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  1. #81
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere View Post
    Well there is that but some people are just really elitist and really only stick with a few people that they consider on their level. Doesn't matter if you're a good player or not. They'll just kick you for almost any reason or may even decline your request outright. It's why I'm starting to not like epic level content myself. Too many people like to act like insulting morons for no good reason.
    they don't just hang out in epics. they are in heroics too. some elitists can be jerks, but so can the newb who logged on today that has played WOW for 10 years or the party leader in a pug you join that rage quits because someone died.

  2. #82
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere View Post
    Well there is that but some people are just really elitist and really only stick with a few people that they consider on their level. Doesn't matter if you're a good player or not. They'll just kick you for almost any reason or may even decline your request outright. It's why I'm starting to not like epic level content myself. Too many people like to act like insulting morons for no good reason.
    It's the internet and the people that think ddo is bad should check out the endgame pugs of other games, the worst elitist here is a polite player in many of them.

  3. #83
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    It's the internet and the people that think ddo is bad should check out the endgame pugs of other games, the worst elitist here is a polite player in many of them.
    That may be, but it's certainly not how it should be. Period. I've had a few bad experiences with elitists, and I can see how some of them can really de-rail the fun for others. People need to remember that they are playing with real people with real feelings. Please don't try to excuse bad behavior just because it is prevalent in some circles.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  4. #84
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBot1234 View Post
    That may be, but it's certainly not how it should be. Period. I've had a few bad experiences with elitists, and I can see how some of them can really de-rail the fun for others. People need to remember that they are playing with real people with real feelings. Please don't try to excuse bad behavior just because it is prevalent in some circles.
    My point is that thinking it will every change is putting on a blindfold to the real nature of human beings and deluding yourself into a sunshine and roses fantasyland.

  5. #85
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere View Post
    Well there is that but some people are just really elitist and really only stick with a few people that they consider on their level. Doesn't matter if you're a good player or not. They'll just kick you for almost any reason or may even decline your request outright. It's why I'm starting to not like epic level content myself.
    Interesting post... You realize the bold parts contradict eachother, right? Granted, there are many elitist types who stick together, but they're not usually pugging. If they're sticking together, how did you get in a group with them to get kicked? If they're sticking together, what pug are they declining you from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere View Post
    Too many people like to act like insulting morons for no good reason.
    And you think elitists have a monopoly on that?

    Here's another question: Who resurrected this? Granted, it's not really a necro, but the thread had languished and I thought died. Seeing the new additions to the conversation, seems it should've been left buried...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  6. #86
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    About elitists hanging out with other alike... it just makes sense. Life is like that: sports, hobby, games, name it.

    Sports: Obviously there are leagues to separate different skill levels so no one call anyone elitist right?

    Hobby: Have you ever tried playing chess with someone that you can beat in 4 moves twice in a row? Not so much fun. There's ton of exemples.

    Games: Especially strategy / shooters (leagues) have rankings so people can play with other of about the same level. This means they can keep progressing and have a challenge.


    Now DDO is a COOP game but it's still the same. From the expectations to the game-talks you can have with like-minded/skilled players... it's just totally different. So much it almost makes no sense to mix them up unless everyone agrees knowing what's going on. It's not like if we never hear non-elitist players saying it sucked to play with the opposite because he did all the job or he called someone a noob. It's the same but the other way around. So what about you bad players just give it up, have fun with your kind... whatever, just stop thinking good (elitist) players are different in their thinking. They're just better players who like to rock in games. They do what's necessary in order to achieve a maximum efficiency. And since they do that, their view about the game isn't the same. That's it, nothing else.

    We're not frigging aliens who are here to spit on others... but we enjoy like-minded people for all the same reasons anyone would in most occasions. Thinking above that is plainly stupid honestly.


