Page 27 of 36 FirstFirst ... 17232425262728293031 ... LastLast
Results 521 to 540 of 702
  1. #521
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    The hardest settings should absolutely be more difficult than they are now, but there should not be anything found in that hard setting that cannot be acquired in an easier setting. No special versions of named loot that can only be found in the hardest setting. No favor that cannot be acquired on an easier setting. The most they should do is give more experience and more chests that contain the same loot that would be found on the easier settings. Then people that want to be challenged can be challenged and people that don't want to be challenged (e.g. people that play MMO's to relax after a stressful day) can play the easier settings and still get the loot they desire. Loot should not be tied to difficulty. As long as it is, the hardest difficulty needs to be easy enough for everyone to play it.
    the reason why rewards are the way they are now, with elite versions better than normal versions, is because it is incentive to run higher difficulties. before any of these changes, there was no incentive other than favor, challenge and to brag. most people, and it shows in game quite obviously, would rather skip the challenge part to get what they want easier on lower difficulties. we do it all the time when we farm lower level quests for a named item or run difficult quests on a specific character because its easier than doing it on your alt. there were a lot of complaints about not seeing the point in running elite when you could just get the same thing on a lower difficulty. this is a video game that rewards progression just like a lot of other games do too.

  2. #522
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    the reason why rewards are the way they are now, with elite versions better than normal versions, is because it is incentive to run higher difficulties. before any of these changes, there was no incentive other than favor, challenge and to brag. most people, and it shows in game quite obviously, would rather skip the challenge part to get what they want easier on lower difficulties. we do it all the time when we farm lower level quests for a named item or run difficult quests on a specific character because its easier than doing it on your alt. there were a lot of complaints about not seeing the point in running elite when you could just get the same thing on a lower difficulty. this is a video game that rewards progression just like a lot of other games do too.
    It's hard to put it . . . but the best I really can is challenge needs incentive. I mean I'll do anything once (as long as it doesn't involve a ruffie and a goat) for the hell of it . . . but to run something "challenging" repeatedly there needs to be a reward for the effort.

  3. #523
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    A Tukaw is not a bard, bards can't trap, don't have fighter feats or profieciencies, and don't have the damage spells of a sorc or reconstruct in ddo. Not to mention a Tukaw isn't exactly an easy button build imo.
    And that level four twist is actually outdone by playing a pure, sorc, wizard, cleric, fvs, and to an extent druid. The fact that your base abilities are more powerful than any twist on some classes is kind of telling with how people are whining about the twists bug.

    omg I have more fun playing with people that are similar to me and that I'm "online friends" with. I'm an evil person.

    Everything you just talked about is normal in mmos.


    I can carry five pikers thru most quests, it doesn't mean doing so is fun and having 5 people doing everything they can to cause a failure (not saying this is what happens in pugs) shouldn't be how to create a challenge.
    I wasn't using the Tukaw example as an elite build but rather making a reference to The Order of the Stick comic where one was a bard and his evil twin was a fighter/rogue/sorcerer because "bards suck." You are absolutely right that a Tukaw can do things that a bard cannot. There are some real examples of how a Tukaw is better than a bard. It is metagaming at its finest. Cutting every corner possible to make the game as easy as you can.

    And I should point out I have no complaints about any of the things I posted on. Feel free to metagame and make a super powerful build. Feel free to get great gear and play exclusively with extremely skilled "online friends." But realize that the game cannot be built around challenging the upper 1% that refuse to group with anyone but other people that are also in the upper 1%. In order to be played by everyone the game has to be balanced around the skills of everyone and that includes the elite difficulty because elite has rewards that everyone has the right to. If the best loot only drops in content that 1% of the players are good enough to beat then that loot is only fun for a maximum of 1% of the players and is not worth the developer time to create. Thus the trend to make the game easier and have less raid content. Designing content that most people will never play is largely wasted time. The developers got their money's worth when they made Korthos. Everyone plays on Korthos.

