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  1. #1
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    Default Devs: Why did you increase min.Lvs- of old bound to account rings from Lord of stone?

    Hi,

    I nearly fainted to see, that my low lv. bound to account rings farmed hours over hours from the Lord of stone chain now have high
    minimum lvs (9-11). We all farmed them because they were special BECAUSE had low min.Lvs like 2-3.
    And now you take all this away without even mention it on the release notes?

    Or is it all a bug?
    What can we do?
    Best regards
    Tarinia

  2. #2
    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    The got lifted to their new levels when they changed how the prefixs and suffixes of items contribute to their enhancement value. It was a whole work of the entire random generated loot. It's WAI as far as I understand. But seriously, +6 "blah" ring for lowbies, come on you can't tell me you didn't think that was a bit off?

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus-Hawkeye View Post
    The got lifted to their new levels when they changed how the prefixs and suffixes of items contribute to their enhancement value. It was a whole work of the entire random generated loot. It's WAI as far as I understand. But seriously, +6 "blah" ring for lowbies, come on you can't tell me you didn't think that was a bit off?
    it is wai now, however as far as your people should have known better argument I give you

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Vibrant_Purp...nsuppressed%29

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Pink_and_Gre...nsuppressed%29

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Incandescent...nsuppressed%29

    Only a small difference in level and a small difference in power as well.

  4. #4
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    Default not reallly fair:-(

    HI,

    I understand, that magic items are always breaking the normal rules in some way or another.
    The more they break the rules or do something new never seen before, they are felt as "magic", "special" or "rare".
    These rings dropped only after a full chain and in such a random way, that powerfull effects were seldom seen.
    The only reason to go after them was "there low minimum lv".

    No- I dont understand, why they have to change something special and rare into vendor trash.
    That is not fun and fun is the only thing we play this game and pay money for it.
    If these rings work not as intended, then they had to give us advice long before the hunt starts.

    Please look into it- there is not reason to change it in such a way- look at the ion stones. Same thing: you only want
    to have them, because they can be used from lv5 on. If the change that, it will be unfair in the extreme, too.

    Best regards
    Tarinia

  5. #5
    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    it is wai now, however as far as your people should have known better argument I give you

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Vibrant_Purp...nsuppressed%29

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Pink_and_Gre...nsuppressed%29

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Incandescent...nsuppressed%29

    Only a small difference in level and a small difference in power as well.
    Fair point. But those aren't randomly generated. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really a fan of the new way they're doing it, But I can understand why they'd want to streamline the whole system. Unfortunately, stuff we've been taking advantage of got caught in the storm too. I had a bunch of those rings too. I was sad to see them go, but I don't consider it "unfair' that they changed them.

    And Tarinia, you got any festival icy burst weapons? Because the ones from the first festival had their levels bumped up too....

  6. #6
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    They declared it was not wai back then, didn't fix the current ones but stopped them from dropping, then declared it was not wai again recently, and fixed it.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #7
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus-Hawkeye View Post
    Fair point. But those aren't randomly generated. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really a fan of the new way they're doing it, But I can understand why they'd want to streamline the whole system. Unfortunately, stuff we've been taking advantage of got caught in the storm too. I had a bunch of those rings too. I was sad to see them go, but I don't consider it "unfair' that they changed them.

    And Tarinia, you got any festival icy burst weapons? Because the ones from the first festival had their levels bumped up too....
    I get they decided it wasn't wai, I didn't even have any but I feel bad for those that farmed them as I'm pretty sure that when they fixed them dropping there was a dev post saying they could keep ones that had already been farmed. (might be wrong but I think there was) It's the same kind of bs as them saying that they'd never wipe ed xp when it came out and trying to put forth that etr proposal they had first. I don't like liars.

