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  1. #601
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I wish. I would love to see those who carry on about "real raid games" doing a complete 180, because that is how raids are in "real raid focused games". DDO used to be like this. Shroud was hard as hell when it came out. There was no guaranteed completion. There were alot more folks running around with t2 greensteel who took eons to finish a t3. Titan took a long time to figure out. VOD elite was an automatic mana potion buy in. HOX used to regularly fail. Compare that to nowdays where the raid is released, servers come up at 10AM, and by noon there are three guilds trolling eachother on the forums about who got the first completion on live.

    I still think this game needs raids though, as well as more quests to go with them.
    Unlimited blue-bar allows you to work wonders.

    Say . . . it's been a while since we had an anti SP-pot thread, lets schedule one for Thursday. This topic will die down by then and we need a new one to carry us through the weekend.

  2. #602
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Okay so bear with me.

    Here it is, a raid that requires you to run 4 raids to flag every time you want to run it(so 5 raids). Parts of the item(loots) drop in every raid so you need to put them together like a jigsaw puzzle see with the last part being super low drop rate in the final 5th raid.

    So a new wilderness area but instead of quests all raids!!! With low drop rates to make sure raiders can play them for a long time!

    People could like plan this for their whole night to be a raidathon, Shuuuuweeeet. Best part is if you don't like raids you don't need to buy that pack only the raiders will want it!

    Crazy ideas i know..

  3. #603
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Is capping the rest of your characters going to be fun or not fun?

    If fun, then why will you quit when they offer you a chance to do it again, and increase your character's power to boot?

    If not fun, why in the world are you going to do something un-fun, and THEN quit?
    Not that much fun. I still have been able to get in some EE end game which is fun and helps the unfun times, although that is getting less and less and it appears that I have to solo EE end game now mostly, sigh. I have played DDO for a number of years and have some optimism for the future. The devs have made some nice quests and raids over the years so giving them a little bit of latitude. Had a few other lean times like right before DDO went free to play and expanded to level 20 and the devs did come through on that one.
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  4. #604

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I wish. I would love to see those who carry on about "real raid games" doing a complete 180, because that is how raids are in "real raid focused games". DDO used to be like this. Shroud was hard as hell when it came out. There was no guaranteed completion. There were alot more folks running around with t2 greensteel who took eons to finish a t3. Titan took a long time to figure out. VOD elite was an automatic mana potion buy in. HOX used to regularly fail. Compare that to nowdays where the raid is released, servers come up at 10AM, and by noon there are three guilds trolling eachother on the forums about who got the first completion on live.

    I still think this game needs raids though, as well as more quests to go with them.
    The mechanics of Hound still made it a challenge in DPS, patience and coordination until 1k+ hits became the new norm. VODs exploding bats at the end could fail a raid that was 95% in the pocket. ToD could fail in the room as the kiter died and a stunned healer made the tanks wellbeing frail at the final stage.

    In short, raids were designed to fail. LoB had those qualities as well, but there the mechanic to get to the raid is what killed it, moreso then the game running away from the need of the items you could create.

  5. #605
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Unlimited blue-bar allows you to work wonders.
    Yeah, it also conditions players to expect two things. 1. Failure shouldnt ever occur, and 2. Two to four players will guzzle the other eight to ten players to victory through the first few days while those that didnt play it on Lamannia get the mechanics down pat. In "real raid games" (lol) those runs are fails until people learn the mechanics. Sometimes its a few months before a guild of people who always run together have it on /farm where its an easy run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Say . . . it's been a while since we had an anti SP-pot thread, lets schedule one for Thursday. This topic will die down by then and we need a new one to carry us through the weekend.
    That should be just long enough to finalize the transactions to acquire more shares of Redenbacher.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The person who only runs raids eats the same chocolate chip cookies every day, then blames keebler when their ass doesnt fit into the chair anymore. The person who advocates TRing eats cookies, then doritos, then pie, then McDonalds, then cake, then...you get the picture. When they make fun of the guy who ONLY likes cookies, its a direct contradiction, because they are loading up just like the cookie guy is loading up, they just have more of a variety of junk food to do so on.
    That variety matters, though. It's one reason the "endgamers" complain about a lack of raids far more than TRers complain about a lack of quests. We could use more of both, but you get sick of the cookies less specifically because you're eating other things.