    I am not saying raids and high level content should not be created. but when they are created, they need to be accessible to everyone that reaches the level cap. If you are in the upper 1% you do indeed need to find ways to challenge yourself because it is not worth the effort making content that can only be played by such a tiny portion of people (and it is made even worse by the fact that unless it has exclusive rewards many of the people capable of playing it won't do so because they want quick and easy rewards more than they want to be challenged).
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  4. #524
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Communism worked really well in Russia . . .
    Lol... and china, nice one.

    Poor Marx... his ideas weren't so bad. Equality for all? Not so much once integrated right into human nature.

    Now let's try that in USA/Canada. Even better, let's have this philosophy in games as well! Let's see if people will average (dumb down?) themselves to a common ground because of the... ones that are bad at it?
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  5. #525
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Mabar
    Posts
    6,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    blah blah blah... As long as it is, the hardest difficulty needs to be easy enough for everyone to play it.
    No. The AH and SH are there for those lollipops that don't want to work for some of the best loot and the rest shouldn't be touched by a sloth that can't bother to challenge themselves.
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
    Beware My Gifts!!!

  6. #526
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    work....
    Posts
    30,354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    No. The AH and SH are there for those lollipops that don't want to work for some of the best loot and the rest shouldn't be touched by a sloth that can't bother to challenge themselves.
    And those that have said **** it after getting shafted run after run after run.

  7. #527
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    3,598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I am not saying raids and high level content should not be created. but when they are created, they need to be accessible to everyone that reaches the level cap. If you are in the upper 1% you do indeed need to find ways to challenge yourself because it is not worth the effort making content that can only be played by such a tiny portion of people (and it is made even worse by the fact that unless it has exclusive rewards many of the people capable of playing it won't do so because they want quick and easy rewards more than they want to be challenged).
    I know plenty of people that play maybe an hour a week and do not have time to grind and learn every quests. If we are to make every quest so simple that even they could “be good in it”, we would be playing Candy Land.

    I play a lot and own very little EE gear, so I feel comfortable saying this. Why is someone that only plays casually worried about having the best of the best gear? If these people are only logging on to blow off steam after work, what does it matter to them if their loot has a green slot over a colorless? I am not about keeping the unbathed masses out of EE content, but I find it funny when someone that plays an hour a week thinks they should be more powerful than plays this as a full time job.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

  8. #528
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Sarlona
    Posts
    881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    No. The AH and SH are there for those lollipops that don't want to work for some of the best loot and the rest shouldn't be touched by a sloth that can't bother to challenge themselves.
    This is a bit convoluted. If the top 1% are selling the gear, how do the 99% make money to buy it besides getting higher up themselves? Or spending a whole lot of cash?

    Either way- I don't think it's 1%. Top 10% maybe, and raids and such should be available for the higher tier players. Usually, it's a goal for the lower tier players to get up there so they can run the content.

    I don't know anybody that played Final Fantasy X that didn't want to try and kill Nemesis. It's was very difficult to get there, but once you got to a certain point it got really, really easy.

    The devs can't estimate the power that they're giving us when they release this. We tend to find brokenly powerful builds like the Jug and just destroy all content. So again, infinite scaling if possible. Randomly generate dungeons with random mobs and parts and different places- the deeper you get in the dungeon, the harder it becomes. Make a final set level 100 floor or something like that, with a town every 5 levels you have to log out of. If you wipe you start over. Would solve all the problems.
    ~Sarlona~ - Proud Member of The Unrepentant
    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    Praise Dog, and Maelodic, his prophet.

  9. #529
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I wasn't using the Tukaw example as an elite build but rather making a reference to The Order of the Stick comic where one was a bard and his evil twin was a fighter/rogue/sorcerer because "bards suck." You are absolutely right that a Tukaw can do things that a bard cannot. There are some real examples of how a Tukaw is better than a bard. It is metagaming at its finest. Cutting every corner possible to make the game as easy as you can.

