I'd be perfectly happy if Turbine would make an effort to make both camps happy. I am definitely looking forward to epic TR, but I wouldn't mind a few raids at end-game as well.
Powergamers expect too much. You cannot play a game 6-10 hours a day for years and expect not to get bored. Playing 2 hours a day with 3 main characters seems to work really well for me... I've never bored, and there's always more stuff for me to do. And sometimes I take breaks when a new single-player comes out, so I'm gone for a week.
Ha! Who cares? We don't need any of that stuff. I don't want the powergamers to leave. I'd like to see a few raids and maybe a seal/shard/scroll equivalent grind for them. Something to keep them busy. But they sure are negative nellies. It wouldn't kill this game if some or all of them left. (The people who play 4 hours a day would just step up and become the new "elite" anyway)..Your view on power gamers leaving having no impact is distorted as well. Who farms those rare items the casual players buy on the ASAH? Other casuals? Nope. Who writes the guides for quests and explorer zones days after they are released? Other casuals? Nope.
I want to see how the hamster wheel looks like tho; are they going to be able to fool me with a painting of the open skies in front of me or am I going to stare into a brick wall. Because destiny leveling have me staring into a brick wall and I'm just getting burnt out.
Having gotten 3 toons to 28 and 1 to 27 so far . . . I think the people in the "epic TR" camp with do this a few times and then hate it as there just isn't enough epic XP to get to 28 without repeating the hell out of content.
Heropic TR doesn't require the repetition of much content, epic is going to be a painful grind unless you whip out your wallet.
I see Epic Leveling Stone in the "Mornekenian's Disjuncted box" or something.
"Why is it important to run it so fast?" I asked.
He said, "Every second wasted running Shroud is a second I could be using to run another Shroud".
It's possible to have an end game for people who want to see 'the end of a journey' and pair it with a system that allow people to start again, try something new and gain incremental power (TRing). I think Turbine just need to start closing the loops on some stories like they did with FoT and stop diluting the pool with the idea that flavorless loot makes people happy. Goals are good - just add 3-4 paths to whatever tingle them and they'll be glad to run in the hamster wheel until it breaks off the hinges.
I would think the casual players represent the largest share of DDO revenue.
CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build
Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).
And not just in games, also in real life.
It's funny because sometimes when I find myself talking about how the point is not just to get somewhere but to enjoy it, I use that to remind myself to do the same in reality as well.
ETA: I don't see people who like the idea of epic TR saying "don't make an endgame". I DO see people who like endgame saying "don't make epic TR".
With the advantage of having different difficulty settings for all content in DDO, there could be some kind of "end game" (as in challenging stuff) at every single level. Since the game relies alot on TRing, this would make much more sense than just a couple top level quests and raids which actually aren't so much challenging atm. Just have to create that one difficulty and adjust rewards accordingly.
Now i'm not saying there shouldn't be much stuff to do at top level since I understand alot of players like to stay there and don't like TRing at all. But yeah... since we get to replay everything again and again (TR or alts), why not push toward that direction?
On TR: Epic True TR would just be another option (surely cheaper than 2 different Hearts in a row) they could offer on top of just Epic TR if you wish to go back to level 1.
Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por
...And then there was silence
As far as quest guides and whatnot are concerned, surely a person so concerned with the integrity of the game would welcome their demise. If a DM ever caught a player looking over a quest module or source notes prior to gaming, that player would be summarily dismissed from the game. Isn't that part of your basic argument; that the game needs to preserve it's PnP roots to remain relevant?
Thus far Turbine has used the crutch of player-supported resources as an excuse to either not update their own, eliminate the existing ones or simply never create any in the first place. Perhaps a hue and cry from the majority over a lack resources might prompt them to release a few. Would that not support the demands for accountability you're always going on about? It would seem to me the potential good that would come from a loss of power gamers far outweighs any downside.
The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)
Meanwhile we have this thread once again claiming that "endgame" is all that matters, and we'll probably have another next week.
What you and others don't seem to grasp is that part of casual gaming is flexibility. If they put in epic TR, I'll probably use it; if they don't, no big deal. If they put in more raids, I'll play them from time to time; if not, no big deal. Same with classes, races, gear and so forth. I care about having fun, and it doesn't matter how that happens.
It's actually the powergaming "must get to the nursing home as fast as possible!" types who scream any time any effort is spent developing anything they don't like.
I'm never on a hamster wheel because I refuse to climb on; you are always on a hamster wheel because you refuse to jump off. That's all there is to it. I've seen you use the computing industry phrase "problem between chair and keyboard" a couple of times -- well, it applies here too.
And come on, casuals won't Epic TR more than once. There's a lot of appeal to the casual play style. 1-and-done TRing is fun, but for the people who now take 3-4 months to TR a toon heroically we're looking at 6-8 months getting from 1-28 at that pace. If you prefer the heroic game (and there's nothing wrong with that, in many ways the heroic game is better) you're not gonna like epic TR.
Last edited by Teh_Troll; 09-20-2013 at 09:17 AM.
Epic elite end game is really all we got for challenge in DDO. The problem is they are taking that away as well. Epic elite end game also has a function of providing players something to shoot for that should not be neglected.
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