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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    For a WF, yes, since Repair Serious is an autoslot...for a fleshie, that second 3rd level spell means Cure Serious Admixture, since your 1st slot is, of course, always Insightful Damage. If you want to have blue-bar heals as a fleshie arti, and not just be wand/scroll heals, the 7th level of Arti probably outweighs the 6th level in your piggyback class (since you stop at L18, you only effectively go 6/6/6)
    Or you could take the feat Construct Essence and be healed by Repair Spells on flesh-mode.

    But then why would you ever go warforged fleshie? In my mind ANY deep arty-splash(6 levels and up) is for warforged only. You're just hobbling yourself by insisting on going flesh with that many artificer levels.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ...v... View Post
    just do what everyone else does, level a fvs to 19 then use a lessor and finish with what you want. The reason I say fvs is because they are very solo friendly and you can add 1 or 2 rogue levels for traps also.
    ...that would get ridiculously expensive in the real dollars way. Everyone does that? Don't get me wrong, I've got hundreds of dollars sunk into this game, but using lesser hearts to turn a favored soul into something else for a past life seems ridiculosu, unless you're just doing it one time to get a single past-life for completionist in some class you absolutely cannot stand playing(*cough*bard*cough*).

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterjWizzard View Post
    Has anyone written a guide for maxing out UMD since the recent game changes?
    The wiki has a good listing of UMD sources in the relevant article.

    I'm nearly on my last melee life on my TR character. I typically hit no-fail Heal near level 11 when UMD is a class skill.
    • GS CHA skills accessory +6 @level 11
    • Cosmetic Bunny Hat +3 (when scroll or wand in main hand) or Persuasion item +3 or Seven-Fingered Gloves +5 from Titan
    • Good luck +2, ML 7 on a Shroud shard with Masterful Crafting
    • Arti past life +1 per past life
    • Heroism +2 (pots)/Greater Heroism +4 (Planar Gird, refresh with scrolls)
    • Highest CHA item you can equip, CHA tomes
    • MotU Spider Cult Mask +1


    Bonus points: GS CHA weapon +1+2 CHA offhand; alternatively a heal amp weapon, or if you don't need the +1, heal amp on the second tier (or DT armour at level 16). UMD skill tome. Yugo CHA pots from past life.

    I have had surprisingly good self-sufficiency on my melee lives with this UMD setup, using Rogue 2/Fighter 8/X 10. The Fighter gives tactics such as stun/trip/sap and the cleaves that previous posters have mentioned. Combined with defensive scrolls such as Fire Shield and Blur/Displacement made for very survivable melee lives.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalone View Post
    The wiki has a good listing of UMD sources in the relevant article.

    I'm nearly on my last melee life on my TR character. I typically hit no-fail Heal near level 11 when UMD is a class skill.
    • GS CHA skills accessory +6 @level 11
    • Cosmetic Bunny Hat +3 (when scroll or wand in main hand) or Persuasion item +3 or Seven-Fingered Gloves +5 from Titan
    • Good luck +2, ML 7 on a Shroud shard with Masterful Crafting
    • Arti past life +1 per past life
    • Heroism +2 (pots)/Greater Heroism +4 (Planar Gird, refresh with scrolls)
    • Highest CHA item you can equip, CHA tomes
    • MotU Spider Cult Mask +1


    Bonus points: GS CHA weapon +1+2 CHA offhand; alternatively a heal amp weapon, or if you don't need the +1, heal amp on the second tier (or DT armour at level 16). UMD skill tome. Yugo CHA pots from past life.

    I have had surprisingly good self-sufficiency on my melee lives with this UMD setup, using Rogue 2/Fighter 8/X 10. The Fighter gives tactics such as stun/trip/sap and the cleaves that previous posters have mentioned. Combined with defensive scrolls such as Fire Shield and Blur/Displacement made for very survivable melee lives.

    Well that's all quite helpful.

    I went ahead and bought a bunny hat and will probably grab the +2 UMD tome before I TR. Also before TRing I'm going to grab the +4 every stat tome. Yeah I'm no stranger to spending money, I just want it to last :P

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterjWizzard View Post
    Or you could take the feat Construct Essence and be healed by Repair Spells on flesh-mode.

    But then why would you ever go warforged fleshie? In my mind ANY deep arty-splash(6 levels and up) is for warforged only. You're just hobbling yourself by insisting on going flesh with that many artificer levels.
    I've played a CE fleshie arti, I kinda feel like CE is a n00b trap. 50% Repair heals (with little if any way to increase Repair Amp) aren't viable. Even Reconstruct ends up about as good as an enhanced CCW. And you take a penalty to Positive heals, for the "versatility" of having both Positive and Repair heals (even though Arti can use either, and you cant use both at the same time or anything).

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I've played a CE fleshie arti, I kinda feel like CE is a n00b trap. 50% Repair heals (with little if any way to increase Repair Amp) aren't viable. Even Reconstruct ends up about as good as an enhanced CCW. And you take a penalty to Positive heals, for the "versatility" of having both Positive and Repair heals (even though Arti can use either, and you cant use both at the same time or anything).
    Agreed. I can't really figure out why anyone would ever go fleshie arti in the first place. With the possible exception of "for the challenge"(which I have heard as a legitimate argument). The only other explanation is "I got it through favor-unlock and am too cheap to buy Warforged". I have a feeling I am subsidizing about three of those players...

  7. #47
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    You can actually do 10 artificer, since artificer comes after fighter in the class list.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats
    It might even be advantageous to go 6/6/6 for some lives and then take the final 2 levels in whichever class you need the past life in. One advantage of this is that each life plays exactly the same as the life before it did.

    Since L6 seems to be the sweet spot for many of the prestige enhancement trees in the revamped enhancement system this can give lots of synergy to a build. Of course, the risk is that you miss out on higher level repair or healing spells.

    With warforged do not neglect the repair skill as this affects the repair spells. With fleshies do not neglect the heal skill as it affects healing spells.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    With warforged do not neglect the repair skill as this affects the repair spells. With fleshies do not neglect the heal skill as it affects healing spells.
    Again, I kinda feel spending points in Heal and Repair (and Spellcraft) can be another n00b trap. Not that they hurt, like taking CE might - just that they're definitely "second tier" skills to spend points on. You're only talking about 23 spellpower difference, when 200-400 spellpower is now possible endgame - you still get points from stat bonus and +gear and enhancements regardless of points actually spent. Heck, spend 4 points on char creation (when you have lots of leftovers) and its only 19 spellpower difference.

    I definitely would max out other skills (trapping for trappers, stealth for stealthers, balance/conc, enough Jump to hit 40 with buff, etc.) before I put anything into Repair or Heal, they're moreso a "good place for leftover points" rather than "sacrifice something else to max these". Then just get an item with +XX Repair or Heal, its essentially equivalent to +XX Repair/Positive spellpower that stacks with actual Devotion or Reconstruction.

  9. #49
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterjWizzard View Post
    Agreed. I can't really figure out why anyone would ever go fleshie arti in the first place. With the possible exception of "for the challenge"(which I have heard as a legitimate argument). The only other explanation is "I got it through favor-unlock and am too cheap to buy Warforged". I have a feeling I am subsidizing about three of those players...
    I am currently play a fleshie but only a slash of Arti 3 levels for traps repeater and elemental weapons (I have learned that splashing Arti is more power than splashing Rogue for trap and UMD) having done many 2 rogue splashes if you have some monk levels for evasion then splash Arti for traps its better overall. I am not a moncher so using my GS repeaters is a bonus