    And I should point out I have no complaints about any of the things I posted on. Feel free to metagame and make a super powerful build. Feel free to get great gear and play exclusively with extremely skilled "online friends." But realize that the game cannot be built around challenging the upper 1% that refuse to group with anyone but other people that are also in the upper 1%. In order to be played by everyone the game has to be balanced around the skills of everyone and that includes the elite difficulty because elite has rewards that everyone has the right to. If the best loot only drops in content that 1% of the players are good enough to beat then that loot is only fun for a maximum of 1% of the players and is not worth the developer time to create. Thus the trend to make the game easier and have less raid content. Designing content that most people will never play is largely wasted time. The developers got their money's worth when they made Korthos. Everyone plays on Korthos.

    I am not saying raids and high level content should not be created. but when they are created, they need to be accessible to everyone that reaches the level cap. If you are in the upper 1% you do indeed need to find ways to challenge yourself because it is not worth the effort making content that can only be played by such a tiny portion of people (and it is made even worse by the fact that unless it has exclusive rewards many of the people capable of playing it won't do so because they want quick and easy rewards more than they want to be challenged).
    If you think only the "1%" are completing raids and EEs you are delusional.

  10. #530
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,785

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I think some of the players seem to have trouble realizing that the point of RPG's is to eventually become amazingly powerful.
    Assuming we're not talking about rocket-propelled grenades here, the "G" is for "game" and thus the point is to have fun. If you find it fun to become "amazingly powerful" then the two are the same. If you spend most of your time not having fun because you're "working towards becoming amazingly powerful" then you're not playing a game, you're working a boring job with a negative wage.

  11. #531
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    If you think only the "1%" are completing raids and EEs you are delusional.
    This, I'm disabled with some neuromuscular things that I don't want to get into on a forum, but my reaction times and fine muscle control isn't the greatest, and I can complete ee's and raids with no problems.

  12. #532
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Why is someone that only plays casually worried about having the best of the best gear? If these people are only logging on to blow off steam after work, what does it matter to them if their loot has a green slot over a colorless? I am not about keeping the unbathed masses out of EE content, but I find it funny when someone that plays an hour a week thinks they should be more powerful than plays this as a full time job.
    So cliché yet so true.

    Why take a part of the game away from other when we're not even interrested into it. I think that's what I find the worst about those complaints.

    We, powergamers, enjoy endgame which is... maybe 5% max of the game (not even currently). Isn't the other 95% enought for them?
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  13. #533
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the right spot at the right time.
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    I am old school DnD, and like the system in DDO and the combat is the best. I have dabbled lightly with other games, but they seem less realistic in combat. Less instantaneous. Less tactical combat and too much click and watch.

    I play DDO because it is fun. Not for gear or the next fix. I run quests because they are fun most of the time. It is rare for me to run the game for gear. I have one Greensteel item so far as an example. I have lots of materials with my casual Shrouds over the years, but have not bothered to make anything else. Sometimes I think about it, but I get by just fine with auction house gear mostly. I let the game stay ahead of me. It is more fun that way, and I enjoy it more when I find ways not to grind. I pace myself so I don't burn out or get ****ed. I am patient with the game and try not to ruin it by overplaying.

    I am the casual player and have not TR'd yet in 4 year. Why TR when there are easier and less time consuming and less addictive ways to do it without wasting my life. I sell Raid Timers and buy DDO store items to help me keep up with the grinders. It supports the game. When I only have a few minutes I spend on here to help and give a casual way of playing option.

    If everyone cycled down a little and became more casual in their play the game would not have to keep up with an addiction to keep it interesting. It is a game and not a way of life. It is wrong to think of it as a job. It is an escape and I can think of more destruction ways to escape the daily life than DDO or MMOs. In that way it is a good thing.

    Now you are actually more productive in the game on average by working some overtime in real life, and using that money in the game with the DDO store rather than grinding your life away hours on end. I consider overtime a subjective word in this case and just one example. Some have different options and limitations in real life than others, but that is the exception and not the rule IMHO.



