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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    now you are pointing the finger in the wrong direction. point it towards Turbine because they are the ones that made random loot more powerful than a lot of the named loot and easy to obtain for everyone. they are the ones that listened to people like you and nerfed questing that affects every type of playstyle to make it easier for casuals, soloists and new players. they are the ones that released a new "expansion" with no raid and most loot not worth really trying to get. they are the ones that cut end game from 7 raids to basically 2-3. they are the ones that cut end game almost completely out to invest in more hamster wheels. they are the ones that develop the loot and cant figure out a proper balance.

    if end game was anything like pre-MOTU than people like Maddmatt, me and many others would not be here talking about how end game needs to be juiced up again and not just about an ED or ETR hamster wheel.
    Lol they listened to players like me? Are you kidding?

    I hate the new random loot. Its generic and stupidly easy to acquire amazing pieces. I think random loot should have potential to provide some best in slot pieces...but such pieces should be super amazingly rare. Rare to the point that if you got one you'd be like that guy on the server with the one of a kind thing.

    As far as nerfing questing, I've hated dungeon scaling since its inception. Why would I want to make things easier for casuals and new players? When I was a new player you know what I did, I ran quests on casual and normal. I got through. It wasn't all that hard. Soloists? I'm playing an online game so I can play with people, stupid dungeon scaling that makes things easier to just solo then run with a pug is an awful idea. Prior to dungeon scaling if I wanted to make a quest easier I got more people in my group, not less.

    What because of people like me turbine made end game suck? Yeah...you called it, I was on the secret panel of players that helped turbine design the last two expansions lol. I got news for you...end game sucked pre motu, and it sucks now. It was never good. With the exception of ToD only reason I ran most the other "end game" raids was because they dropped awesome twink gear with level reqs of 11-13 and a lot of it was useful all the way back up to level 20. It wasn't better then because you had 7 raids to farm into oblivion and now you have 2-3, it just meant you had to spend a little more time running on the hamster wheel to get what you want.

    That little rant actually made me LOL becuase it was about as far from reality as you could have gotten.

  2. #142
    Community Member Turbosilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    This . . .

    If all you're looking for is XP the best path is a boring challenge-free snoozfest. The pursuit of loot was a better end-game.
    +5
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  3. #143

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    I vote epic TR. I have absolutely no interest in grinding end game for loot.

    And besides, why are the two options mutually exclusive? In fact, I suspect there was no raid included in the last update because as soon as cap goes to 30, it's pretty much obsolete. A level 30 raid will be useful, as 30 will be max level EVER in DDO.

    And leveling epic destinies is not hard. Stop exaggerating.

  4. #144
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    It means something to be heroic, as it gives us an introduction to the game and allows us to make a difference in what our characters do (Reincarnation, completing quests, rewards, exc.)

    But Epic offers very little that's new. It's just another system. Some of the things I would REALLY like to see at epic levels to make it unique and outstanding would be:


    • More planar travel!
    • Ways to 'trailblaze' in-game, by developing new spells, adding functions to heroic skills, stuff that heroic characters normally would not do.
    • Doing stuff that's comparable to, say, dropping a nuclear bomb. More shock and awe is needed at epic levels.


    Additionally, here are some things that should NOT be done:


    • Giving epic TR'ing heroic benefits that would hurt, such as increased DC's, HP, SP, exc. at heroic levels.
    • Adding more levels without much detail.
    • Being overly complicated. (A non-related example is using multiple forms of event currency, such as at crystal cove. Just have doubloons of a single type!)


    My mind isn't at it's best, so I can't really think of much, but the main thing I want to see is epic making a bigger difference than it is now. Make it on par with heroic, so that way people who like heroic can stay with heroic, and people who like epic can go with epic.

    However, the problem with epic is that it will be difficult to keep-up with the game without causing it to fall apart more than it already has. You thought heroic levels were hard to maintain? Epic will throw you some curves you can't dodge. Funny how it was foreseen long ago about how epic would cause lots of problems for DDO due to it's inherent nature. However, given that this game is free of the majority of rules that bind DDO, it might stand a chance if more effort is put into it.
    Last edited by knightgf; 09-19-2013 at 09:56 PM.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  5. #145
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood View Post

    And leveling epic destinies is not hard. Stop exaggerating.
    You're right it's not hard, just soul crushingly boring to do, yes I want to lower my characters power to grind absurd amounts of xp. I'm mostly done with it, and glad I am, I came very close to uninstalling while doing it because it's such a bad system.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    LOL - they'll all be running easy stuff on EH.