    Unrelated: last life I was in an elite HoX that failed miserably, despite many epic players.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    That variety matters, though. It's one reason the "endgamers" complain about a lack of raids far more than TRers complain about a lack of quests. We could use more of both, but you get sick of the cookies less specifically because you're eating other things.

    Unrelated: last life I was in an elite HoX that failed miserably, despite many epic players.
    Shiite I am agreeing with you again Q. The end for all is surely nigh.

  8. #608
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    That variety matters, though. It's one reason the "endgamers" complain about a lack of raids far more than TRers complain about a lack of quests. We could use more of both, but you get sick of the cookies less specifically because you're eating other things.

    Unrelated: last life I was in an elite HoX that failed miserably, despite many epic players.
    The thing is in many cases you're talking about people who are even more sick about eating those other things. I'm sick of all the rest of that junk food. The only one that I can still eat and get some enjoyment out IS the cookies. The rest taste pretty damn bad after having eaten my fill of them a long time ago. The cookies at least don't taste like ash to me, so I can still eat them.

    I do agree that variety matters, but what that variety is also matters. I don't consider running lower level quests as variety because I don't care for them any more. I'd rather replay a quest at high level than a quest at low level.

    I'm not saying there's anything at all wrong with people who feel exactly the opposite way, but the simple "variety" of re-playing parts of the game I long outgrew, is not worth much in my book.

    Of course, "endgamers" complain about the lack of raids. Because there is a lack of raids at end game. And let's not forget that TRers have indeed complained about a lack of quests quite often. Whether it's a lack of a variety of quests because they are tired of running the same quests or a lack of high level quests at the levels that progress started to peter out, they have certainly complained about lack of quests. They've complained less as time has gone by because Turbine has provided more quests here and there to help the leveling process for people on 3rd lives and such.

    They've provided considerably less in terms of end game raids however, meaning endgamers have more to complain about.

  9. #609
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    What's especially dumb about the whole thing is that there are a ton of raids that people would run again if they just updated the XP and/or items. This would be huge bang for the buck and probably make Turbine a bunch of money while also making players much happier. Instead they seem to have devoted most of their resources to a very half-hearted expansion with few quests, no raid and fairly awful loot, which likely took 100x the effort that the update to existing raids would require.

    It's just not wise product management, and I don't understand it at all.

  10. #610
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    remember when there used to be raid trains? now its more like riding your bike to the end of the driveway and back.

  11. #611
    2015 DDO Players Council Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    remember when there used to be raid trains? now its more like riding your bike to the end of the driveway and back.
    Those were great, I remember my guild was active enough to have two full guild raid trains going at once...now so many people got driven away I can barely form a 6 man party reliably without hitting the channels.
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  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    remember when there used to be raid trains? now its more like riding your bike to the end of the driveway and back.
    It was lvl 1-20 with double or more players. Now we have lvl 1-28, more content (MotU, High Road, Druid Deep, Shadowfell etc.), and of course half the players.

    Doing TR was harder (or longer) as well, these days any average player can manage a legend life less than 4 weeks... back to those days it wasn't an easy walk back to cap.

    So, DDO has much less players now, and lot of them don't pug anymore, being busy with TRs, guild / friend runs, (god forgives me) playing on an iconic, etc.

    DDO changed, and the players changed as well.

  13. #613
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Those were great, I remember my guild was active enough to have two full guild raid trains going at once...now so many people got driven away I can barely form a 6 man party reliably without hitting the channels.
    The good old days . . . that truly were better.

  14. #614
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalinaa View Post
    It was lvl 1-20 with double or more players. Now we have lvl 1-28, more content (MotU, High Road, Druid Deep, Shadowfell etc.), and of course half the players.

