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  1. #1
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    Default Natural Evolution, a simplified wolf dps build

    del
    Last edited by Tilomere; 08-04-2015 at 04:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I also made this build in response to the double strike bug, where offhand only goes off if main hand goes off. This makes double strike sort of an all-in or fold nature.
    Has there been any word from the devs about whether or not the TWF feats applying to animal forms is WAI? My hunch is it's a bug that's gonna get nerfed, but I'm hoping I'm wrong...
    Ranger Deepwood Stalker 26 points 2d6 Sneak, 75 pos spell power, Killer
    I presume you already know this, but if not (or for those that don't), DWS Pos Spellpower is getting nerfed.

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Sure, just don't want you to be in for a rude shock when the nerf goes live.

    The real issue is the TWF feats; I strongly suspect it's a bug that they apply to shapeshifted builds, because who would bother with Natural Fighting anymore if it isn't? If / when that gets fixed / nerfed, your build will be SOL.

  4. #4
    Community Member JasonJi72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Sure, just don't want you to be in for a rude shock when the nerf goes live.
    Thanks mate, I did not know that. This is going to kill my druid archer... I am a very sad Panda.
    Jyn... Kender... Thelanis

    *Insert clever comment here*

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJi72 View Post
    Thanks mate, I did not know that. This is going to kill my druid archer... I am a very sad Panda.
    It looks like you can still get +30 Pos spellpower with a rgr 1 splash for 7 APs; still a huge nerf, but better than eliminating it entirely. And let's face it, 75 Spellpower for 6 APs was ridiculously OP compared to all the other Spellpower enhs, so a nerf was inevitable. At least as a druid, you can pick up some more from Season's Herald, right? It hurts actual rgrs more than rgr splashes, IMHO; a lot of people are unhappy the extra Pos Spellpower is all in higher tiers of DWS, which is still the least popular rgr tree.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    the double strike bug, where offhand only goes off if main hand goes off. This makes double strike sort of an all-in or fold nature. You need a ton of it to make it work on the offhand and get the full value out of it, otherwise go for harder hits without double strike.
    According to one report from this thread offhand doublestrikes are proccing without mainhand doublestrikes. Based on the info I have gathered, I belive the bug is only applying to the tempest capstone. If you have any knowledge or information otherwise, please share. I've tried to get more info about this a number of times but, other than that one report, no one seems to know.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    FYI, Cordovan confirmed what I suspected: TWF feats applying to animal forms is not WAI, unfortunately. File under "This is why we can't have nice things."

  8. #8
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    Default Quick TR druid Plan

    GREETINGS! Just need to do 3 Druid lives..... Quick TR at 20.

    Have:
    3 fighter/ 3 monk/ 3 Pally/ 3 Rogue/ 3 ranger/ 3 Barb done. So not to worry about to hit/saves/HAMP/or HP.
    All +3 tomes, Named handwraps, and GS Khopheses.
    VIP for a few more months

    This is the only thing must have.... 2 levels of rogue for 97% all traps and locks and doors. So level 1 rogue and usually level 11 when the +3 int tomes kicks in.

    Just need a basic build. As you can see from the past lives i have mostly played melee. Willing to try caster Druid for one of the lives.....

    hit me with you best shot for fast 1-20 tr, 1-20 tr, 1-20 tr.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Unarmed base is 92 attacks/minute, wolf plus haste is 45% faster for 147 attacks/min* (See: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-and-Formulae)
    90% offhand adds 132 attacks/minute offhand
    18% NF doublestrike + 15% SM/ISM/LSM + 8% item +5 ITWF = 46% double strike = 68 Attacks/min
    10% offhand double strike ITWF = 13 attacks/min

    Total attacks/min = 360 = 6 attacks/sec
    Animal form base attack rate is the One-Handed Rate with a base 30% animation boost. The 1HF rate is basically the TWF rate, but without the off-hand attack. The 30% boost stacks with haste, etc, as it is a base boost. So at 20BAB the 1HF rate is 86.33 vs 94.12 for unarmed.

    In part fatal harrier and the modified damage die and crit range are meant to make up for the 9% attack speed difference and extra TWF offhand attacks. Of course fatal harrier has been nerfed.

    In a comparison [1] I did prior to the enhancement, the different in attacks for unarmed vs wolf was basically: 245.63 (haste boost/fatal harrier) vs 292.63 (haste/haste boost) for the two drunk metas at the time. With the former having a much higher base damage.

    I've got no idea where the meta is at the moment, and I'm waiting until the enhancement settle before I look in depth at anything.