    You have to be kidding me?
    Did you not just say earlier in the thread that you run EE as soon as you get to 20 (assuming the quest will let you in) because most power comes from ED's rather than levels? Do you not exist? If what you said is true then clearly some people will be running EE. Most people don't run EE even now on capped characters because of the people you have to put up with. You go into the quest in an off destiny causing the quest to be a little more challenging and people get all upset. Apparently the people claiming that they run EE for challenge are just blowing smoke or they wouldn't be upset when someone comes in an off destiny and makes the quest a little more challenging.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  7. #147
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Did you not just say earlier in the thread that you run EE as soon as you get to 20 (assuming the quest will let you in) because most power comes from ED's rather than levels? Do you not exist? If what you said is true then clearly some people will be running EE. Most people don't run EE even now on capped characters because of the people you have to put up with. You go into the quest in an off destiny causing the quest to be a little more challenging and people get all upset. Apparently the people claiming that they run EE for challenge are just blowing smoke or they wouldn't be upset when someone comes in an off destiny and makes the quest a little more challenging.
    Except the new level gating means he somewhat can't and will be limited to eh for a little while at least, or limited to doing the easiest epics.

  8. #148
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Unzipping and peeing a burning stream all over your destinies had best be worth something flippn amazing. And by amazing I don't mean the sad useless TR perks save for mayhaps 3 in the specific case of a few select classes. And that was before ED's, before epic difficulties.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I like being challenged and find that levelling provides no challenge. I enjoy DDO's combat system and character creation system, but that is not sufficient without a challenge.
    Honestly this sounds like a problem (that a lot of players have) with character design. Most players design characters to make the game as easy as possible, which is counterproductive if you are looking for a challenge. Next time you make a multiclass character ask why you are multiclassing. Is it to make the game easier (e.g. splash for evasion or UMD so you can self heal)? If so, you probably shouldn't do that if you want a challenge. There are relatively weak classes (pure spellsinger bards) that you can play that provide a much greater challenge. But just because a game has some easy classes to play (or easy multiclass combinations) doesn't mean the game is automatically too easy. It means people that want a challenge should probably pick classes and gear that will help them achieve their goal of being challenged. For some reason the same people that will play single player games on the hardest difficulty setting because they like challenge tend to play MMO's on the easiest difficulty setting and refuse to try the harder settings.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  10. #150
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd rather say "yes" to both Epic TR and Epic Endgame.

    The idea that we don't lose access to EDs and twists but rather to the minimal benefits that levels 21-28 provide is fine with me. And in exchange for those minimal benefits (3 Epic Feats and 2 Epic Destiny Feats- no I'm not going to count the hp and skill point gain) you gain an Epic Past Life Feat, seems like an okay endgame concept, as long as there is an effort to create more quests (and raids would be really nice too, not that I'm even an avid raider) at Epic levels for us to use our new Epic Past Life Feats on.

    Since I lose far less power in an Epic TR than in a Heroic TR, I can continue to play endgame content at a challenging level while leveling back up. So it should feel more like the level is expanding rather than simply being part of a circle. Like I'm at "level 29" rather than at "level 1".

    I'm not looking forward to another system that wants me to go two steps back to go one step forward, but if Turbine can also spend some time developing a decent endgame, then it could work out for quite a bunch of us.

  11. #151
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Honestly this sounds like a problem (that a lot of players have) with character design. Most players design characters to make the game as easy as possible, which is counterproductive if you are looking for a challenge. Next time you make a multiclass character ask why you are multiclassing. Is it to make the game easier (e.g. splash for evasion or UMD so you can self heal)? If so, you probably shouldn't do that if you want a challenge. There are relatively weak classes (pure spellsinger bards) that you can play that provide a much greater challenge. But just because a game has some easy classes to play (or easy multiclass combinations) doesn't mean the game is automatically too easy. It means people that want a challenge should probably pick classes and gear that will help them achieve their goal of being challenged. For some reason the same people that will play single player games on the hardest difficulty setting because they like challenge tend to play MMO's on the easiest difficulty setting and refuse to try the harder settings.
    One of the biggest problems with gimping yourself to add challenge in a multi-player game is that you're also adding challenge to other players in some way or other. You make other people figure, why would they ever want to play with you when another player on a more optimal build could have filled the slot better.

    It's not as cut and dry as what I'm presentin, but it is part of the reason why in a single player game I'm far more gung-ho to gimp myself than in a multi-player game, which is what MMO kinda stands for. And it's not about playing on the easiest setting. It's about not playing on the hardest setting with a character that pretends it couldn't have been built "better".

    And I know a liitle something about playing on a suboptimal class. I play a Paladin after all. And I think I do it quite well.