    The creators of the game don't want you to play it like crazy. They just want you to have fun and give them money. It makes their jobs harder when people play it too much because they have to keep up to get the money. lol
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 09-22-2013 at 09:51 PM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  14. #534
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Crucibled is nerfed, in DDO context. Its not literally the same thing though. It has more to do with something being trivialized due to entitlement based player complaints.
    You are right and that is why the word puts such a foul taste in my mouth. It is used pretty much exclusively by elitists that are upset that some part of the game was made more accessible to the masses instead of only being available to them. What is best for DDO is to be playable by as many people as possible.

    I do sometimes crave the good-old-days when MMO's were too difficult and time consuming to be played by most people (you know, before WoW came along and made everything accessible), but then I realize how unreasonable it is of me to expect a company to purposely exclude 99% of the pool of potential players just because I want a sense of meaningful accomplishment. I prefer a game where no more than 10% of players ever reach the level cap. In a game like that being high in level means something more than you purchased a stone of experience or you have been playing a week. I know niche products can and do work but you need to be extremely certain of your niche and your ability to draw their interest before you purposely excluded the masses. In today's world with as many MMO's as there are it is very hard for a company to be certain they can maintain a niche enough to ignore the desires of the normal people. Thus, we all get used to playing causal games. I don't really want to TR. I never want to hit the level cap to begin with. But good quality American MMO's just aren't designed that way any more. Even casual players are expected to hit the level cap these days.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  15. #535
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    This, I'm disabled with some neuromuscular things that I don't want to get into on a forum, but my reaction times and fine muscle control isn't the greatest, and I can complete ee's and raids with no problems.
    I spent my youth eat lead-paint chips and was educated by the American Public School system. I complete EEs and raids all the time.

    We hardly set the bar high for the rest of humanity.

  16. #536
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    This is a flatly false statement and needs to stop being perpetuated as truth. A high reflex evasion toon is only required for groups that consist of people too lazy and too rushed to learn for themselves. Go in on casual, do the swim on a non-evasion toon. Learn how to dodge the spikes. You don't have to complete the quest, so there's no risk of streak breakage. Now go in on Normal. When you can successfully do that, try hard. Then go in on Elite and get your BB streak bonus. It can and has been done without evasion.

    The "gimmy-gimmy nnnaaaaooooowww!!!! and don't make me think or problem solve to get it!!!1!111!!!1!" issues that perpetuate the myth that one must wait for a high reflex evasion swimmer are the same issues that brought us "undead are hard."

    Suck it up cupcake, other people learned how to do that swim on a pure fighter, you can too!
    When I start a party I feel an obligation to make sure it goes well. That is part of being a good leader. It's true I could take the time to master the swim, but it won't change the fact that if I make one wrong move my character will be dead, no one will be able to raise me, and in most typical PUG's no one will be able to survive the swim either. So in effect, I failed my party as a leader. Sure I could do that, or I could make sure I have someone that will definitely survive the swim (sometimes this is me, sometimes it is not). I could send my army out with no helmets or I could wait for the helmets to arrive to make sure my troops are not decimated by head shots. Your advice, cupcake, doesn't make for very good leadership because it puts your party members at needless risk.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  17. #537
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    You are right and that is why the word puts such a foul taste in my mouth. It is used pretty much exclusively by elitists that are upset that some part of the game was made more accessible to the masses instead of only being available to them. What is best for DDO is to be playable by as many people as possible.
    LOL. not accessible to the masses? are you on a 1 player server? sorry, but after reading post after post, you seem very detached from the game.

