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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    When you start thinking of the game as more then your own entitlement, we can all get somewhere.
    I'm just as entitled to how I like things as you are, sport. And the idea that DDO was ever a serious raiding game is totally laughable.

    Qhualor, I don't dislike Crucible because of XP/min. I dislike it because it is boring.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I'm just as entitled to how I like things as you are, sport. And the idea that DDO was ever a serious raiding game is totally laughable.

    Qhualor, I don't dislike Crucible because of XP/min. I dislike it because it is boring.
    Well thanks, tiger. The only difference is that I am thinking of a game balance and so far your posting has been "Well I don't like it." There are alot of things I do not like as well, but others do and I have no problem with that. I have problems with any player base getting left out. Right now, that is the end game raiding. So again, once you are willing to advocate for something that doesn't hurt your game experience any but enriches others then you are welcome to comment further.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  3. #363
    Community Member Lanhelin's Avatar
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    Maddmatt70 and Teh_Troll are the same person, multiboxing us k.o. - so what? And No to OP's questions/suggestions :P

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Well thanks, tiger. The only difference is that I am thinking of a game balance and so far your posting has been "Well I don't like it." There are alot of things I do not like as well, but others do and I have no problem with that. I have problems with any player base getting left out. Right now, that is the end game raiding. So again, once you are willing to advocate for something that doesn't hurt your game experience any but enriches others then you are welcome to comment further.
    That's a great argument. Or would be, if I had ever said I was opposed to more raids in the game.

    I didn't.

    As I wrote several pages ago -- I am not advocating against "endgame". I am advocating against threads like this that say "endgame" should be the priority over everything else.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    That's a great argument. Or would be, if I had ever said I was opposed to more raids in the game.

    I didn't.

    As I wrote several pages ago -- I am not advocating against "endgame". I am advocating against threads like this that say "endgame" should be the priority over everything else.
    I don't recall this being about endgame being the priority over everything else. As it stands, they are putting the cart before the horse. Releasing a super grind fest, for some unknown to date bonuses, without the quest xp being able to support it without buying lots of xp pots and/or grinding quests until your eyes bleed.

    What I understand this to be, was a discussion to address the population of your endgame players and what they would like and to try and cater to them some as they have been largely neglected lately, and thrown things they do not want. Pages of posts from folks that play mostly end game/capped characters should be a sign.

    Sorry I need to spell this out for you. But this new system is not for the casuals. No casual is going to grind out 6.6 mil xp for a PL ED on a repeat basis. This is a system catered toward grinders and end game players and by and large those that play at that level are not happy with it. Casuals pretending they want this, when they have no intention of ever doing it have no voice in this debate as far as I am concerned.

    It would be like me ranting about some change in Perma Death play, when I've no intention of ever doing it.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    I don't recall this being about endgame being the priority over everything else.
    The thread title is "Say No to Epic True Reincarnation and Yes to an Epic End Game". It's not exactly ambiguous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    No casual is going to grind out 6.6 mil xp for a PL ED on a repeat basis.
    The fact that you would even write a sentence like this shows that you, like most of the other rush-rush-rush types, don't really understand what casual play is about.

    I want epic TR because I think it will be a nice addition to the game. I will partake of it at my own pace, if it seems like fun, and it won't matter to me how long it takes, just as how long heroic TRing takes doesn't matter to me.

    Somewhat ironic that you simultaneously are implying that I'm selfish, and saying I shouldn't care about anything that you don't think affects me personally. Which you're mistaken about anyway.

    Oh, and to top it off: we don't know how much XP will be required when this is implemented. Nor what adjustments may be made to quest XP.

    Lots of jumping to conclusions.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    The thread title is "Say No to Epic True Reincarnation and Yes to an Epic End Game". It's not exactly ambiguous.



    The fact that you would even write a sentence like this shows that you, like most of the other rush-rush-rush types, don't really understand what casual play is about.

    I want epic TR because I think it will be a nice addition to the game. I will partake of it at my own pace, if it seems like fun, and it won't matter to me how long it takes, just as how long heroic TRing takes doesn't matter to me.

    Somewhat ironic that you simultaneously are implying that I'm selfish, and saying I shouldn't care about anything that you don't think affects me personally. Which you're mistaken about anyway.

    Oh, and to top it off: we don't know how much XP will be required when this is implemented. Nor what adjustments may be made to quest XP.

    Lots of jumping to conclusions.
    Titles have a way of catching the eye don't they? And then the real discussion begins. My appologies you got stuck at the loading screen.

    Actually, you know nothing of me. Because I write one sentence you presume to know my persona? Quite presumptious of you. I could bore you of the details of how many times, I have joined new player runs and led them throught, made commitments through the new player mentor program and explored dungeons that were old hat to me, and took 45 mins in Durks to show new players the fun of a dungeon crawl. I am not one dimensional, and your presumptions are both false and pretentious.