    [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE&usp=sharing


    Edit: Using a shield in animal form should also make you uncentered.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    To charge blitz it has all of the druid animal form innate attacks (these are not spells so can be used while raged), barb special attacks, FVS special attacks, as well as cleave, gc, supreme cleave, and the free tactical feats. So it will charge blitz in a minute. This is a strength based build, so start thinking lots and lots of strength.
    I recall reading somewhere that even though animal form innate attacks are not spells, you still cannot "cast" them while raged. Has this been fixed? Did you test this out or is it purely theoretical?

  11. #11
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    Default Hi and Thanks for your time

    Would it be posible to send me the druid druid build in one page to simplify it for me please ? I want to try it out by using the +20 lesser heart of wood cause i cant figure out how to make the drunk build work with the new enhancements. I /bow to your knowlege of mele and want to try this out.

  12. #12
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post

    Level Order + Feats
    1 Druid TWF (If Human: Maximize)
    2 Monk Stunning Fist
    3-8 Druid Maximize, Empower (If Human: Adept of Forms)
    9-10 Druid ITWF
    11 Monk Resilience
    12-20 Druid IC:B, GTWF, Heighten,
    21 Adept of Forms (If Human, Master of Forms)
    24 Quicken
    26 PTWF
    27 Master of Forms (If Human: Bulwark)
    28 Epic Mage Armor
    the feat list sounds.. awfull??

    Resilence? Yeah, more CD on spells!
    Mage armor? Really? Pick something for melee pls.
    No permahaste? if you cant cast it, you should pick
    the TWF line was declared no WAI by a dev, so if it still works, anytime can stop doing.
    No empower healing makes you coccon sad.

  13. #13
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Level Order + Feats
    1 Druid TWF (If Human: Maximize)
    2 Monk Stunning Fist
    3-8 Druid Maximize, Empower (If Human: Adept of Forms)
    9-10 Druid ITWF
    11 Monk Resilience
    12-20 Druid IC:B, GTWF, Heighten,
    21 Adept of Forms (If Human, Master of Forms)
    24 Quicken
    26 PTWF
    27 Master of Forms (If Human: Bulwark)
    28 Epic Mage Armor
    I question the lack of spell focus Evocation. I would say its better then Heighten, Bulwark, Resilience, or one of the Forms.

  14. #14
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Evo Focus is 1 DC. After you stun a mob to strip it of evasion and give it 0 dex (at least -5 reflex, probably closer to -15-20 reflex if wolf pet is any indication of mob stats) the 1 DC doesn't seem relevant anymore. Yes earthquake might not work as well and get as many mobs, but you have stun/AC/saves/evasion backup so you don't need it to. I don't feel that 1 spell DC is worthwhile for a feat on a hybrid druid that I want to do everything well. Same concept as to why I don't think NF should be taken regardless of whether or not TWF is removed from animal form. I'm building a druid for all forms and play styles. But for your goals and druid design, it very well might be. You might want a more specialized caster druid that relies less on melee, so it might fit what you want more than one of these feats.

    Heighten I put in based on my Sorc experience. I like heighten, and while it doesn't seem fully relevant due to above, it will help land SLAs far more than 1 evo DC on mobs you can't stun. This was a choice to even the build out against all targets. Power attack would also work, but then you would lose saving throws. And I wanted everything at the same time. I'm getting a few arti-powered fighter lives now for tactical DCs, so I won't be able to get good play testing on this build for a bit. My personal preference would be to drop bulwark or one or both forms first as well to tweak the build in a direction if desired.
    Spell focus Evocation is not 1 DC its the option to twist in another 5 DC when in content that you need it for Earthquake to put every thing on the ground, rather then just 50% of the mobs. A "Druid Druid" should be able to provide reliable good CC when needed not taking SF: Evocation is leaving too much on the table.

    I understand wanting better saves, and the forms are very nice but having a meaningful Earthquake 100% of the time regardless of content difficulty is far better.

