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  1. #1
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Default Assassinate needs the Quivering Punch Treatment

    I think the DDO developers have done an excellent job of making Quivering Punch a useful ability with the Update 19 changes that allow shattering items to increase the DC, and I think it's time to give Assassinate the same treatment. My Assassin is retired right now, but my half-assed calculations tell me that a DC of 60 is around what an intelligence based Assassin can achieve without anything silly like a yugo pot or a +2 to all stats bard song.

    If my calculations are completely off and your Assassin is able to get a low 70s Assassinate DC, then please let me know so I can revise or remove this thread. Otherwise, I think a 70+ DC is what should be attainable for an int based, full sneak mode, pure level 20 Rogue Assassin.

    Getting a tactics bonus to Assassinate like Quivering Punch got would probably make the DC too high since Assassinate has a higher starting point than Quivering Punch, but it needs a boost from somewhere in my opinion.
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 09-20-2013 at 12:38 PM.

  2. #2

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    Its really depressing to me to see people complain that we need to be able to raise our DC's instead of needing to reduce mob saves.
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸A R C H A N G E L S °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸
    Thelanis

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  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    No it doesn't

    QP should be nerfed.

    I'm sorry but the current monk love is borderline disgusting.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    No it doesn't

    QP should be nerfed.

    I'm sorry but the current monk love is borderline disgusting.
    Agreed. Also, measore the foe is a "boost"? What do you do after using up your assassinate? Pike in sneak for the next 15s to keep the dc boost? Way to kill active playstyle turbine...
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Agreed. Also, measore the foe is a "boost"? What do you do after using up your assassinate? Pike in sneak for the next 15s to keep the dc boost? Way to kill active playstyle turbine...
    Assassins kill patiently and quietly.

    So, yes, assassins do not charge into a group of mobs and flail around and kill.
    So, yes, you're supposed to kill a single target, sneak away, wait, kill the next target.

    Anyone who doesn't understand that, simply plays damage dealing rogue with assassin enhancements, but not a true assassin.
    Last edited by DunkleNymphe; 09-20-2013 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    Assassins kill patiently and quietly.

    So, yes, assassins do not charge into a group of mobs and flail around and kill.
    So, yes, you're supposed to kill a single target, sneak away, wait, kill the next target.

    Anyone who doesn't understand that, simply plays damage dealing rogue with assassin enhancements, but not a true assassin.
    You can kill more mobs in Assassinate's 15 second cooldown than you can with Assassinate. You should still be using Assassinate whenever possible to kill mobs, but not when other people are in combat.

    Measure the Foe is only good when shortmanning (which is the best way to play DDO: full, balanced parties are boring as hell), soloing, or when you're walking through a hallway and there's no mobs around.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    Assassins kill patiently and quietly.

    So, yes, assassins do not charge into a group of mobs and flail around and kill.
    So, yes, you're supposed to kill a single target, sneak away, wait, kill the next target.

    Anyone who doesn't understand that, simply plays damage dealing rogue with assassin enhancements, but not a true assassin.
    So a true assassin just pikes around and presses a single button every 15s?

    During this 15s he does not use scrolls for healing/rezing/buffing ppl, do traps or sneak attack mobs?

    You know I've seen such assassins a few times in game and we all though they were newbs. But now i know those are real assassins - thanks for clarifying.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    /not signed.
    Assassinate works fine as it is.
    And what you're looking for is already there: Measure The Foe.

    My rogue is only lvl 25 and not too focused on INT - but she get's a 53 DC already.
    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    Assassins kill patiently and quietly.

    So, yes, assassins do not charge into a group of mobs and flail around and kill.
    So, yes, you're supposed to kill a single target, sneak away, wait, kill the next target.

    Anyone who doesn't understand that, simply plays damage dealing rogue with assassin enhancements, but not a true assassin.
    So when doing anything that is actually challenging, you sneak up to it, fail to assassinate because 53 DC will very rarely work on anything EE GH and beyond, and then you pike the rest of the time? That is awesome, really.

