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  1. #301
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Not really - I mean the quest is still there. Only the flagging changed.
    Indeed, and was replaced in the flagging requirement by a "run forward and kill mobs" style quest.

  2. #302
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    Very glad that the extraordinarily vocal minority who use the forums aren't a real indication of the actual in game experience, or I'd think DDO was a war zone where varying play styles downright loathed each other.

    One thing I do find interesting, no one really feels as if their desired style of play is truly being represented. Maybe this can be used as a means of community unification instead of further fragmentation and hatred?
    Well there has always been different groups in DDO. The end game player group and the altitis used to be two of the bigger groups before true reincarnation. The altitis players never levelled a character to cap before they created a new character and would have many many characters on multiple servers. That group has conflicting views compared to the end game group, but Turbine managed to keep both groups happy. The altitis players got a lot of investment in character development options and the end game players got new end game quests and raids.

    A lot of the altitis group has become the true reincarnation group and additionaly more players have joined true reincarnation group over time . End gamers also did some true reincarnation whether to gain power or to experience a different aspect of ddo and these end game players have some affinity for true reincarnation and serial true reincarnators. DDO players are not confrontational in game for the most part they just go away and stop playing when they become unhappy. What I see is end game players not logging in, not playing, doing some other things in game to pass the time in hopes that DDO fixes things. The fragmentation is there and the hatred for different playstyles is growing because the producer/devs are messing things up. There is very little incentive to end game play right now and end gamers did not get a raid with the expansion which made a lot of them mad. They can true reincarnate a few times, level up their characters a bit, or they can quit.

    The forums are bringing this unhappiness out.
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  3. #303
    Community Member Lorianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Indeed, and was replaced in the flagging requirement by a "run forward and kill mobs" style quest.
    Although really, once everyone knew about Crucible it wasn't any more challenging.
    "Stand here, click this when I tell you."
    "Okay, person with lowest wisdom click on this."
    "Okay, minmaxed evasion build go do the swim."
    "Click this X times when I tell you."
    "Okay, end fight, nuke away."
    Done.

    There's only so much you can do to challenge people without randomization, to make things unpredictable.

    I never really saw Crucible as a "challenge" so much as "pointlessly tedious hoop-jump exercise."

  4. #304
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Well there has always been different groups in DDO. The end game player group and the altitis used to be two of the bigger groups before true reincarnation. The altitis players never levelled a character to cap before they created a new character and would have many many characters on multiple servers. That group has conflicting views compared to the end game group, but Turbine managed to keep both groups happy. The altitis players got a lot of investment in character development options and the end game players got new end game quests and raids.

    A lot of the altitis group has become the true reincarnation group and additionaly more players have joined true reincarnation group over time . End gamers also did some true reincarnation whether to gain power or to experience a different aspect of ddo and these end game players have some affinity for true reincarnation and serial true reincarnators. DDO players are not confrontational in game for the most part they just go away and stop playing when they become unhappy. What I see is end game players not logging in, not playing, doing some other things in game to pass the time in hopes that DDO fixes things. The fragmentation is there and the hatred for different playstyles is growing because the producer/devs are messing things up. There is very little incentive to end game play right now and end gamers did not get a raid with the expansion which made a lot of them mad. They can true reincarnate a few times, level up their characters a bit, or they can quit.

    The forums are bringing this unhappiness out.
    Dude . . . most of the end-gamers have flat-out left DDO. My guild is gutted right now as are the other traditionally end-game focused guilds on my server. You'll have no problems fill a "Rusted Blades x4" LFM though.

    Will they come back if there's actually more to do who knows.

  5. #305
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Although really, once everyone knew about Crucible it wasn't any more challenging.
    "Stand here, click this when I tell you."
    "Okay, person with lowest wisdom click on this."
    "Okay, minmaxed evasion build go do the swim."
    "Click this X times when I tell you."
    "Okay, end fight, nuke away."
    Done.

    There's only so much you can do to challenge people without randomization, to make things unpredictable.

    I never really saw Crucible as a "challenge" so much as "pointlessly tedious hoop-jump exercise."
    Regarding crucible at first I thought removing it from the flaggin requirements was bad . . . until I had to re-flag all my toons for the new raid and then I was grateful.

  6. #306
    Community Member Lorianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Regarding crucible at first I thought removing it from the flaggin requirements was bad . . . until I had to re-flag all my toons for the new raid and then I was grateful.
    I was fairly ambivalent about it. I honestly prefer the hobgoblin quest, because I like not having him turn the traps off so I can jump around trap-busting, and I love using that hidden trapped chest as my benchmark for my trapbusting skills. Anything that gets me to go play around with it more often is fine by me.