  15. #15
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    Default Love this build

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Race: Human, Dwarf, Warforged (Something that boosts stunning fist DC through tactics or wisdom)

    Starting Stats 36 point, assumes +3 dex tome, adjust as you need.
    Str 14
    Dex 14 (want 17 after tome for TWF)
    Con 14
    Int 10
    Wis 18 + all Level Ups (want a solid tome here as well, WF will be 16)
    Chr 8

    Level Order + Feats
    1 Druid TWF (If Human: Maximize)
    2 Monk Stunning Fist
    3-8 Druid Maximize, Empower (If Human: Adept of Forms)
    9-10 Druid ITWF
    11 Monk Resilience
    12-20 Druid IC:B, GTWF, Heighten,
    21 Adept of Forms (If Human, Master of Forms)
    24 Quicken
    26 PTWF
    27 Master of Forms (If Human: Bulwark)
    28 Epic Mage Armor

    Skills Balance, Spellcraft, Heal, Spot, Concentration

    Epic Destiny LD is very good, with a bunch of action boosts, blitz, and whatever else you want. See post 16 for preparing blitz with druid wolf attacks if you want. However, any ED will work well once you grasp the concept of how beating on a pinata means you can make a powerful well rounded druid.

    Twists: Sense Weakness +2, Legendary Tactics if not in LD

    Enhancements: a mix from both trees and human tree that includes +5 wisdom and wisdom action surge if human. If you are not human, replace 1 wisdom and action surge wisdom from human with tactics DC. Otherwise, whatever floats your boat. More action boosts can't hurt if you are in LD. Get at least all the tier 4 and core SLAs to use max/empowered. Get essence of the shrike for easy blitz charging. Tier 5 whatever you want.

    How to get working Stunning Fist DC: Wisdom as above, handwraps with dazing or stunning affix or antipodes from raider's box, exceptional combat mastery item. Exceptional and insightful wisdom item post 20. Exceptional augment can be obtained from raider's tokens at twelve, insightful is on a lot of items. Otherwise a somewhat up to date wisdom item.

    Some spell power. Sage's ring, or other wisdom/universal spell power combo item is ideal. Socket weapon with spell power to make it spell casting implement.

    Some melee gear. Basically start hybrid, and adjust the druid to whatever you like better as you play it. Minimal would be an accuracy and deadly item.

    Some defensive gear.
    Aww wished i had asked for this as well when i +20LR my monk to this build hehehe i see i made mistakes, thanks for making this build its been very fun, currently level 19 i am a returning player and having a blast. I do have a question you say to use twf for the elemental forms, could you explain how playing in elemental form benefits using this (i have only played with wolf these time) do you still melee while in elemental form? this is what confuses me a bit.

    For another question, do you go for tier 5 in storm's herald? is storm of vengance sla, word of balance, crown of summer worth it instead of nature warrior t5? (nature war t5 doesn't look as powerful to me)

    Thanks in advance.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garr71 View Post
    For another question, do you go for tier 5 in storm's herald? is storm of vengance sla, word of balance, crown of summer worth it instead of nature warrior t5?
    IMHO, Storm of Vengeance SLA is the best - and possibly only - reason for going to druid 18, esp. if WIS-based. The 2-min. cooldown sucks, but it can be meta'ed for free. SoV + Earthquake + Ice Storm (w/Mantle of Icy Soul for debuff) + Sleet Storm (blinds them so vulnerable to SAs) mobs; Stunning Fist as often as possible; smack away until dead.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    unbongwah has it down. You melee and stunning fist as often as possible in any form, because it enhances everything you do (and your wolf, and the rest of your party). The points you get in NW get you 2 Wisdom and a mix of other things for stunning fist.

    I don't know what I would pick between NW T5 vs SH T5. I would probably mix it up just for fun. I'm getting a fighter past life now so it will be awhile. You get SoV SLA simply from being druid 18 and putting 31 points into the SH tree, so you can always have it regardless of what tree you get T5 in.
    Ty for the answers, the other question was about something more generic that isnt quit clear for me, when you say TWF benefits elemental forms, how is that? am i supposed to melee while also casting in elemental forms? kinda like what i do in wolf with sla??

  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I don't know what I would pick between NW T5 vs SH T5.
    If wolf-/bear-based, I would take Natural Adept for the spell cooldown reduction; if more caster-focused, I would want Word of Balance SLA plus other caster buffs in SH. But since the only thing you lose by resetting your enhs is plat, it's easy (if costly!) to experiment with AP loadouts.
    Quote Originally Posted by garr71 View Post
    Ty for the answers, the other question was about something more generic that isnt quit clear for me, when you say TWF benefits elemental forms, how is that? am i supposed to melee while also casting in elemental forms? kinda like what i do in wolf with sla??
    Elemental form is just "regular humanoid with benefits:" i.e., +100% fort, +1 CL to your element's spells, etc. So anything which benefits melee normally will also work while in fire/water elem form.

  19. #19
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    Default need enhancement suggestions please.

    can you or someone post the enhancements and epic destiny choices please

  20. #20
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    Default thanks and sorry i missed the reply to marygold

    sorry I didn't see the new posts

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