    I am glad to see that you understand playing rogues so well!

  9. #9
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Its really depressing to me to see people complain that we need to be able to raise our DC's instead of needing to reduce mob saves.
    That would have been the intelligent way to address some legit issue this game had in EE.

    Of course Turbine chose a different course of action.

  10. #10
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That would have been the intelligent way to address some legit issue this game had in EE.

    Of course Turbine chose a different course of action.
    I disagree with you. Not because you are wrong, but simply because someone should always disagree with you on principal.
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    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  11. #11
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Does the Combat Mastery +X add to assassinate DC?

    If not, it should.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseMilk View Post
    Does the Combat Mastery +X add to assassinate DC?

    If not, it should.
    Only item in the game that adds to assassinate dc is epic Midnight Greetings for +2...
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  13. #13
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseMilk View Post
    Does the Combat Mastery +X add to assassinate DC?

    If not, it should.
    Good idea.

    I feel like the DC could use a little bit more in addition to that.

  14. #14
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    I disagree with you. Not because you are wrong, but simply because someone should always disagree with you on principal.
    Damn I need more signature space!!!!!!!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    I think the DDO developers have done an excellent job of making Quivering Punch a useful ability with the Update 19 changes that allow shattering items to increase the DC, and I think it's time to give Assassinate the same treatment. My Assassin is retired right now, but my half-assed calculations tell me that a DC of 60 is around what an intelligence based Assassin can achieve without anything silly like a yugo pot or a +2 to all stats bard song.

    If my calculations are completely off and your Assassin is able to get a low 70s Assassinate DC, then please let me know so I can revise or remove this thread. Otherwise, I think a 70+ DC is what should be attainable for an int based, full sneak mode, pure level 20 Rogue Assassin.

    Getting a tactics bonus to Assassinate like Quivering Punch got would probably make the DC too high since Assassinate has a higher starting point than Quivering Punch, but it needs a boost from somewhere in my opinion.
    /not signed.
    Assassinate works fine as it is.
    And what you're looking for is already there: Measure The Foe.

    My rogue is only lvl 25 and not too focused on INT - but she get's a 53 DC already.

  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    /not signed.
    Assassinate works fine as it is.
    And what you're looking for is already there: Measure The Foe.

    My rogue is only lvl 25 and not too focused on INT - but she get's a 53 DC already.
    You realize lousy monks can get a QP DC of about 75?

  17. #17
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You realize lousy monks can get a QP DC of about 75?
    Is this overstating things a bit? My dwarf 18m/2f with 2 fighter past lives (+3 tactics DCs from dwarf tree, +3 tactics DCs from kensai, +2 tactics DCs from fighter past lives, fully wisdom based) should be able to hit around this number when 28 capped, geared, and in water stance - not factoring in anything that I wouldn't normally use like alchemical weapons, yugo pots, epic wisdom feats, and cloak of the bear instead of spare hand or new tactics ring. Sure, you can theorycraft higher, but in practice I think you have to be extremely QP dedicated to achieve a 75.

    Anyway, I'm always more in favor of boosting characters up instead of nerfing characters down to achieve parity.
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 09-20-2013 at 01:39 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Is this overstating things a bit? .
    No.

  19. #19
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    /not signed.
    Assassinate works fine as it is.
    And what you're looking for is already there: Measure The Foe.

    My rogue is only lvl 25 and not too focused on INT - but she get's a 53 DC already.
    I'm aware of how Measure the Foe works. That is why I specified that a rogue in full stealth mode should be able to hit certain DC's.

    An Assassinate DC of 53 or (or slightly above that at level 28) is not going to come anywhere near cutting it in high level ee quests.

  20. #20
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Up to level 20 assassinate works good enough on an int based rogue, can't tell about epic levels as that char tr-ed immediately.

    If you go the str route and splash other classes on it won't work so good.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

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