  7. #307
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Although really, once everyone knew about Crucible it wasn't any more challenging.
    "Stand here, click this when I tell you."
    "Okay, person with lowest wisdom click on this."
    "Okay, minmaxed evasion build go do the swim."
    "Click this X times when I tell you."
    "Okay, end fight, nuke away."
    Done.

    There's only so much you can do to challenge people without randomization, to make things unpredictable.

    I never really saw Crucible as a "challenge" so much as "pointlessly tedious hoop-jump exercise."
    That's if you were in a group that actually knew the maze or immediately used wiki. In today's DDO, you don't come across very many with the required low wisdom anymore. Its about who has the highest wisdom now. The "tedious hoop jump exercise", I thought was a good test in character build. If you couldn't survive Crucible, back to the drawing board. But, people do look at Crucible from 1 point of view and 1 point of view only. D&D has never been about hack and slash everything.

  8. #308
    Community Member shad0wguns's Avatar
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    I miss the old days when 20 was the cap and there was a lot of end game content. I think 25 wasn't a bad idea but going to 28 so quickly was. They should have stuck with EE content at level 25 for a bit. Also this no raid bs with the expansion what were they thinking? 90% of the named loot is **** and all around this expansion is a fail.

  9. #309
    Community Member Lorianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    That's if you were in a group that actually knew the maze or immediately used wiki. In today's DDO, you don't come across very many with the required low wisdom anymore. Its about who has the highest wisdom now. The "tedious hoop jump exercise", I thought was a good test in character build. If you couldn't survive Crucible, back to the drawing board. But, people do look at Crucible from 1 point of view and 1 point of view only. D&D has never been about hack and slash everything.
    Yeah, the low wisdom bit has been replaced with the minmaxed evasion build just opening the same door repeatedly until the horn pops up.

    The thing is, the Crucible was never really a test of character build save for the evasion character. And that character would end up doing the three parts that actually required the "effort". The rest of it was just "stand here, click this when I say" type stuff. Where's the challenge/test in that?

  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Indeed, and was replaced in the flagging requirement by a "run forward and kill mobs" style quest.
    And? It didn't stop people from loving EGH and it wasn't what killed it. The sky did not fall, but it made some people mad who felt that people should 'earn' the flagging privileged. I'm more interested in expanding content and have more people run it. We're way past the luxury of limiting the interest in content by splitting hair about story lines. I get what you're saying but I want to get years more out of the game and not months because we're the type that are religious about not finding a cure.

  11. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Yeah, the low wisdom bit has been replaced with the minmaxed evasion build just opening the same door repeatedly until the horn pops up.

    The thing is, the Crucible was never really a test of character build save for the evasion character. And that character would end up doing the three parts that actually required the "effort". The rest of it was just "stand here, click this when I say" type stuff. Where's the challenge/test in that?
    In the early days I had 2 toons, a fighter and a FvS. Neither evasion builds. Safe to say I piked a lot in that quest.

  12. #312
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    Braegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Yeah, the low wisdom bit has been replaced with the minmaxed evasion build just opening the same door repeatedly until the horn pops up.

    The thing is, the Crucible was never really a test of character build save for the evasion character. And that character would end up doing the three parts that actually required the "effort". The rest of it was just "stand here, click this when I say" type stuff. Where's the challenge/test in that?
    The challenge/test was when it was first released. No one knew the maze, rogues were trying to find the trap boxes in the agility test, everyone went swimming because we thought we had to stick together. Sure, years and years later after lots of trial and error and experience being handed down it's no longer really a challenge as it once was. But quests of late don't even attempt to be a challenge when released, with the exception of just inflation of HP/Saves/Damage. The newer quests look great (aside from Purple Haze annoyance) but they are all just push W and hold mouse button down.
    Git off mah lawn!

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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Dude . . . most of the end-gamers have flat-out left DDO. My guild is gutted right now as are the other traditionally end-game focused guilds on my server. You'll have no problems fill a "Rusted Blades x4" LFM though.

    Will they come back if there's actually more to do who knows.
    I think it's not true. Most end-gamers still love the game, they are still here. But they are doing what the other players are doing, right now is mostly TRing. When eGH was landed, I did a lot EE quests there, some was fun, some was based on the party setup (EE blue dragon was never an easy run), but you could see a lot of competent players there... I still see them, they are on TR trains, doing a life in 1-2 weeks without using an Otto's box... So, few choices left in the game, and most players heavily invest in past lives - we all know how easy to pile up past lives these days.