    Edit: As much as I don't understand why wouldn't someone want to get better at anything (or everything), as much some think that when it's a game, it's all about relaxing and putting no effort. None is right or wrong. And being good just takes no effort in the long run. It's what you do. It's how you roll heh.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 09-28-2013 at 02:00 AM.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Now that I actually read the OP's post . . .

    The solution to the OP's issue is become a better player and you won't be excluded.

    I'm serious and uncharacteristically not trolling. You need something to aim for in DDO, aiming to be a good enough player to be a good raider is a goal. Without goals you might as well play farmiville.
    Or even possibly more important. Know how good a player you are and how well you know the content. Trying to figure out how things work on one's own in a group with those who already know is a good way to bring out the jerk in people.

  8. #88
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    Based on earlier comments from the producer, he seems to understand the #s with regards to raiding. I don't think releasing U19 without a raid was an accident - probably more of a trial balloon.

    Raids are an important part of the game and necessary in my opinion. Turbine is trying to figure out the right balance. In the past raids have been the only way to get the best items in the game which alienates people like yourself that don't enjoy raiding because of the negative social aspects that are encountered from time to time. So perhaps there will be less disparity between raid items and other items in the future.

    Let's see what Turbine comes up with in January. I am looking forward to it. I enjoy raiding, but like yourself I get frustrated with some of the poor behavior. For the most part I've been able to minimize the negative aspects by avoiding raids if I see people like that in the party. You will find less of the problem people on EN than EH so running solely on EN may be an option for you if you are willing to live with a longer period to get your gear. I ran a 50/50 mix of EH and EN and passed on EE raids completely for the reasons you described.

    Overall I would say you should give raiding another try and stick to EN which weeds out many (but not all) of the difficult people. Also with more raiding experience you will realize many of the critical comments are flat-out foolish.
    Last edited by slarden; 09-28-2013 at 07:58 AM.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  9. #89
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Based on earlier comments from the producer, he seems to understand the #s with regards to raiding. I don't think releasing U19 without a raid was an accident - probably more of a trial balloon.
    A trial that has to be losing them money. I know personally 10 people now that have left the game with the main reason being no raid since u19 launched.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    See one problem with raids on DDO in general is that for many and I mean MANY I myself included as well as most I encounter in game from launch to now, is that DDO is only truly fun as far as playing content its first time through. And people constantly talking about what is to come, and how this raid or taht will be ran are pure SPOILERS. This is why many of us just say raiding in DDO is a flaw that should never have been added no different then all the pve players shout down any addition to PVP development. ALL content needs to be designed to be run through without KNOWING ANYTHING about it. Any mechanics unique to that content need to be clearly and with player immersion in mind. Having to run and re run failing time and again to figure things out because they are not well enough explained in game is bad design for any RPG.

    This is one of the greatest conflicts for know it all first raider types, and run it one for fun and done and get max favor type players. If you want content that will take 69 failures and 6 months to beat, then go play WoW. DDO should not have any content that requires meta gaming to even have a viable chance to beat.

    This is why many just join raids without admitting to first timing it, they dont want to be kicked, nor have any spoilers so they often mute their PC so they cant here the know it all ruining all the surprise value, and often turn off party chat as well, hence why so many mistakenly call casuals solo playing in groups, its not taht they dont want to group, nor do they want to cause conflicts, they just want to be able to enjoy the game without others ruining it for them.

    Again this is why raids, where so called teaching runs are seen as a required form of mentorship, actually hurt DDO. I have known people who quit DDO after VoN came out and experiencing nothing but groups with a PL who had already run it and was constantly spoiling it all for the rest. They would rather not be on a game that made spoilers a mandatory part of play nor expected during grouping and being seen as the bad guy for not letting them.
    The problem with that is it isn't financially viable to make the game you want. So for all the harping on how spoilers are ruining your immersion, you don't seem to take into consideration how your immersion id ruining their fast completion with 19 to go to get a decent shot at what they are looking for. Really, for anyone looking for a one and done immersion experience, static groups are the only reasonable way to go. Expecting PuGers to think of your experience at the expense of their own is just silly. Especially as they are playing the game as it was designed to be played, the financially viable grind style.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    A trial that has to be losing them money. I know personally 10 people now that have left the game with the main reason being no raid since u19 launched.
    In a game where most people never even make level 20, you aren't the norm. Your personal experiences will almost always be the opposite of the average DDO playerbase.