    Doing TR was harder (or longer) as well, these days any average player can manage a legend life less than 4 weeks... back to those days it wasn't an easy walk back to cap.

    So, DDO has much less players now, and lot of them don't pug anymore, being busy with TRs, guild / friend runs, (god forgives me) playing on an iconic, etc.

    DDO changed, and the players changed as well.
    Its worse than that. the whole game is in a lul.

    Boredom with any game is a terrible thing, if DDO cant figure out how to keep the in-game shinies dangling in front of me to distract me from real life then they are heading for doom....


    I am part of a large guild (976 members), we used to have 50+ players on at any point in time, 2+ full guild run endgame raids every night, raid trains for all the other raids, allways an open shroud going, multiple TR groups, and quickly fill out any party voids via channels in seconds.

    Now I am seeing generally 6-10 players on, channels are not enough to fill groups let alone raids, Pug raids/groups are just folding after no one joins after half an hour.

    Crafting system has been neglected for over a year.

    Augments are still incomplete., no resolution to old augments and the missing catalysts, **** low level augments no way come near to being as usefull as the guild augments, especially with the level increase impact effect.

    Enhancmement tree's still incomplete.. supposed to be 3 for every class...Even the ones we have need work.

    Mabar bugs still not resolved,
    Mobs seem more balanced, but too many "not high enough level mobs" not dropping loot in the 26-30 level instnances makes no sense. I was seeing 22-24 level mobs.
    Mabar event loots were not scaled for higher levels, .. granted they did add some interesting stuff, but being unable to completed a dragon due to lag and not enough keys was an issue.
    new mechanic of 1x/day reward screws weekend warriors,... 14 hours of playtime should = 14 hours of reward.. not oh sorry you played your 14 hours saturday night on pizza and redbull so you only get 1 reward vs the casual 2hour/day player who gets 7 and reaps the rewards.

    Wheloon loot is ****. period. worthless end chain rewards for permannet shavarath GH effect outfits with nothing else on them is complete garbage.. these should have had 3 open augment slots to make them even worth looking at.

    Shadowfade effect causes lag on my video card during the transition shift, and the video impact is horendous... the shadowfade helm clickie should have been a protection from shadowfade clickie.. that would have made that non-epic worthy helm usefull.

    ..DDO is supposed to be a complicated intricate game not a macro buttonmasher, dont oversimplify the game for morons... this is a thinking game...
    DDO seems to be trying to evolve to a WOW wannabie, if we wanted WOW we would be playing WOW.....


    I get the impression that the cashflow from the game is being siphoned off to WB instead of being reinvested into DDO staff and content.

    Feathers recent retoractive changes to my precious low level non-standard loot that I spent years collecting has left me disgruntled.

    Ongoing lack of real support from in-game GM's for in-game issues - cant help you or autoclose ticket is still prevelent.
    ..The lack of fixing Epic 20th completions cost me 2 epic end rewards for FOT/CITW which both came up in the same week..
    ..in-game GM's dont care if Cordovan says they will fix the timers, they didnt and they didnt care he posted it in the forums that they would.
    ..So either Cordovan is full of it or he is beneath GM's and has no influence over their actions... either way I was still screwed out of my rewards...more disgruntlement..


    Lots of other issues, but I am seeing long term vested players saying screw DDO, and moving off to play with other games

    If DDO isnt committed to keeping me entertained and happy why would I stay committed to DDO...

    I now spend most of my time soloing or small group running xp to cap out epic destinies, get bored then log off to go play minecraft, while waiting for the Skyrim MMO to see if it is a diamond in the ruff or another fail like Neverwinter.

    Not a good sign when I go from playing 6+ hours a night (coming into work the next day all bleary eyed cause I just had to play a little bit more...) to 1-2 and even contemplating not bothering to log on at all and do laundry/dishes instead..
    Jotmon -
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  15. #615
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post

    Not a good sign when I go from playing 6+ hours a night (coming into work the next day all bleary eyed cause I just had to play a little bit more...) to 1-2 and even contemplating not bothering to log on at all and do laundry/dishes instead..
    Monday I cleaned the bathroom, you know scrub the toliet and all of that instead of logging on.........

