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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    whenever I am asked what quests or packs I like the most, I always list all the older ones like Von, Reavers, Amrath, Vale, Sands and all those quests with quest chains that give a reward at the end like STK and Tangleroot. to me, those are the best D&D quests in the game. the ones released the past couple years don't hold a candle to those ones.
    Agreed. Alot of the older content was just more thought out, multiple ways to complete objectives, some allowed certain classes to shine. Despite having run them a bazillion times, most of my favorite time leveling is through the original content that was released with the games launch, it just has a very D&D feel to it. There have been some gems like the Carnival Pack (house P) which I really think was well put together.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  2. #322
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Well there has always been different groups in DDO. The end game player group and the altitis used to be two of the bigger groups before true reincarnation. The altitis players never levelled a character to cap before they created a new character and would have many many characters on multiple servers. That group has conflicting views compared to the end game group, but Turbine managed to keep both groups happy.

    This is an overly rosy recollection of the near past which is easily countered by simply looking at some older threads. There are more threads asking TURBINE to RAISE the cap then those which happily discuss how much players love running the same 6 raids to death hoping against hope that magic seal or shard would drop.


    I remember a lot of threads where 'endgame' players predicted doom and gloom and player exodus unless Turbine raised the cap and created more high level content. Turbine did, now some of the same people are complaining that they never had it so good as when they were capped at 20 and had to keep running the same old epics for a year straight.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Why defeat it in game when we can defeat it on the forums.
    lol, that's sig worthy!
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  4. #324
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalinaa View Post
    I think it's not true.

    Wrong.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    This is an overly rosy recollection of the near past which is easily countered by simply looking at some older threads. There are more threads asking TURBINE to RAISE the cap then those which happily discuss how much players love running the same 6 raids to death hoping against hope that magic seal or shard would drop.


    I remember a lot of threads where 'endgame' players predicted doom and gloom and player exodus unless Turbine raised the cap and created more high level content. Turbine did, now some of the same people are complaining that they never had it so good as when they were capped at 20 and had to keep running the same old epics for a year straight.
    Well that can mostly be attributed into the old saying "Becareful what you ask for." Sure alot of folks may have asked for a level cap increase. I am sure none of them thought it would wind up being a grindy suckfest where your uber gear you took so long to put together is easily replaced by random junk found in an explorer chest, otherwise they would've kept their mouths shut, lol.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  6. #326
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    This is an overly rosy recollection of the near past which is easily countered by simply looking at some older threads. There are more threads asking TURBINE to RAISE the cap then those which happily discuss how much players love running the same 6 raids to death hoping against hope that magic seal or shard would drop.


    I remember a lot of threads where 'endgame' players predicted doom and gloom and player exodus unless Turbine raised the cap and created more high level content. Turbine did, now some of the same people are complaining that they never had it so good as when they were capped at 20 and had to keep running the same old epics for a year straight.
    Because they didnt think that raising the cap would mean paying for best in slot items rather than playing for best in slot items.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Wrong.
    I could be well moved if I were as you.
    If I could pray to move, prayers would move me.
    But I am constant as the northern star,
    Of whose true-fixed and resting quality
    There is no fellow in the firmament.
    The skies are painted with unnumbered sparks.
    They are all fire and every one doth shine,
    But there’s but one in all doth hold his place.
    So in the world. 'Tis furnished well with men,
    And men are flesh and blood, and apprehensive,
    Yet in the number I do know but one
    That unassailable holds on his rank,
    Unshaked of motion. And that I am he
    Let me a little show it even in this:
    That I was constant Cimber should be banished,
    And constant do remain to keep him so.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  8. #328
    Community Member Lorianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    The challenge/test was when it was first released. No one knew the maze, rogues were trying to find the trap boxes in the agility test, everyone went swimming because we thought we had to stick together. Sure, years and years later after lots of trial and error and experience being handed down it's no longer really a challenge as it once was. But quests of late don't even attempt to be a challenge when released, with the exception of just inflation of HP/Saves/Damage. The newer quests look great (aside from Purple Haze annoyance) but they are all just push W and hold mouse button down.
    Well, by that token there were lots of quests that were quite challenging when they were first released. The Inspired Quarter was nasty as heck when it first came out. So were the Vale quests (Rainbow in the Dark is still my favorite quest in the whole game), Amarath, etc. Once people learn the quests, they become easy because people know what to do. You can make a quest with dozens of insanely hard to figure out puzzles, carefully hidden traps, etc, but the moment people learn the answers and where the boxes are, it becomes trivial.

    Hence my point that you can't truly challenge people in the long term without randomization. When it's always "new" (or at least new-ish) there's always the unknown factor to deal with.

    I've enjoyed the Storm Horns/Wheloon stuff thus far (the purple haze **** notwithstanding), but I tend to solo, and don't have really "minmaxed" builds (and don't TR), so it's still a challenge to me the first couple times running each quest.

  9. #329
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Yeah its still there alright, pushed to the side and replaced with run forward > kill > repeat style quest that was designed to be one of the walk ups. Why defeat it in game when we can defeat it on the forums.
    Well, it's still there. You can play it whenever you like. Don't really know what the problem is with that. So other people may not run it. So what? How does that really affect you? I highly doubt it has much of an affect on the overall game, negative or otherwise. People who like that type of quests will still do it. And people who don't like it, won't. Seems pretty straight-forward to me. And I like the quest. Never had any problem doing it.

  10. #330
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    Apparently it's better for people to stand around waiting for someone else to do a swim than have them run through a quest killing hobgoblins. *shrug*

  11. #331
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Apparently it's better for people to stand around waiting for someone else to do a swim than have them run through a quest killing hobgoblins. *shrug*
    that's why we have variety. a lot of the older quests were like how Braegan described. we don't have those anymore in quests. now its just zerg and kill because "my time is important. I don't want to stand around think how to find crests and get through a maze. it slows my xp/min down."