  12. #92
    Community Member dopey69's Avatar
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    Default hey

    by your answer to one of the posts tell me your on thelanis

    there are a lot of great guilds on our server, get to know them ,most have mandates on how to treat non guildies

    always look to see what guild the leader is in first then send him a tell asking if they would mind showing you the ropes in the raid

    it would be a good idea at that time to mention your wife cause ....well most would act a little different knowing a lady is in the group ..........at least till we get to know her

    I have never joined a pug without looking at the leaders guild

  13. #93
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    In a game where most people never even make level 20, you aren't the norm. Your personal experiences will almost always be the opposite of the average DDO playerbase.
    You.
    Are.
    Joking.

    Right? People can't even hit 20?

  14. #94
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    In a game where most people never even make level 20, you aren't the norm. Your personal experiences will almost always be the opposite of the average DDO playerbase.
    BS the people that don't make it to 20 either never stuck around long or are wierd outliers not the norm. Until I hear from Turbine that's true I won't believe that most people are that horrible of players.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    You.
    Are.
    Joking.

    Right? People can't even hit 20?
    The average player (and ones that are likely to spend the most money in the store) play a few hours a week through content that they do not know. That can easily mean one or two quests a night. We've recently begun accepting new players into our guild. I see this firsthand. There's one player that's fairly active, yet has level from 7-9 in the time it's taken me to do an entire life.

  16. #96
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    The average player (and ones that are likely to spend the most money in the store) play a few hours a week through content that they do not know. That can easily mean one or two quests a night. We've recently begun accepting new players into our guild. I see this firsthand. There's one player that's fairly active, yet has level from 7-9 in the time it's taken me to do an entire life.
    First life first toons are longer that's true but you're still saying the norm is only to play for a few months. The slowest player playing for a couple hours every other night will ding 20 in six months unless they never leave korthos.

  17. #97
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    The average player (and ones that are likely to spend the most money in the store) play a few hours a week through content that they do not know. That can easily mean one or two quests a night. We've recently begun accepting new players into our guild. I see this firsthand. There's one player that's fairly active, yet has level from 7-9 in the time it's taken me to do an entire life.
    Strange. My first life was.. different. Two weeks for 1-20. Nothing special, roughly as long as it takes me to do a legend life (seeming I spend most of my time afking for various reasons).

    Got from 1-15 in a week, then took another week for 15-20.

  18. #98
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Strange. My first life was.. different. Two weeks for 1-20. Nothing special, roughly as long as it takes me to do a legend life (seeming I spend most of my time afking for various reasons).

    Got from 1-15 in a week, then took another week for 15-20.
    I've been thinking about his statements, the only way he's right is if most people are true f2p and spend time grinding then deleting to get favor for tp, but then they're not Turbine's best customers like he claims.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I've been thinking about his statements, the only way he's right is if most people are true f2p and spend time grinding then deleting to get favor for tp, but then they're not Turbine's best customers like he claims.
    Not at all. Waiting for a group to fill and going through new content takes a long time. Rebuilding gimp builds takes a long time. I think some people forget how hard this game is without gear and plat and the ability to solo and a support system.

  20. #100
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Not at all. Waiting for a group to fill and going through new content takes a long time. Rebuilding gimp builds takes a long time. I think some people forget how hard this game is without gear and plat and the ability to solo and a support system.
    So they don't know how to look at the forums, the wiki, or ask friends / guildies once they meet them for build help/advice? I agree that it takes longer on a first toon but people get there in probably six months if they aren't horrible and don't quit. Many do it even faster than that.

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