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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Never used to be this way. IF you dont remember when the game was challenging enough then it is yourself who is not veteran enough. Turbine turned the game into the snoozefest it is today, but the game was not like this during the first 3-4 years.
    I remember failing Shroud at level, do anyone ever fail shroud now?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Never used to be this way. IF you dont remember when the game was challenging enough then it is yourself who is not veteran enough. Turbine turned the game into the snoozefest it is today, but the game was not like this during the first 3-4 years.
    I disagree completely. DDO has always been easy. Once you memorize a quest, this game is completely easy. There is no randomness. All it takes to be good at DDO, and all it's ever taken, boils down to this. See encounter you've seen 10000 times --> React to encounter the same successful way you have 10000 times. It has always been this way. Before MOTU, it may have taken more of a group to successfully counter, but that shouldn't be mistaken for difficulty.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It's quite clear that you and I greatly differ on our opinions about game design and the way game design works. There isn't much more to say, other than, with the way DDO is designed and always will be designed, more "endgame" will simply increase the population jump after updates and the population wane shortly after. My belief is that Turbine should no longer worry about these types of players and instead focus their design choices on those people that play the game in a constant manner and try to grow this audience.
    Grow it from all the gamers that have been in a coma the last 7 years? The potential for growth, short of a revolutionary change isn't all that great for a game this old with graphics this old and an engine this old. Just to much newer competition to expect more than a trickle of new players without something like the change to f2p to bring them in. Epic TRing wont be that something.

  4. #24
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I disagree completely. DDO has always been easy. Once you memorize a quest, this game is completely easy. There is no randomness. All it takes to be good at DDO, and all it's ever taken, boils down to this. See encounter you've seen 10000 times --> React to encounter the same successful way you have 10000 times. It has always been this way. Before MOTU, it may have taken more of a group to successfully counter, but that shouldn't be mistaken for difficulty.
    Nope. Even as soon as U11, the game was still challenging. +7 items were the best, the epic Abashai set was the best for melees, and TOD rings were the best accessories. Bosses got buffed HP and Fortification, which made them much more difficult, and you had the Epic Lord of Blades as the ultimate boss for veteran players to strive to conquer. Very few groups were able to actually accomplish this.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Nope. Even as soon as U11, the game was still challenging. +7 items were the best, the epic Abashai set was the best for melees, and TOD rings were the best accessories. Bosses got buffed HP and Fortification, which made them much more difficult, and you had the Epic Lord of Blades as the ultimate boss for veteran players to strive to conquer. Very few groups were able to actually accomplish this.
    Very few pugs were able to accomplish this. I was here during U11. Good players had no problem with LOB.

  6. #26
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    About half my serious characters are TRs and the other half are into the epic levels. They might TR in the future. But currently I am finding the epic levels really really boring, and I have been playing my TR characters a lot more than my end game characters. I don't particularly care about the science behind game design, but end game is currently boring. They do need more end-game content, and the raid they are working on won't cut it for me, because I also despise the forgotten realms and won't play that content. So for me, they need more endgame content that is not FR or I'll never play much endgame at all.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  7. #27
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Very few pugs were able to accomplish this. I was here during U11. Good players had no problem with LOB.
    You have a strange view of history. Very few groups were able to beat epic elite LOB for the first few months it was out. Even Epic Hard Lob was no cakewalk for pugs.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  8. #28
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Its more fun to play quests and raids, etc. where there is some sort of challenge. Levelling is an easy snoozefest. Trubine has never addressed that aspect of DDO that levelling is an easy snoozefest.
    you are welcome to stay at cap and raid your life away no one is forcing you to Epic Reincarnate

    TR is a big part of what makes DDO stand out from other cookie cutter MMOs

    I for one look forward to Epic Reincarnation

  9. #29
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    I have already said NO to epic destiny TRing, on a personal level. There is NO way Im going to grind through the destinies a second time on any of my toons. And I don't really care what the benefits will be.

    Just this last week, I finally got to the point where I could twist 'sense weakness' on my rogue.

    And I agree with #4 of your list, the rest... not so much.
    Epic Reincarnation will not reset your EDs

  10. #30
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    These developers and producers continue to neglect and discourage end game
    To me, playing epic quests and raids IS endgame. Epic TR'ing just means I get to do it with more goodies.
    It's a matter of perspective, as all things are.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You have a strange view of history. Very few groups were able to beat epic elite LOB for the first few months it was out. Even Epic Hard Lob was no cakewalk for pugs.
    Except that epic was just epic then. There was just normal/hard/elite and epic. Epic hard and epic elite came with MotU.