  8. #8
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    you are right- I had also lots of ice burst items and only crafted them because they not increase the minimum Lv.
    It seems that farming and building something in DDO is not really usefull. Just wait half a year and they will just
    change the old ones and new random loot is even much better.
    In my case modifying something retroactively destroy much trust into the game.
    It is hard enough, that something usefull today is vendor trash after the next lv increase.
    But also changing the last old usefull items to trash is just not nesessary and will give only negative response
    and a feel of "loosing trust in this game meaning it will not matter as much to me as before".

    Its the same in pen and paper- nearly every player will jump into the face of the GM if he modifies a already long used
    magic item just for "streamlining" purpose. In the past we lost players just for such mistakes.
    Everybody should weight the fun vs. formalismus factor carefully or he will just destroy somethimg valuable to many people and
    in the end it is only valuable to the devs...

    Never been much arguing here but has been never so disappointed...
    Best regards
    Tarinia

  9. #9
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    LOL from the start it was a KNOWN bug, those who farmed them no different then any other exploiter, and in fact far worse as so many who abused these rings seem to take the position of victim rather then abuser.

    I for example am using on my recent TR the (FIGHT CLUB #!) to have a for me different and fun new way to replay the content from 1-20. Many see this as a sin so great I should be perma banned from DDO but imo is far less an abuse of the system then these rings simply because the steps to acheive this power I am playing with involved much time at cap earnng fate points, and the cost of a character well made already to the TR altar to create this new and different way to play for me. The ringploiters just had to farm easy content and hope for abit of random loot luck to create blatantly OP starting gear kits, that those same players would then start calling low lvl content pointless because absolutely no gear prior to lvl 12 would be even potentially more then mere vendor trash.

    Why you say this cost turbine your trust OP, it was something that helped earn mine back. Just something for you to consider. That others might truly appreciate and be thankful for the removal of such OP twink gear.

  10. #10
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    those who farmed them no different then any other exploiter, and in fact far worse as so many who abused these rings seem to take the position of victim rather then abuser.
    It was a very simple and very obvious bug that Turbine allowed to exist for a period of time. Even when they finally fixed the bug producing them they didn't fix the rings that had already dropped. To me this indicates Turbine didn't care that we were doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    Why you say this cost turbine your trust OP, it was something that helped earn mine back. Just something for you to consider. That others might truly appreciate and be thankful for the removal of such OP twink gear.
    How exactly was it overpowered? Simple answer really - it wasn't. Removal of them didn't affect my leveling process in the slightest and my characters don't feel weaker in the slightest.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 09-21-2013 at 12:50 PM.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  11. #11
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    It was a very simple and very obvious bug that Turbine allowed to exist for a period of time. Even when they finally fixed the bug producing them they didn't fix the rings that had already dropped. To me this indicates Turbine didn't care that we were doing it.


    How exactly was it overpowered? Simple answer really - it wasn't. Removal of them didn't affect my leveling process in the slightest and my characters don't feel weaker in the slightest.
    Don't bother if someone farmed for it he wants them to quit the game. He's been spewing bile everywhere.

  12. #12
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    It was a very simple and very obvious bug that Turbine allowed to exist for a period of time. Even when they finally fixed the bug producing them they didn't fix the rings that had already dropped. To me this indicates Turbine didn't care that we were doing it.
    To me it indicated they did care because they fixed the droppings.

    But to go through the ENTIRE database to fix a very small subset that could have larger issues providing they screwed something up was not worth the cost value at the time. They simply couldn't show the risk vs gain of such a small issue.

    Now when it became budgeted to change the entire loot system, they ended up getting fixed to be WAI as a side effect of that endeavor. Welcome to program management.

  13. #13
    Community Member BoBo2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    LOL from the start it was a KNOWN bug, those who farmed them no different then any other exploiter, and in fact far worse as so many who abused these rings seem to take the position of victim rather then abuser.
    This is not factually accurate.

    The rings were never a bug, never an exploit, and always WAI.

    The were quest chain end rewards, bound to account, with significantly decreased durability that had no ML as designed. They were intended to increase sales of the pack and they did just that (just like challenge xp was initially very good to encourage sales, only to be nerfed later).