  12. #152
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Honestly this sounds like a problem (that a lot of players have) with character design. Most players design characters to make the game as easy as possible, which is counterproductive if you are looking for a challenge. Next time you make a multiclass character ask why you are multiclassing. Is it to make the game easier (e.g. splash for evasion or UMD so you can self heal)? If so, you probably shouldn't do that if you want a challenge. There are relatively weak classes (pure spellsinger bards) that you can play that provide a much greater challenge. But just because a game has some easy classes to play (or easy multiclass combinations) doesn't mean the game is automatically too easy. It means people that want a challenge should probably pick classes and gear that will help them achieve their goal of being challenged. For some reason the same people that will play single player games on the hardest difficulty setting because they like challenge tend to play MMO's on the easiest difficulty setting and refuse to try the harder settings.
    so you are saying if we want to challenge ourselves we shouldn't build powerful characters? that makes as much sense as not wearing gear and swinging a club of the holy flame. yeah ive seen these senseless proposals of doing things like that if we want to feel challenged many times on here. one of the biggest draws of DDO is the zillion ways you can build a character. at one time DDO was actually challenging from level 1 through 20 and it was fun. now the challenge has been swiped out from under our feet and the game made easier for new players. for some of us it isn't challenging anymore which becomes boring. the problem isn't the numerous build options. the problem is quest design and balance.

  13. #153
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    I'm saying NO to Epic True Reincarnation because no such system has been proposed. There is no such thing.

    Epic Reincarnation on the other hand, could have some merit, but should not be mutually exclusive with Epic endgame.

  14. #154
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    I'm saying NO to Epic True Reincarnation because no such system has been proposed. There is no such thing.

    Epic Reincarnation on the other hand, could have some merit, but should not be mutually exclusive with Epic endgame.
    Please don't argue semantics. You know what the op meant, it doesn't really get anyone anywhere in the discussion. At best you're ignored for it and at worst you start a flame war with it.

  15. #155
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Because it's different from the stuff you've run 1000 times before.

    Something you've run 50 times before is less boring than something you've run 1000 times.
    Nonsense. After the 10th time it's all the same.

    Though I never get sick of "Purge the Heretics." There's just something about murdering halflings that never gets old.

  16. #156
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Default Teh_Trolls true identity


  17. #157
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Compared to what? Running the same 15 quests repeatedly for a past life that gets you a +1 to a mod for tactics, damage or spell pen?
    Is that how you do it?

    TRing is equally mind munbing as raiding.
    It is if you do it the way you describe above. But you don't have to do it that way. Ergo, it doesn't have to be mind numbing.

    TRing can be a blast because it's replaying the entire game, usually with a different build than before, so it's a slightly different experience. If you don't enjoy TRing and you don't enjoy end-game, why the heck are you people still here?

    Look, again I use my Max Payne 3 example... I replayed it all the way through recently. It had been 4 months since I last played it, so it was quite fun again.

    Here's what I didn't do... I didn't replay level 2 ten times in a row, then level 6 ten times in a row all in one week, then the following week do the exact same thing, then the following week do the exact same thing, then the following week do the exact same thing, and THEN... go to the Max Payne forums and complain that the game was boring and too grindy.

    If you repeat the same stuff over and over, week after week, and then complain about it, you're a grade A moron. No ifs, ands, or buts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #158
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    This really needs to be my sig. Come on devs, sell more sig space in the DDO store!

  19. #159
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Nonsense. After the 10th time it's all the same.
    I've played Waterworks 500+ times, and I'll admit it's pretty boring now, as is most of the harbor (still fun to level though)

    I still enjoy Stormcleave and Tears and Tempest Spine though. Some of the newer quests I've only played 10-20 times, and they are still semi-new to me...

    I think the difference is you play them 10 times in a week... I play them 10 times over a year.

    I hadn't ran a Shroud or a ToD for probably 6 months, and I did both a week or two back, and they were fun again, even though I've run them 200+ times each.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  20. #160
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Honestly this sounds like a problem (that a lot of players have) with character design. Most players design characters to make the game as easy as possible, which is counterproductive if you are looking for a challenge. Next time you make a multiclass character ask why you are multiclassing. Is it to make the game easier (e.g. splash for evasion or UMD so you can self heal)? If so, you probably shouldn't do that if you want a challenge. There are relatively weak classes (pure spellsinger bards) that you can play that provide a much greater challenge. But just because a game has some easy classes to play (or easy multiclass combinations) doesn't mean the game is automatically too easy. It means people that want a challenge should probably pick classes and gear that will help them achieve their goal of being challenged. For some reason the same people that will play single player games on the hardest difficulty setting because they like challenge tend to play MMO's on the easiest difficulty setting and refuse to try the harder settings.
    Yep... I have a THF barbarian/fighter with no UMD and no evasion and no manyshot for this exact reason. He plays very differently from my evasion TWF ranger/monk melee guy.

    No one wants to play a total gimp, but sometimes it's smart to play a different type of character to change things up a bit. You don't have to always play the most powerful build out there.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 09-20-2013 at 08:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

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