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  1. #1
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    Default Bard lvling build

    Hi all,

    my monk is almost 20 and I want to TR again to get a bard past life. I want an evasion build with mainly bard lvls and trapping would be a huge plus. I have a triple pos GS maul and 2 light2 khopeshes as my weapons for 12+. I was thinking something like bard13/fighter or barb5/rogue2. Probably a WF as Race. What would give me the fastest lvling spec?

    Toons - Ziffin / Hirtz / Mheka / Duskh
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  2. #2
    Community Member A_Sheep2's Avatar
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    My only question is whether you can afford infinite haste potions?

    When I have been leveling, I've been going 1 Rog (for skills), then 7 Bard to get to haste. At that point, 8 bard seemed like the best option for a 3rd level 3 spell and the +1 to inspire courage. Then, add in 1 ftr (for the feat and proficiencies), then 1 rog for evasion. Beyond that, I guess it's up to you. I went 16bard/2ftr/2rog, but you're probably "better off" with 14 bard (to catch the next bump to inspire courage) then 2 or 4 each of fighter and rogue (depending on whether you'll be soloing or grouping more where the backstab DPS will be very useful.

    With a bard, TWF used to be a TON higher DPS than THF since the songs boost both hands equally, but I don't know how to calculate it anymore with the glancing blow formulas having changed so much. I am guessing TWF will still be a lot higher.

    TLDNR:

    Go
    1 Rog
    2-9 Bard
    10 Ftr
    11 Rog
    12-20, any!

    Levelling a str-based battle-bard is one of the most enjoyable experiences in the game. Great defenses with displacement, perma-hasted, self-healing, and good DPS.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehenry03 View Post
    Hi all,

    my monk is almost 20 and I want to TR again to get a bard past life. I want an evasion build with mainly bard lvls and trapping would be a huge plus. I have a triple pos GS maul and 2 light2 khopeshes as my weapons for 12+. I was thinking something like bard13/fighter or barb5/rogue2. Probably a WF as Race. What would give me the fastest lvling spec?
    I know this is a bit old, but I've been milling around my bard life lately also. Never played bard, so I could be way off base with this, but these are just my impressions.

    I've been thinking of trying out a 14 bard/3rog/3clr. AP's might get spread a bit thin, so I gotta actually crunch the numbers to see what you can and can't have, but this combo has a bit of everything. My only question is how effective it'll be at any one thing. Also, this may not work so well with your GS weapons, if you're really set on using them.

    Cleric will give you things like some extra healing ability (more positive spell power, divine healing, divine cleansing, +to positive caster levels, etc.) and also a better wand mastery than bard offers (bonus to offensive DC's *and* increased damage for things like cure wands) from Radiant servant tree, or melee ability from warpriest (Inflame and divine might probably being of the biggest value things).

    Rogue will give you lots of options for how you want to melee. Assassin tree can give dex to damage with kukris and daggers (or any other weapon that uses dex for attack, if you take weapon finesse), along with some handy poison attacks to lower saves and deal extra damage. If you want THF+bludgeon so you can at least get some use out of your maul, you could focus a bit more in acrobat for qstaff damage along with some extra defense (dodge, tumble, lower threat gen), and of course mechanic gives you wonderful skill bonuses (all trapping skills, up to +3 UMD, and up to +6 action boost to skills).

    Like I said, I haven't played through this so I really can't say whether I'm stretching myself to thin on it, or if it's a level split that would even be that effective. It certainly does try to be a bit of a jack of all trades, but my impression is that that's sort of the point of bards.

    A build that I saw someone play that seemed to work very well for them was 2fighter/1fvs/rest bard. You could probably replace fighter with rog, play around with how many levels you take in it and still be effective.

  4. #4
    Community Member Steevye's Avatar
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    I'd avoid using barb as a splash simply because you'll lack any ability to cast while raged, so fighter is almost always a better option. I like the sound of the rogue splash myself, of course this depends on playstyle. Seems to me that while a dwarf takes a penalty to charisma, the "throw your weight around" racial enhancement would be worthwhile for the battle bard. Allows you to max out your con (hp is a bard's weakness due to their d6 roll) and use that stat to help you deal better dmg.
    “Bodies wear out to remind us they are temporary, and force us to spend more thought on our spirits”
    ? Morgan Llywelyn, Bard: The Odyssey of the Irish

  5. #5
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    I don't really build for TRing, but wouldn't something like:
    Bard 10 Fighter 6 Rogue 4 work well?