    The Devs decided (as is their right) to remove them from the game after some irrational whining from forumites who felt they were too powerful. (You will notice that few run that chain more than once per life now, if at all)

    A lot of people (significantly after the fact) can't believe that the rings were anything but a bug, but that simply isn't true. There are also old ML 8 shroud weapons that are working as intended even though the levels on later Shroud items were raised to 11 and 12.

    Are no ML +6 stat rings necessary? Of course not. They are also not game breaking. They should not have been "fixed" but that was within Turbine's rights. It was not, however, necessary, and it was a pretty crappy way to treat loyal players.

    ...

  14. #14
    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I get they decided it wasn't wai, I didn't even have any but I feel bad for those that farmed them as I'm pretty sure that when they fixed them dropping there was a dev post saying they could keep ones that had already been farmed. (might be wrong but I think there was) It's the same kind of bs as them saying that they'd never wipe ed xp when it came out and trying to put forth that etr proposal they had first. I don't like liars.
    I'd like to see that post. You have a valid point and I can see that side of it as I said I am a bit sad to see mine go into the decon pile. But lying? I don't see it like that. I feel closer to the sentiment of Karavek's post. I actually like the fact they're "evening it all out". I didn't even know they were a known bug at the time, but the moment I saw them I knew something was not right. Did it stop me from using them? Nope. Did I go out of my way to farm the bejeebers out of the content till my eyes bled? No. Would I be more upset if I had farmed more of the rings? Probably, but I would still feel the same way at the end of the day though.

    I may not agree with the directions and changes Turbine see fit to take the game towards, but I always expect changes both good and bad. It is the nature of games of this type. I just don't choose to get bent out of shape by such an obvious glitch being resolved retroactively.

  15. #15
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinia View Post
    Devs: Why did you increase min.Lvs- of old bound to account rings from Lord of stone?
    Because nothing gold can stay, Ponyboy.
    53461

  16. #16
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    Default A story from another MMO

    Once upon a time there was another MMO called City of Heroes, an amazing game so well designed its loss will forever blacken the name of the company that killed it off for no reason.

    For many years there was a bug/exploit there involving power enhancments commonly called Hami Os due to them coming only from the games first raid on a mighty giant pile of protoplasmic goo called the hamidon. These HOs where bugged and allowing for buffs to powers they where not meant to buff, and became a popular staple in those who min maxxed to become in their eyes the very best of the games population. They would farm the raid regularly, and did so inspite of devs on the forums mentioning these effects where not WAI and would one day be fixxed though they said it would not be a quick or easy fix and might be a long time coming.

    Years passed. Many began to treat these as simply better types of power ups that had to be farmed from a raid and rightfully where superior. Then finally the fix came, and the tears from the QQing exploiters was so very sweet it was nearly orgasmic ecstasy to witness. It was not as if they even had power that could not be fairly built up, they had just taken the darkside path to it and now felt as if it was stolen from them rather then they who had been stealing it from the system.

    However it also had the lasting effect of tarnishing many of those who QQeds forum and in game reps as once it became known that they had been only among the upper echelons of the player bases power spectrum by using such cheap and dirty paths to power. Those who had earned their place there fairly had no tolerance nor love for such who used and abused but only if it was because they saw it as perfectly ok, if they where one who did it and said yeah I know it wasnt WAI I was just enjoying the ride while it lasted and already have my alt power up plan in place, we would simply nod and smile, understanding they had not done so to be powerful only, but to experience something they knew would not last.

    So in the end, its only those who treated this like WAI and expect to be treated like victims for losing it who imo deserve mockery, those who simply enjoyed the ride knowing it was a roller coaster that would eventually have to stop are just gamers trying to have fun.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Because nothing gold can stay, Ponyboy.
    We are all dust in the wind. Was always a line I liked more but who didnt dig them adorable little greaser kids. Was probably Ralphs best role even beyond the classic karate kids.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBo2020 View Post
    This is not factually accurate.