  18. #538
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    it wasn't all that long ago. MOTU was when? last year spring/summer? players were pretty focused with the new expansion that had better loot, but a really bugged out raid. the 7 +1 raids were still being run, but some a bit less because of better loot in MOTU namely Reavers, VOD, LOB and Hound. LOB would have continued to be run more often, imo, if it weren't for the wonky drop rates and the numerous complaints by players about the run to the raid that never was addressed. some of us aren't really asking for those same raids to be viable with cap at 28 and eventually 30, although it would be nice if they were, but its obvious that end game activity now is nothing compared to last year. current end game is pretty much 2 raids, ED grind, level to 28 which includes running older epics and farming for loot in quests. not much of an incentive to stay at epic levels, especially since loot is easy to get overall.

    as far as the game dying before 2009, there are some older vets that disagree, while ive read some that disagree with them. F2P did bring in a lot of new players, including me, and i haven't seen the population that high since.
    Assuming they do once again add enough end game content (and I assume they will eventually) it will be interesting to see how much it gets played. Part of what made the old end game content so useful was that you raided to get great gear for your next life. If they keep with the ridiculously high minimum levels that everything epic has now it won't be run by people looking to TR (maybe some people looking to Epic TR but even then you will only be able to use many of the items for a small portion of your epic levels next life). I do hope the eventually see the wisdom in releasing epic gear with relatively low minimum levels or I suspect their won't be nearly as many people raiding as their used to be no matter how good the raids are. Let's be honest, back when the level cap was 20, how many people would have run shroud nearly as much as they did if you could not use anything you got from it until level 18?
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  19. #539
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Assuming they do once again add enough end game content (and I assume they will eventually) it will be interesting to see how much it gets played. Part of what made the old end game content so useful was that you raided to get great gear for your next life. If they keep with the ridiculously high minimum levels that everything epic has now it won't be run by people looking to TR (maybe some people looking to Epic TR but even then you will only be able to use many of the items for a small portion of your epic levels next life). I do hope the eventually see the wisdom in releasing epic gear with relatively low minimum levels or I suspect their won't be nearly as many people raiding as their used to be no matter how good the raids are. Let's be honest, back when the level cap was 20, how many people would have run shroud nearly as much as they did if you could not use anything you got from it until level 18?
    Won't get any disagreement with me on this point. One of the things I dislike about the idea of Epic TR is that I'll be largely playing to re-equip what gear I have already acquired, rather than acquiring new gear. With bank and bag space already being stretched to the limit, I hate having to keep holding on to lower level gear just so I have something to use when I get the big ole level drain of ER and am suddenly level 20 again.

  20. #540
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Overall (as you know) I agree with you, though there are areas of the game where the grind is unavoidable -- the alternative is not playing, I suppose. The high teens are awful and have been for a long time -- and they've gotten much, MUCH worse since epic levels were added because of the high-teen raids no longer being run at level. I'm level 12 right now with 13 banked and trying to get closer to 14 before I take 13 and I'm already out of quests and will have to repeat stuff. Not a lot, but definitely some.

    The very high epic levels are now also underpopulated.

    I'm hoping U20 will address this, though. There's no reason to believe they are going to add in a new system like this and not adjust XP requirements, especially when they've already said they plan to do exactly that.
    I believe this is no longer the case when it comes to heroic leveling on 3rd+ life. I mostly tested it last life, but couldn't resist the urge to run Shadow Crypt twice and when I got to 17 I did run Litany of the Dead several times as well. But what I discovered was that I got to 20 with several quest packs untouched. I did however run the cannith (but not eveningstar) challenges once each for some first time bonuses. I did not run any of the latest expansion nor high road quests at heroic levels, but did run all the other quests that were not raids. The point is, with the new first-run-of-the-day bonus it is probably not necessary to repeat any quests as all even if you never use an experience potion (which I don't). I should point out that I did have a 5% ship buff, 5% equipment buff, 50% tome buff, and 50% elite streak the whole time though. You may have to be willing to take certain levels before you used to though. If you are level 12 you don't have to get all the way to 1 experience from 14 before you take 13. Just do the level 10's on elite and level up. The worst that will happen is you may have to run some extra Litany of the Dead when you are level 17 or 18. You can use that quest to catch up if any mathematical errors are made (or if there are certain heroic quests packs you want to skip).
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

Page 27 of 36 FirstFirst ... 17232425262728293031 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload