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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Sorry, but that is horrid advice. in addition to low strength, they carry capacity is further reduced due to their size. starting that low will get you into encumbered territory often. He'll be leaving any armor he finds in chests behind. not to mention getting helpless due to ray of enfeeblement and later in game symbol of weakness.


    A rapier wielding halfling has no synergy with the current enhancement system. If you are building a dex Rogue, you not only need to use dex for to hit, you want to use it for damage as well. In todays DDO, that's Kukris, Daggers and Quarterstaffs.

    regardless, the to hit penalty from dual wielding rapiers isnt really anything to worry about and you wouldnt be able to take Epic Toughness anyway starting with a 14 Con.

    I'm not convinced the build is the reason the OP is dying in end game.... Getting dead is more often a mistake or failing behind the keyboard... especially if its "excessive"
    well first you do know any and all weapons in DDO now can be potentially used for dex based fighting if they wish to build for it.

    First you do know the assassin core ability gives it for daggs and kuks but will also extend the dex to dmg benny to any weapon fin weapon if you have weapon fin.

    second any weapon can be made into a fin weapon using a mixture of 8 fighter and 3 monk, can then include 9 of any other class for whatever pref they may have and build anything froma club to a khopesh using fin fighter.

    But I suspect your right about the OPs ish Anyone trying to bring anythin flavor based into EE is almost certainly dead weight based on the player ability alone.

  2. #22
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    A rapier wielding halfling has no synergy with the current enhancement system. If you are building a dex Rogue, you not only need to use dex for to hit, you want to use it for damage as well. In todays DDO, that's Kukris, Daggers and Quarterstaffs.
    If you have Weapon Finesse, DEX will apply to dmg with all Finesseable weapons (inc. rapiers) once you have Dagger in the Back. However, with Knife Specialization boosting crit multiplier on daggers & kukris, I agree there's little incentive to using rapiers on a pure Assassin. I have a few DEX-based rog / bards who will appreciate it, though.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    well first you do know any and all weapons in DDO now can be potentially used for dex based fighting if they wish to build for it.
    um. yes, I know that. However, the build suggested didnt include weapon finesse as a feat. THerefore, the only weapons you could use dex for damage for would be the ones I listed.
    First you do know the assassin core ability gives it for daggs and kuks but will also extend the dex to dmg benny to any weapon fin weapon if you have weapon fin.
    the build lacked weapon fin.
    second any weapon can be made into a fin weapon using a mixture of 8 fighter and 3 monk, can then include 9 of any other class for whatever pref they may have and build anything froma club to a khopesh using fin fighter.
    second, the build present was just a "rogue". that certainly implies that there were not 8 levels of fighter and 3 levels of monk inthe build to me.

    But I suspect your right about the OPs ish Anyone trying to bring anythin flavor based into EE is almost certainly dead weight based on the player ability alone.
    Iwas critiquing the build presented. Not making a game wide statement.
    Last edited by Impaqt; 09-20-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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  4. #24
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Sorry, but that is horrid advice. in addition to low strength, they carry capacity is further reduced due to their size. starting that low will get you into encumbered territory often. He'll be leaving any armor he finds in chests behind. not to mention getting helpless due to ray of enfeeblement and later in game symbol of weakness.
    When building a dex based build, and choosing a dex based race for it you can choose between lower strength and lower con. Strength is less important to the dex based build. Items, tomes, and augment gems can make up for lack of strength for carrying capacity. I am saying this from experience. I have a strength dumped character. I loot everything as long as I have space. That being said, unbongwa's stat alotments are likely a better way than mine, as his builds are often times just a bit better than mine, I'd trust his judgement on stuff like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    A rapier wielding halfling has no synergy with the current enhancement system. If you are building a dex Rogue, you not only need to use dex for to hit, you want to use it for damage as well. In todays DDO, that's Kukris, Daggers and Quarterstaffs.
    Assassin enhancements and weapon finesse will allow dex to damage for rapiers. If you look a couple posts down, I stated the need to add in weapon finesse. I am seriously just too lazy to do the work of editing an old post for people too lazy to read a whole thread and connect dots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    regardless, the to hit penalty from dual wielding rapiers isnt really anything to worry about and you wouldnt be able to take Epic Toughness anyway starting with a 14 Con.
    I always forget about that feats requirements, my apologies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    I'm not convinced the build is the reason the OP is dying in end game.... Getting dead is more often a mistake or failing behind the keyboard... especially if its "excessive"
    Dying or not dying is irrelevant to the OP. Don't know why you aren't getting that. He is not here to have someone tell him how to live more, so comments like these are kind of a waste.
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you have Weapon Finesse, DEX will apply to dmg with all Finesseable weapons (inc. rapiers) once you have Dagger in the Back. However, with Knife Specialization boosting crit multiplier on daggers & kukris, I agree there's little incentive to using rapiers on a pure Assassin. I have a few DEX-based rog / bards who will appreciate it, though.
    perhaps I should of said