  12. #32
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Except that epic was just epic then. There was just normal/hard/elite and epic. Epic hard and epic elite came with MotU.
    Right I mean epic. Epic was only beaten by a handful of groups for the first few months it was out.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  13. #33
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Except that epic was just epic then. There was just normal/hard/elite and epic. Epic hard and epic elite came with MotU.
    Doesn't matter, most still had a very hard time with LOB when if first came out on all difficulties. I have screenshots (for black-mailing purposes) of 50+ death normal runs.

  14. #34
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Right I mean epic. Epic was only beaten by a handful of groups for the first few months it was out.
    Epic was only beaten by a handful for groups until MoTU came out.

    But it gave you a "mountain to climb," something to aim for. A reason to make your toons better which is something the current game lacks. This is why the current TR-mechanic is nothing but a big dumb hamster wheel . . . there is no reason to work on making toons more powerful.

  15. #35
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    I will admit that ddo needs a better end game with more raids.

    however when the level cap was 20 I was not inclined to stay at cap and farm the regularly run raids.

    I won't likely sit at 28 and run Raids if they introduced some new ones. Not until I am done collecting all the PL and EPL feats that I decide I would like.

  16. #36
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    The developers and producers of DDO are content on forcing another hamster wheel which has little meaning down our throats. These developers and producers continue to neglect and discourage end game through the following:
    1. Poor destiny system which discourages end game play.
    2. No new raids.
    3. Poor End Game Named Loot.
    4. More tradeable named loot on the Shard Exchange discouraging more players from playing end game.
    5. New system and developer time spent on a new system which discourages end game (Epic True Reincarnation).
    6. No new system which encourages end game play. I have read many proposed systems on these forums, but I have yet to see anything added in quite sometime for the end game.
    7. Poor End Game Quest Experience.

    Count me out.
    I'm not going to say no to epic reincarnation, but you are right about end game. There needs more focus there because right now loot is too easy to get, bypass raid timers and there's on 2 played out raids. Before epic levels we had 7 raids that people ran as end game and the shard/seal/scroll farming kept us busy at 20. Right now there is no reason to stay in epic levels except to ED grind and farm for loot. Nobody is there to play with.

  17. #37
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Epic was only beaten by a handful for groups until MoTU came out.

    But if gave you a "mountain to climb," something to aim for. A reason to make your toons better which is something the current game lacks.
    I agree 100%. That is why I can not play the current DDO. They have totally neglected the peak of the mountain - the reason to make someone's characters better. I think playing closer to the peak where the challenge is more fun play as well. I want a game with a nice peak and a lot of opportunities to play close to the peak or at the peak.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  18. #38
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I remember failing Shroud at level, do anyone ever fail shroud now?
    I remember getting xp from Shroud when the level cap was 20.

    Now I don't even run it because there is no XP in it. with over level players... unless you run it at level (filling an at level Shroud takes too long compared to getting the xp elsewhere)

  19. #39
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Epic was only beaten by a handful for groups until MoTU came out.

    But it gave you a "mountain to climb," something to aim for. A reason to make your toons better which is something the current game lacks. This is why the current TR-mechanic is nothing but a big dumb hamster wheel . . . there is no reason to work on making toons more powerful.
    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I agree 100%. That is why I can not play the current DDO. They have totally neglected the peak of the mountain - the reason to make someone's characters better. I think playing closer to the peak where the challenge is more fun play as well. I want a game with a nice peak and a lot of opportunities to play close to the peak or at the peak.
    Ok so this is my delusion,

    ETR might be easier and quicker to code than several new raids to create an endgame. They're giving us a quick new hamster wheel to give us something to do while they create the new endgame.

    Don't kill my last delusion please. Pretty Please?

  20. #40
    Community Member Luxgolg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    The developers and producers of DDO are content on forcing another hamster wheel which has little meaning down our throats. These developers and producers continue to neglect and discourage end game through the following:
    1. Poor destiny system which discourages end game play.
    2. No new raids.
    3. Poor End Game Named Loot.
    4. More tradeable named loot on the Shard Exchange discouraging more players from playing end game.
    5. New system and developer time spent on a new system which discourages end game (Epic True Reincarnation).
    6. No new system which encourages end game play. I have read many proposed systems on these forums, but I have yet to see anything added in quite sometime for the end game.
    7. Poor End Game Quest Experience.

    Count me out.
    You promise this time? That you'll be out. Complain all you want, its their design and their rules. We all agree to the TOS and EULA if we are playing. All we can do is make suggestions as to how we would like the game to progress and evolve. This whole game has been turned on its head several times in the past 2 years with changes, with the game itself and the staff. Its not worth the time to complain about the same stuff for 5 years. Just play the game, and be a good little mushroom.

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