    The rings were never a bug, never an exploit, and always WAI.

    The were quest chain end rewards, bound to account, with significantly decreased durability that had no ML as designed. They were intended to increase sales of the pack and they did just that (just like challenge xp was initially very good to encourage sales, only to be nerfed later).

    The Devs decided (as is their right) to remove them from the game after some irrational whining from forumites who felt they were too powerful. (You will notice that few run that chain more than once per life now, if at all)

    A lot of people (significantly after the fact) can't believe that the rings were anything but a bug, but that simply isn't true. There are also old ML 8 shroud weapons that are working as intended even though the levels on later Shroud items were raised to 11 and 12.

    Are no ML +6 stat rings necessary? Of course not. They are also not game breaking. They should not have been "fixed" but that was within Turbine's rights. It was not, however, necessary, and it was a pretty crappy way to treat loyal players.
    LOL bringing up the lvl 8 GS gear is not something one should do as a positive. All one has to do is pug and see the negative impact that occurs when a newb player runs something like an at lvl von 5/6 with one of those guys who will when it comes time to face big red say everyone else just stand back, cleric focus on me, i got this, to understand how badly those old GS items need to be either made min lvl 12, or outright removed. Because they are a bigger game breaking exploit then anything else from the lvl 8+ heroic game content.

    honestly GS gear in general is so grossly OP for its lvl range it should be more like lvl 18 min, and something you get when your about ready to leave the vale and be done with the shroud not something you do at cap to twink your future lives, or because it is so OP it will rival many named items from much higher lvl content.

    Loyal players dont abuse things like this and then complain, that would be a disloyal player who abuses and exploits at every opportunity.

  19. #19
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    LOL bringing up the lvl 8 GS gear is not something one should do as a positive. All one has to do is pug and see the negative impact that occurs when a newb player runs something like an at lvl von 5/6 with one of those guys who will when it comes time to face big red say everyone else just stand back, cleric focus on me, i got this, to understand how badly those old GS items need to be either made min lvl 12, or outright removed. Because they are a bigger game breaking exploit then anything else from the lvl 8+ heroic game content.

    honestly GS gear in general is so grossly OP for its lvl range it should be more like lvl 18 min, and something you get when your about ready to leave the vale and be done with the shroud not something you do at cap to twink your future lives, or because it is so OP it will rival many named items from much higher lvl content.

    Loyal players dont abuse things like this and then complain, that would be a disloyal player who abuses and exploits at every opportunity.
    Had you said this three years ago you might have a point. Right now relative to the huge power creep that has been introduced to the game (for good or bad), GS is not OP for the level it can be acquired and used.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #20
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBo2020 View Post
    This is not factually accurate.

    The rings were never a bug, never an exploit, and always WAI.

    The were quest chain end rewards, bound to account, with significantly decreased durability that had no ML as designed. They were intended to increase sales of the pack and they did just that (just like challenge xp was initially very good to encourage sales, only to be nerfed later).

    The Devs decided (as is their right) to remove them from the game after some irrational whining from forumites who felt they were too powerful. (You will notice that few run that chain more than once per life now, if at all)

    A lot of people (significantly after the fact) can't believe that the rings were anything but a bug, but that simply isn't true. There are also old ML 8 shroud weapons that are working as intended even though the levels on later Shroud items were raised to 11 and 12.

    Are no ML +6 stat rings necessary? Of course not. They are also not game breaking. They should not have been "fixed" but that was within Turbine's rights. It was not, however, necessary, and it was a pretty crappy way to treat loyal players.
    When the devs made them stop dropping they declared it a bug, but did not fix the ones that were currently in the game, so they weren't always WAI. People farmed them heavily in order to get them before the patch went live, because it was well known that after the patch went live they would stop dropping with no ML.

    The real issue here is that they leave this stuff in the game for as long as they do, so people conjecture it as WAI, even though it is not.
    Last edited by Chai; 09-21-2013 at 02:11 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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