    "A rapier wielding halfling has no synergy with the current enhancement system. If you are building a dex Rogue, without weapon finesse, you not only need to use dex for to hit, you want to use it for damage as well. In todays DDO, that's Kukris, Daggers and Quarterstaffs."
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post


    I always forget about that feats requirements, my apologies.
    so you forgot weapon finesse requires you to actually take weapon finesse?
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  7. #27
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Oh come on.
    Rogue with 600hp can survive just fine.
    Shadow form for 25% incorporeality.
    Get your dodge at least to 20%
    Displacement Scrolls/clickies
    Blurry and ghostly items on.

    And you should be fine. Especially considering you can always use diplo or clickie from shadowdancer - 100% dodge for 12 secs. 12 secs being non-hitable is plenty of time to escape.
    You can also raise your PPR for mobs to hit you less.

    And thats it. int/dex rogue (with maxed int) assassin and you go,
    I assure you - most melees dont have ghostlu, inporporeality and dodge high all high and 100% doidge escape clickies. Most melees cant tumble thro mobs like you can in Shadowdancer destiny.
    And if the problem is you dont have destinies ( i didnt read if u have them or not) - then clearly without EDs stepping into Epic Elites is not going to work good.
    Last edited by Kayla93; 09-20-2013 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #28
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    so you forgot weapon finesse requires you to actually take weapon finesse?
    Did you completely miss the two posts where I mention adding it to that build or are you being a troll on purpose? Do you always misconstrue things people say? I had stated that the build I posted needed weapon finesse hours before you posted in this thread. Go see post 12.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 09-20-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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  9. #29
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    Here is the build I am currently using. I need to tweak it a bit, maybe drop mobility and pick up toughness, not sure yet. But I am loving it. I am using only daggers and Kukri (EMG and MIN II KuKri and Triple Pos Kukri) The envenomed blade is a good short short that also uses dex instead of str. I put my level ups into Dex and picked up some Int enhancements. My Assassinate DC is 60 at level 23. Keep your dodge maxed and get some displacement clickies.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Gijo 
    Level 25 True Neutral Halfling Male
    (20 Rogue \ 5 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 265
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 22
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             10                    13
    Dexterity            18                    28
    Constitution         14                    17
    Intelligence         18                    22
    Wisdom                8                    12
    Charisma              8                    12
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 25)
    Balance               8                    38
    Bluff                 3                    30
    Concentration         2                    10
    Diplomacy             3                    30
    Disable Device        8                    36
    Haggle               -1                     8
    Heal                 -1                     8
    Hide                  8                    42
    Intimidate           -1                     8
    Jump                  4                    28
    Listen               -1                    10
    Move Silently         8                    40
    Open Lock             8                    38
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                4                    14
    Search                8                    36
    Spot                  3                    30
    Swim                  0                    30
    Tumble                8                    38
    Use Magic Device      3                    31
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 21 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Sneak Attack
    
    
    Level 22 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 23 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 24 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows
    
    
    Level 25 (Rogue)
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  10. #30
    Community Member Cap_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayla93 View Post
    Rogue with 600hp can survive just fine.
    Shadow form for 25% incorporeality.
    Get your dodge at least to 20%
    Displacement Scrolls/clickies
    Blurry and ghostly items on.
    Hi,

    Shadow Form and Ghostly are both Incorporeal so you only get the highest which would be Shadow Form for 25% Incorporeal. But it doesn't hurt to have a Ghostly item equipped for when you are not in Shadow Form.