    You may think you want this now. But you don't. How do I know? Your previous post history provides a disdain of farming xp. With the current xp threshold it will be nothing but grinding. Get two characters to level 28 and come back and say it was so much fun you are willing to do it x amount of times again.

    The game needs more content before this is released, unless you like to grind xp. If you like to grind then by all means vote for it, if you do not like to grind then by default you are on my side, like it or not.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Quite presumptious of you. ... false and pretentious.
    ...
    You may think you want this now. But you don't. How do I know?
    Okay. So I'm presumptuous and pretentious. But you get to tell me that I don't want something I just said I wanted.

    We're done here.

  9. #369
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Its more fun to play quests and raids, etc. where there is some sort of challenge. Levelling is an easy snoozefest. Trubine has never addressed that aspect of DDO that levelling is an easy snoozefest.
    they COULD nerf the hell out of everyone so it'll be a struggle to lvl
    but we all know how well that'll end up
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Okay. So I'm presumptuous and pretentious. But you get to tell me that I don't want something I just said I wanted.

    We're done here.
    I got to tell you that you don't want something based off your previous posting history and the implemention currently of said concept. Unless either is a falsehood I believe my recommendation was spot on. Thanks for playing, sport.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  11. #371
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    Except for the small problems that: the current implementation is going to be changed; and it doesn't matter to me if it takes a long time to complete an epic TR, because it doesn't matter to me how long it takes to complete a heroic TR.

    But please, by all means, continue making rude comments while simultaneously ignoring what I'm saying so you can tell me you know better than I do what I want. It's highly persuasive.

  12. #372
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    The problem I see with ER so far, is the same as the problem with Twists of Fate. In the current ED system, we must grind unwanted Destinies in order to gain the Fate points we need to unlock relevant Twists. So we're running millions of XP worth of content on gimp builds. ER as it's being posed to us now will have the same problem. In order to gain some Divine EPL benefit on a Primal build for example, we'll have to run gimped even longer. This really needs to be well thought out before dumping it on us.

  13. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    yep and that's the direction the game has been going in for some time now. players don't want to do things that require a little skill and brain power. they would rather just point, click, kill, run forward done. next quest. Turbine decided it was better to change the core of DDO to better cater to a certain portion of the population.
    Maybe, but you got to roll with it and realize that it's either survive and adopt or stomp your feet and die. The good thing is that it's still there even if it's not a flagging quest so nothing is really missing. I know that small things always bother people but to me it's more a question of 'will the game be there tomorrow'.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Except for the small problems that: the current implementation is going to be changed; and it doesn't matter to me if it takes a long time to complete an epic TR, because it doesn't matter to me how long it takes to complete a heroic TR.

    But please, by all means, continue making rude comments while simultaneously ignoring what I'm saying so you can tell me you know better than I do what I want. It's highly persuasive.
    Oh jeez, let me spell it out for you then...

    Small problems that the Devs will address...yeah there was that snip from the original thread where all ED XP was threatened to be wiped clean. And no further comment on it since then. Sorry, I am not taking that bit of info as proof yet that a change is coming.

    I based my coments because you have more then once stated you like a once and done streak leveling. You don't like to rush and grind. With things as they are now, you once and done everything Epic and Challenges and you are around level 26. Leaving well over 2 million xp to grind. You don't like to grind, remember? I am basing my comments off your own posting. Tell me I am wrong and you would enjoy grinding another 2 million xp per ED PL.

    Once you do one time and streak everything, you are left with repeating same quests over and over again. And each completion is a tiny tick movement in that XP bar. I can say for a fact you won't enjoy it, unless your posting history was a lie. So either your previous posting was falsehood or I am correct in you will not enjoy repeating the same quests over and over again for a slight bumb in your xp bar.

    When either the Dev Team flat out implements an XP curve for Epic Levels (not just talks about it) or you decide you love to grind XP, my position stands strong.

    Don't feel bad, alot of folks think they will like something until they actually get a taste for it.

    And, you are welcome for pointing this out to you!
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    You may think you want this now. But you don't. How do I know? Your previous post history provides a disdain of farming xp. With the current xp threshold it will be nothing but grinding. Get two characters to level 28 and come back and say it was so much fun you are willing to do it x amount of times again.
    .

    alot people aqquire xp because they run the quest whether for fun or loot.some people think farming xp is the only reason to run a quest

    i have some toons at cap and still dont have nearly everything i want.i will do many epic trs and not farm 1 quest for xp.

    i will run quests for fun,loot or because i enjoy grouping with people ....i am by far not the only one

    you also have a posting history sooooo your personality is also displayed

  16. #376
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Okay. So I'm presumptuous and pretentious. But you get to tell me that I don't want something I just said I wanted.

    We're done here.
    Funny how that works....

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  17. #377
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    With the current xp threshold it will be nothing but grinding. Get two characters to level 28 and come back and say it was so much fun you are willing to do it x amount of times again.
    It's not grindy at all if you don't try to get to 28 in a week. With the new xp ransack, I can play ANY epic quest I want. I play 4 different epic quests every night. Slow and steady, by the time I repeat something 2 weeks have gone by, and it's not grindy.