  14. #314
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Yeah, the low wisdom bit has been replaced with the minmaxed evasion build just opening the same door repeatedly until the horn pops up.

    The thing is, the Crucible was never really a test of character build save for the evasion character. And that character would end up doing the three parts that actually required the "effort". The rest of it was just "stand here, click this when I say" type stuff. Where's the challenge/test in that?
    that's what happens in DDO with resurrection as a big part in DDO and devs unable to spit content out fast enough so we don't have to repeat quests too many times if we don't want to. I think I heard once that LOTRO is set up so you don't have to repeat quests at all. that's why I like going into new quests solo so I don't have any spoilers and I can be surprised around every corner. we don't have really any random dungeons and we can use spoilers to figure quests out. I had the most fun in a Crucible group once when the party leader had to leave mid quest and with 3 of us left we spent a good half hour running around the maze trying to figure out how to get the crests. it took an hour and a half to complete Crucible. we did have a rogue to do the swim and traps, but the swim was difficult for him since it was his first time. luckily we were doing it on norm, back before ship buffs and BB or it would have been a fail. if we did fail, I wouldn't have cared because it was fun playing as a team to figure out the quest and not caring about the time.

    the swim would take some practice with no evasion. I don't care what anyone says about that. no evasion is not that easy getting through the underwater spikes and fan without getting stabbed or not dying from multiple spike stabs. I did do the swim for the first time a few lives ago as a monk. with decent saves, pots and careful swimming it is really not that bad. I don't know what all the fuss was about that, other than non evasions had to have an evasion in the group or they couldn't solo it.

    the trapped room where you have to get the horn before time runs out I have actually done with no evasion a couple times. its all about timing, quick healing and some good hp doesn't hurt. a little practice but evasion isn't a requirement for that part.

  15. #315
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Although really, once everyone knew about Crucible it wasn't any more challenging.
    "Stand here, click this when I tell you."
    "Okay, person with lowest wisdom click on this."
    "Okay, minmaxed evasion build go do the swim."
    "Click this X times when I tell you."
    "Okay, end fight, nuke away."
    Done.

    There's only so much you can do to challenge people without randomization, to make things unpredictable.

    I never really saw Crucible as a "challenge" so much as "pointlessly tedious hoop-jump exercise."
    Which requires a heck of alot of more attention than cabal - run forward > kill > repeat.

    Gianthold flagging. /crucibled.

  16. #316
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    The challenge/test was when it was first released. No one knew the maze, rogues were trying to find the trap boxes in the agility test, everyone went swimming because we thought we had to stick together. Sure, years and years later after lots of trial and error and experience being handed down it's no longer really a challenge as it once was. But quests of late don't even attempt to be a challenge when released, with the exception of just inflation of HP/Saves/Damage. The newer quests look great (aside from Purple Haze annoyance) but they are all just push W and hold mouse button down.
    whenever I am asked what quests or packs I like the most, I always list all the older ones like Von, Reavers, Amrath, Vale, Sands and all those quests with quest chains that give a reward at the end like STK and Tangleroot. to me, those are the best D&D quests in the game. the ones released the past couple years don't hold a candle to those ones.

  17. #317
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Which requires a heck of alot of more attention than cabal - run forward > kill > repeat.

    Gianthold flagging. /crucibled.
    So what? Crucible is still there, relatively untouched. They even created a new reason to run it. If you want to you can still run it.

  18. #318
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    I was thrilled when I returned from a break to find Crucible had been "deflagged". I absolutely despise that quest, possibly in my top three most hated quests ever.

    Why? Because by design, you spend at least half the time standing around. It's mind-numbingly boring, and if I never step foot in there again, it will be too soon.

    As others have said, it wasn't challenging anyway, just tedious. Actually, the biggest challenge for me was finding a PUG running it -- and then trying to stay awake.

    It's still there for those who like it, and the rest of us can avoid it. Win-win, IMO.

  19. #319
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    So what? Crucible is still there, relatively untouched. They even created a new reason to run it. If you want to you can still run it.
    yep and that's the direction the game has been going in for some time now. players don't want to do things that require a little skill and brain power. they would rather just point, click, kill, run forward done. next quest. Turbine decided it was better to change the core of DDO to better cater to a certain portion of the population.

  20. #320
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    So what? Crucible is still there, relatively untouched. They even created a new reason to run it. If you want to you can still run it.
    Yeah its still there alright, pushed to the side and replaced with run forward > kill > repeat style quest that was designed to be one of the walk ups. Why defeat it in game when we can defeat it on the forums.

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