    Bard 10-Cure Critical Wounds, Dimensional Door
    Fighter 6=Feats and DPS
    Rogue 4=Evasion, DPS, traps if you care

    I'd go TWF on this build
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
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  6. #6
    Community Member Steevye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    I don't really build for TRing, but wouldn't something like:
    Bard 10 Fighter 6 Rogue 4 work well?

    Bard 10-Cure Critical Wounds, Dimensional Door
    Fighter 6=Feats and DPS
    Rogue 4=Evasion, DPS, traps if you care

    I'd go TWF on this build
    I guess the only real question I have is what would 4 rogue and 6 fighter really offer over 2 rogue/4ftr, taking the extra 4 bard levels? And depending if you want to go epic or not will really depend on how much bard you really want to stack into the build. At level 21, Inspire Excellence is available with 20 pts invested in perform and 15 bard levels (I'm currently working on a 16/2/2 combo myself with intent to get this feat at 21). Not to mention some of the better spells become available in the mid teens, and considering how useful Otto's Irresistable is, I'm not sure whether I'd want to go any lower than 16 bard levels. If you have zero intention of using the spell, that would change the equation.

    Either way, if you did just take 2 lvls of ftr/rogue a piece, you're still getting an extra feat and evasion, as well as (if you take rogue @ 1) a bunch of additional skill points to toss around.

    Just my thoughts on the topic.
    “Bodies wear out to remind us they are temporary, and force us to spend more thought on our spirits”
    ? Morgan Llywelyn, Bard: The Odyssey of the Irish

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steevye View Post
    I guess the only real question I have is what would 4 rogue and 6 fighter really offer over 2 rogue/4ftr, taking the extra 4 bard levels? And depending if you want to go epic or not will really depend on how much bard you really want to stack into the build. At level 21, Inspire Excellence is available with 20 pts invested in perform and 15 bard levels (I'm currently working on a 16/2/2 combo myself with intent to get this feat at 21). Not to mention some of the better spells become available in the mid teens, and considering how useful Otto's Irresistable is, I'm not sure whether I'd want to go any lower than 16 bard levels. If you have zero intention of using the spell, that would change the equation.

    Either way, if you did just take 2 lvls of ftr/rogue a piece, you're still getting an extra feat and evasion, as well as (if you take rogue @ 1) a bunch of additional skill points to toss around.

    Just my thoughts on the topic.

    I thought this was for TRing for bard pastlife, so didn't think about 20+ whatsoever. So otto's is irrelevant, cos you wouldn't get it til 20odd and CC is pretty much irrelevant in Heroic anyway.

    5 fighter is for tier 5 kensai enhancements, so took a 6th fighter for an extra feat.

    Same as rogue 4, more dps than rogue 2.

    It's a build for someone who doesn't want to play a bard. I could see taking more bard levels for GH, but I'd probably just clickie or scroll it.
    Server: Thelanis
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  8. #8
    Community Member Steevye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    I thought this was for TRing for bard pastlife, so didn't think about 20+ whatsoever. So otto's is irrelevant, cos you wouldn't get it til 20odd and CC is pretty much irrelevant in Heroic anyway.

    5 fighter is for tier 5 kensai enhancements, so took a 6th fighter for an extra feat.

    Same as rogue 4, more dps than rogue 2.

    It's a build for someone who doesn't want to play a bard. I could see taking more bard levels for GH, but I'd probably just clickie or scroll it.
    Duh, I had a brainfart. My bad.

    If you don't want to play a bard that would be the smoothest route to take, or just dump the rogue altogether and go more fighter (?). Depending on how much aggro you'd amass, I'd probably be more keen on skipping the rogue (considering you'd not be getting any sneak dmg without a decent bluff and/or deception item). 8-10 fighter levels is a pretty solid amount of extra feats and what not, which to me seems more attractive for a heroic only melee build. If you're not casting, you'll use all your SP for buffs and heals, and should have adequate supply in that area to not really need evasion (especially with the considerable HP increase).
    “Bodies wear out to remind us they are temporary, and force us to spend more thought on our spirits”
    ? Morgan Llywelyn, Bard: The Odyssey of the Irish

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_Sheep2 View Post
    My only question is whether you can afford infinite haste potions?