    Displacement and Blur are Concealment so you only get the highest. But again, a Blur item is nice to have for when the Displacement wears off.

    I just wanted to mention that incase someone thinks those stack.

    And OP, I looked at your build and I was wondering why you took Dodge and Mobility. That's 2 feats for 5% dodge?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    um. yes, I know that. However, the build suggested didnt include weapon finesse as a feat. THerefore, the only weapons you could use dex for damage for would be the ones I listed.

    the build lacked weapon fin.

    second, the build present was just a "rogue". that certainly implies that there were not 8 levels of fighter and 3 levels of monk inthe build to me.


    Iwas critiquing the build presented. Not making a game wide statement.
    weapon fin also comes on weapons, named and random though ive not seen them drop in a while and wonder what may have become of them. However Ive long seen it asked to be made a craft shard that can go in more slots as one way to help fin fighters prior to the en pass. Im no crafter but i imagine master craftsmen may be capable of producing for themselves flexible shards of it which allows for alot of options right now.

    And as the OP said he wasnt exactly looking for hard build guides but suggestions and advice. hence why I am just throwing out ideas and concepts rather then build his toon for him.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Did you completely miss the two posts where I mention adding it to that build or are you being a troll on purpose? Do you always misconstrue things people say? I had stated that the build I posted needed weapon finesse hours before you posted in this thread. Go see post 12.
    yup. Missed em.

    Still not a fan of 6str halflings.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    yup. Missed em.

    Still not a fan of 6str halflings.
    Happens to the best of us.

    I personally don't care for halflings at all, 6 str or otherwise, but it seemed to fit thematically with what the OP was looking for. As the threads title was asking for a roleplaying sort of thing and the OP seemed to want a thematic build, I figured why not the iconic halfling rogue? Lol for that matter, personally I don't care much for twf or assassins, and very much prefer acrobat and THF lol.
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  14. #34
    Community Member FURYous's Avatar
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    good input, thanks much. I am out of reputation to add to the good suggestions, there are too many.

    So far I am thinking Drow, max int and as high as I can get Dex and con (will require 2 TRs)
    I like the following feats:
    Weapon finesse (for the expanded dex damage offered in the assassin enhancements)
    Dodge (to open up dodge ehancement but I may skip this as I only see one?)
    all the TWF feats
    Precision (Fort reduction is good for sneak attacks)
    insightful reflexes (everything I can get will go into int)
    Imp sneak attack
    not set on the other epic feats just yet other than PTWF

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by FURYous; 09-20-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Well you can't have mine,
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  16. #36
    Community Member FURYous's Avatar
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    More rep handed out, thanks again for the input.

    Running into a little trouble (expected) since there are so few groups my level doing the quests I need (elite and 2 levels below me for speed and XP), I am running into DPS issues

    I love the way it plays so far (level 7) except that if I don't have someone to get the attention of the mobs, my DPS drops dramatically. This got me to thinking, if I am duoing or playing in small groups without a "tank", how effective is this guy going to be?

    I have played around with bluff and it works pretty good for a swing or two but it takes a swing or two for the animation to complete so I am not sure I am gaining there.

    Any tips?
    Choler 25 Brd 2TR | Enmity 25Clr | Exasperate 20Sor | Ferocity 6Ftr 2TR | Furyous 25Art 1TR | Hiddin 20Mnk | Infuryated 6Rng 1TR | Retributive 8Dru | Vehemence 23Rog 3TRs | Vehement 10Pal 3Mnk 1Rog | Vexate 22Wiz 2TRs | Violence 28FvS Completionist 23TRs

  17. #37
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Equip a Deception weapon or item for the random bluff proc. At higher lvls, looking for weapons with Blinding effect. Invest in threat reduction. But most of all, let the other guy(s) draw aggro first.

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