    If you guys would just PLAY the game, instead of attacking it like a mountain to be climbed, you might not feel like you're GRINDING for days and days in a game that is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, you're doing it wrong!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's not grindy at all if you don't try to get to 28 in a week. With the new xp ransack, I can play ANY epic quest I want. I play 4 different epic quests every night. Slow and steady, by the time I repeat something 2 weeks have gone by, and it's not grindy.

    If you guys would just PLAY the game, instead of attacking it like a mountain to be climbed, you might not feel like you're GRINDING for days and days in a game that is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, you're doing it wrong!
    Wrong.

    Repeating content = grindy

    You cannot get to 28 without repeating a ton of stuff.

  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    The problem I see with ER so far, is the same as the problem with Twists of Fate. In the current ED system, we must grind unwanted Destinies in order to gain the Fate points we need to unlock relevant Twists. So we're running millions of XP worth of content on gimp builds. ER as it's being posed to us now will have the same problem. In order to gain some Divine EPL benefit on a Primal build for example, we'll have to run gimped even longer. This really needs to be well thought out before dumping it on us.
    there are some here who will tell you there is nothing wrong with that system and you are trying to get something with no effort invested into it

    in heroics if you want the past life you have to have the majority of the levels when you TR in that class. it seems the ER doesn't require this which makes no sense to me. my barbarian can have the Divine epic past life without changing classes? I think that is wrong. the way I see it, players might as well go for completionist while they ED farm. 2 birds with 1 stone kind of thing.

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    I think trying to force pugging is a bad idea. Yes, this is an MMO. That's the beauty of it, if I feel like it, I can play with others. But if that means I always have to play with others, then it's going to get played less, because there are times when I just don't feel like playing with others, or people I don't know.

    I much prefer the fact that MMO means that there's a "massive" amount of people I can play with. I'd rather it not mean I have to play with a "massive" amount of people.

    You even said you'd rather not deal with a PuG. You'd rather have someone you know with Evasion do it. So why is forcing other people to maybe have to pug it, something you don't even want to do, a necessary thing for the health of the game?
    In my opinion there is a large difference between requiring grouping for some quests to be able to completely for the majority of people and requiring grouping full time. Some things need to require a group and some things should be easily soloed, part of me thinks changing raid flagging came down on the wrong side of this line. After all raids are all about grouping, if you've never grouped at all (extreme example) you're probably going to do very poorly in a raid because of the group dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I am not sure I am happy to say this but I agree with everything you just wrote. I do fully support the addition of new quests and like the epicing of old quests.

    Keep in mind though that this thread was started with the idea of excluding options. The thread does not say, "Say yes to epic TRing and please add more end game quests and raids," but rather tells us to say no to epic TRing which is the most interesting addition to the game we have had in a long time.
    And many of us are not saying to get rid of it but that they're maybe doing things backwards and should have put an endgame first. Since etr is coming first, I myself have said and really do hope they are using it to as a time sink while they work very very hard on creating an endgame again.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Producer Rowan's statement that Raids are not popular speaks volumes to Turbine's views of the end game in DDO.
    This is the main reason I'm very hesistant to spend any money on the game anytime soon as it makes me think I really might not be playing long.
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I know what you mean. So much is blamed on casuals, but they are not the problem. The problem are the multi-TR's that have the ability to help less-skilled players through quests and instead use dungeons scaling and the 10% experience loss on death as an excuse to solo and help no one. Then they complain how boring and easy TRing is. Sure it is boring, you are playing alone in a low challenge instance (since scaling makes it easy) and you don't even have any random newbs in your party to make things more interesting and challenging. Put up an LFM for whatever you are doing and then go play. Sometimes you will still end up soloing but you will have a wider range of experiences and will be helping more people learn the ropes of the game. I would love to see dungeon scaling disappear and be replaced with a 5% experience bonus for every player in the party beyond the first. Bring grouping back to the game even for the easy quests.
    Having a challenge shouldn't require bringing people into a quest difficulty that is beyond their ability to run and carrying them thru, that is extremely poor design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I'm just as entitled to how I like things as you are, sport. And the idea that DDO was ever a serious raiding game is totally laughable.
    DDO was never a hardcore progression raiding game that is true. I would call the raiding scene pre-motu a vibrant casual raiding scene. This was a good thing, and something many people liked. However not having that anymore is a major turn-off to many long time players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    That's a great argument. Or would be, if I had ever said I was opposed to more raids in the game.

    I didn't.

    As I wrote several pages ago -- I am not advocating against "endgame". I am advocating against threads like this that say "endgame" should be the priority over everything else.
    An endgame doesn't need to be a priority forever, but it needs to be a priority for several updates at this point or Turbine is going to lose money from losing a sizable amount of it's customers.

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