    Levelling a str-based battle-bard is one of the most enjoyable experiences in the game. Great defenses with displacement, perma-hasted, self-healing, and good DPS.
    I didn't use a single haste potion last life --- When u one or two shot everything up til lvl 18-19, melee attack speed is not a major factor.

    Recipe for any melee //
    1. THF
    2. pick PA. Cleave. Gr Cleave.

    thats it!

    @OP: If you disagree with A_sheep2's second quote -- your doing it wrong. Go half orc or human. try to get quicken and maximize asap, now your god mode.

    J i c h a e l
    -&- D i l l i n j a h


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehenry03 View Post
    Hi all,

    my monk is almost 20 and I want to TR again to get a bard past life. I want an evasion build with mainly bard lvls and trapping would be a huge plus. I have a triple pos GS maul and 2 light2 khopeshes as my weapons for 12+. I was thinking something like bard13/fighter or barb5/rogue2. Probably a WF as Race. What would give me the fastest lvling spec?
    Just a suggestion:

    WF 12 Bard/6 Ranger/2 Rogue

    36pt: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 12, Cha 10 [adjust according to tomes]

    Feats: Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Khopesh, Improved Critical: Slashing, Maximize, GTWF, Quicken
    [Mithral Body, Extend, IC: Ranged]

    This is to fulfill the requirements of WF, 2 LitII khopeshes, mainly bard levels, trapping and evasion.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steevye View Post
    Duh, I had a brainfart. My bad.

    If you don't want to play a bard that would be the smoothest route to take, or just dump the rogue altogether and go more fighter (?). ).
    Rogue 2 nets you evasion, which I reckon is pretty useful for leveling, potentially trapping with int investment, sneak attack

    Rogue 4 nets you uncanny dodge (25% dodge clickie), more skill points for less int investment if you want trapping, execute and killer, which look like potentially useful enhancements, and sneak attack

    Fighter 8/10 can grab you 1-2 more feats, so that may be useful depending on what you are after.

    Personally I'd want evasion on a quick leveller, and would probably stick with the rogue 4 class split due to the aforementioned bonuses.
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  12. #12
    Community Member Steevye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    Rogue 2 nets you evasion, which I reckon is pretty useful for leveling, potentially trapping with int investment, sneak attack

    Rogue 4 nets you uncanny dodge (25% dodge clickie), more skill points for less int investment if you want trapping, execute and killer, which look like potentially useful enhancements, and sneak attack

    Fighter 8/10 can grab you 1-2 more feats, so that may be useful depending on what you are after.

    Personally I'd want evasion on a quick leveller, and would probably stick with the rogue 4 class split due to the aforementioned bonuses.
    I think my charisma based casting bard bias shows through even when I try not to let it.

    Evasion is definitely useful for running through traps and avoiding AOEs, and I've only ever built a single trapper in the game (I don't really enjoy it), so I'd use evasion to avoid spending skill points in that area. I forgot uncanny dodge as well since the only time I've ever used it as a feat was with (you guessed it) my trapper :P

    I'm pretty partial to the additions kensai adds to your preferred weapon and some of the low hanging fruit in stalwart isn't bad for overall hardiness (in a build where rogue and bard won't do much other than keep you kinda squishy). I definitely like the extra feats, because if you're going to build anything that can actually kill something, having the full on PA-IC-CL-GCL-toughness combo is nice. Might allow for some tactical focus too, if you decide to go that route and what not.

    As far as speed leveling is concerned, I'm leaning toward the fighter-heavy side due to the zerging ability it allows. Seems like having sneak attack would require some more time to really make effective and as long as your heals are okish, more HP means "more survivability". The trend also seems to lend to the idea that speed leveling = not disabling traps, but I don't really play this way so I'm certainly no expert. I just memorise trap locations and run!
    “Bodies wear out to remind us they are temporary, and force us to spend more thought on our spirits”
    ? Morgan Llywelyn, Bard: The Odyssey of the Irish

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steevye View Post
    As far as speed leveling is concerned, I'm leaning toward the fighter-heavy side due to the zerging ability it allows. Seems like having sneak attack would require some more time to really make effective and as long as your heals are okish, more HP means "more survivability". The trend also seems to lend to the idea that speed leveling = not disabling traps, but I don't really play this way so I'm certainly no expert. I just memorise trap locations and run!
    I can't be bothered with traps myself.

    Sneak Attack is really a byproduct of taking rogue for evasion.

    Note, I wouldn't play this bard myself - I do pastlifes to improve my bard, not the other way around!
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

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