  16. #616

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    What's especially dumb about the whole thing is that there are a ton of raids that people would run again if they just updated the XP and/or items. This would be huge bang for the buck and probably make Turbine a bunch of money while also making players much happier. Instead they seem to have devoted most of their resources to a very half-hearted expansion with few quests, no raid and fairly awful loot, which likely took 100x the effort that the update to existing raids would require.

    It's just not wise product management, and I don't understand it at all.
    Make them have a chance to drop comms and they'll be ran again.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Its worse than that. the whole game is in a lul.
    "Lul" is the best word for it. We still have too much stuff up in the air with ETR on the close horizon. I'm just trying to get my guys to 28 and let them sit there until ETR becomes a reality, there isn't anything else to do.

  18. #618
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    That variety matters, though. It's one reason the "endgamers" complain about a lack of raids far more than TRers complain about a lack of quests. We could use more of both, but you get sick of the cookies less specifically because you're eating other things.

    Unrelated: last life I was in an elite HoX that failed miserably, despite many epic players.
    Right, variety matters, which means those people who are talking about Turbine stopping raid creation to focus on quests only are incorrect. I noticed that one of the more vocal ones claims to agree with you, but all of their previous posts are claiming endgamers to be the cancer of the game, and claim that Turbine should only focus on casual gamers and can survive doing so.

    TRs complain the same amount as endgamers, just about different semantics, but most relating to grind. Lumping TRs into the same category as casual gamers, is false demographics. They are not one and the same. I see just as many TRs who run from start to finish as fast as possible to get the highest XP/min possible as I do endgamers who only enjoy running the same few raids and EE quests for specific gear. I do not believe the implication that the TRs are all just enjoying the game at their own moderate pace - as ive seen enough of them post on these forums that since they have done it all already, theres no reason to stop and smell the flowers.

    However, even if every TR was sniffing the flowers on their way to running one life in 4 months, it still doesnt change the observation that while I see some casual gamers saying ditch the powergamers and only focus on casuals, I dont see any power gamers saying to ditch the casuals and only focus on raids. Each time we get another raid, we get more quests as well, so when Turbine puts some focus on raids, they are also broadening the game for everyone, including casual players, TRs, and powergamers.

  19. #619
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Its worse than that. the whole game is in a lul.

    <snip>
    You summed up my feelings about the game. I bought points during this recent "double point week" but I believe they will be my last. I am also planning to cancel my VIP subscription at the end of the year if some significant changes to the endgame have not been made or are at least not in the works (i.e. on Lam) by then. I am done handing over money to a company that obviously not only doesn't give a damn about its customer base but actually seems to approach them with contempt.

    I still enjoy logging on and running stuff with my guildies, when I see them on, but they feel the same way. There is just nothing to do right now. Why run EEs, when all of the relevant loot (i.e. +20 items) is easily obtainable on the SAH for dirt cheap? The new EEs aren't even challenging. WGU was completed the first day-- it may have taken a couple hours the first try but we didn't fail. Why TR, and have to suffer through re-flagging for everything, when our toons are already powerful enough to do anything on EE? It's all circular, and it all points to there being no reason to log in at all.

    Speaking of Mabar: Mabar is a huge bust-- the preview was the most bored and frustrated I have been with DDO in a long, long time. I failed the dragon twice, after wasting a total of about four hours there. Screw that noise. At least, before, I had a reason to grind out motes and stuff. Now, everything centers on killing the dragon.

  20. #620
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Make them have a chance to drop comms and they'll be ran again.
    For what? To upgrade Web weapons? Nobody runs Web much, anymore. The only weapons anyone wants out of there anyway are the bows and the greataxe. The rest are garbage.

    To upgrade dragonscale armor? Black is the only one worth upgrading, and even that gives very minor bonuses for the amount of coms involved.

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