  12. #332
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    I'm still torn about crucible.

    On one hand I don't have the twitch skills to do elite without evasion for the swim. So if no one I know that has evasion is online I just don't run it now rather than wasting my time to see if a pugger can do it. My other option would be to just level another couple characters to sit at level for it on heroic and elite to be my dual box swimmers and I haven't done that yet.

    On the other hand I don't like flagging and the game in general being made easier by any means even if it's just changing which quests are flags.

  13. #333
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    that's why we have variety. a lot of the older quests were like how Braegan described. we don't have those anymore in quests. now its just zerg and kill because "my time is important. I don't want to stand around think how to find crests and get through a maze. it slows my xp/min down."
    Well, if it isn't popular it isn't popular. But after Crucible quests were created that had puzzles in them of all types. Even MoTU had some puzzles.

    It would be nice to have more quests in the fashion you like, but if it isn't as popular, it just isn't as popular. It's going to get less Dev treatment for the most part.

    You can't force people to like certain quests. Imagine if the Devs created only "escort-type" quests. I don't know about you, but that put a shudder up my spine. Yet I'm sure there are people who would like it. They would have to be very strange, but they would probably like it .

  14. #334
    Community Member Lorianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    that's why we have variety. a lot of the older quests were like how Braegan described. we don't have those anymore in quests. now its just zerg and kill because "my time is important. I don't want to stand around think how to find crests and get through a maze. it slows my xp/min down."
    People are WAY too fixated on exp/minute. "Oh my god, this quest is only 1.3k exp/minute, that's effing garbage, it should be at least 2k/minute or you're wasting my time, Turbine!"

    Meh. They can go suck the sharp end of a vorpal sword.

  15. #335
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    They would have to have had multiple head injuries in their past, but they would probably like it .
    ftfy

  16. #336
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    that's why we have variety. a lot of the older quests were like how Braegan described. we don't have those anymore in quests. now its just zerg and kill because "my time is important. I don't want to stand around think how to find crests and get through a maze. it slows my xp/min down."
    Honestly some of the find the "widget" get thru the puzzle quests are absolutely phenomenal xp/min, once you learn them anyways.

  17. #337
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I'm still torn about crucible.

    On one hand I don't have the twitch skills to do elite without evasion for the swim. So if no one I know that has evasion is online I just don't run it now rather than wasting my time to see if a pugger can do it. My other option would be to just level another couple characters to sit at level for it on heroic and elite to be my dual box swimmers and I haven't done that yet.

    On the other hand I don't like flagging and the game in general being made easier by any means even if it's just changing which quests are flags.
    Really? I would've thought making flagging in general easier as a point of little contention. Because, to me, this is a case where you're not really making the game easier, you're just making the ability to play the game easier.

    I mean, do you really think it makes it easier than piking it while someone else does the swim? Usually me doing the swim, with or without evasion.

  18. #338
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Really? I would've thought making flagging in general easier as a point of little contention. Because, to me, this is a case where you're not really making the game easier, you're just making the ability to play the game easier.

    I mean, do you really think it makes it easier than piking it while someone else does the swim? Usually me doing the swim, with or without evasion.
    It removes a quest that really made people pug, removing reasons to pug and making things easier for soloists is a bad way to go in an mmo imo. Like I said, I like not having to run crucible on some toons but I'm not sure it was a good game health decision. Even after all this time since it was released I still can't decide.

  19. #339
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    It removes a quest that really made people pug, removing reasons to pug and making things easier for soloists is a bad way to go in an mmo imo. Like I said, I like not having to run crucible on some toons but I'm not sure it was a good game health decision. Even after all this time since it was released I still can't decide.
    I think trying to force pugging is a bad idea. Yes, this is an MMO. That's the beauty of it, if I feel like it, I can play with others. But if that means I always have to play with others, then it's going to get played less, because there are times when I just don't feel like playing with others, or people I don't know.

    I much prefer the fact that MMO means that there's a "massive" amount of people I can play with. I'd rather it not mean I have to play with a "massive" amount of people.

    You even said you'd rather not deal with a PuG. You'd rather have someone you know with Evasion do it. So why is forcing other people to maybe have to pug it, something you don't even want to do, a necessary thing for the health of the game?

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Well, by that token there were lots of quests that were quite challenging when they were first released. The Inspired Quarter was nasty as heck when it first came out. So were the Vale quests (Rainbow in the Dark is still my favorite quest in the whole game), Amarath, etc. Once people learn the quests, they become easy because people know what to do. You can make a quest with dozens of insanely hard to figure out puzzles, carefully hidden traps, etc, but the moment people learn the answers and where the boxes are, it becomes trivial.

    Hence my point that you can't truly challenge people in the long term without randomization. When it's always "new" (or at least new-ish) there's always the unknown factor to deal with.

    I've enjoyed the Storm Horns/Wheloon stuff thus far (the purple haze **** notwithstanding), but I tend to solo, and don't have really "minmaxed" builds (and don't TR), so it's still a challenge to me the first couple times running each quest.
    Sure alot of the older quests were a challenge when released and when the ropes were learned it became easier. Same it true of raids. But, it's like they are not even trying anymore. And I did the same, I solod both chains twice over before pugging. I found zero challenge that wasn't answered with either moar DPS and/or moar Hjeals! There wasn't a single time I had to sit and think about what to do next. Everything was very straightforward, no obstacles, no thought, just press W and hold that attack button down!
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

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