  10. #50
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterjWizzard View Post
    ...that would get ridiculously expensive in the real dollars way. Everyone does that? Don't get me wrong, I've got hundreds of dollars sunk into this game, but using lesser hearts to turn a favored soul into something else for a past life seems ridiculosu, unless you're just doing it one time to get a single past-life for completionist in some class you absolutely cannot stand playing(*cough*bard*cough*).
    not sure why everyone scoffs at bard it can be an insanely powerful melee build with a little splash of this or that (whatever flavor you like really) self buffing fascinating. If you think bard sucks your most likely doing in wrong.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Yeah, I wish Mechanic had more for repeaters than just another +4 damage (that wasn't ROG-level dependent).
    After taking another look at what mechanic really offers, I'm inclined to agree with you. And unless the wiki's wrong, it's +4 to hit, but only an extra 2 damage for repeaters (+6 for non-repeaters).

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Again, I kinda feel spending points in Heal and Repair (and Spellcraft) can be another n00b trap. Not that they hurt, like taking CE might - just that they're definitely "second tier" skills to spend points on. You're only talking about 23 spellpower difference, when 200-400 spellpower is now possible endgame
    Except the thread is about TR builds, so talking about endgame is neither here nor there. The question is: how useful is that extra spell power up to and including level 18?

    Construct Essence is why I think there should be a "Self-Forged" Artificer tree, sharpish.

  12. #52
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Again, I kinda feel spending points in Heal and Repair (and Spellcraft) can be another n00b trap. Not that they hurt, like taking CE might - just that they're definitely "second tier" skills to spend points on. You're only talking about 23 spellpower difference, when 200-400 spellpower is now possible endgame - you still get points from stat bonus and +gear and enhancements regardless of points actually spent. Heck, spend 4 points on char creation (when you have lots of leftovers) and its only 19 spellpower difference.

    I definitely would max out other skills (trapping for trappers, stealth for stealthers, balance/conc, enough Jump to hit 40 with buff, etc.) before I put anything into Repair or Heal, they're moreso a "good place for leftover points" rather than "sacrifice something else to max these". Then just get an item with +XX Repair or Heal, its essentially equivalent to +XX Repair/Positive spellpower that stacks with actual Devotion or Reconstruction.
    You have a point that I won't argue too strenuously with you. I was just looking at the 4 classes that OP wants and wondering what skills the various lives need.

    IMO the half-elf recommendation is a good one -- one that I've made in other threads. The challenge is that it requires a significant investment in racial enhancements and a stat point investment in WIS in order to unlock the cleric dilettante. What also should be considered is what the build(s) are going to look like.

    For example, 6 fighter/6 ranger/6 monk might be a good build for 9 lives -- capping them off with the final 2 levels in fighter, ranger or monk as needed. Something like that has tremendous synergy to work with and, once geared, will be the same thing time after time. On a half-elf with the cleric dilly there isn't anything else that it needs to spend spell power on and there are few skills that it needs -- concentration and ... well, nothing really. So, might as well spend the skill points on heal.

    Of course it suffers from not having access to CMW or CSW spells. OTOH, it probably has enough AC, dodge, etc. to avoid all but about 10% of incoming attacks anyway. So, maybe it gets by with a maximized, empowered CLW spell and scrolls (and maybe rejuvenation cocoon if available via twists) for all of its heroic questing. If it is relying on the lowest level cure spell then a dedicated devotion slot and any boost it can get out of the heal skill would seem a good investment.

    Anyway, a lot of it would obviously depend on build choices. In a broad sense I think you make a good point -- maybe just not for this specific situation depending on how OP wants to go with builds.

  13. #53
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    You have a point that I won't argue too strenuously with you. I was just looking at the 4 classes that OP wants and wondering what skills the various lives need.

    IMO the half-elf recommendation is a good one -- one that I've made in other threads. The challenge is that it requires a significant investment in racial enhancements and a stat point investment in WIS in order to unlock the cleric dilettante. What also should be considered is what the build(s) are going to look like.

    For example, 6 fighter/6 ranger/6 monk might be a good build for 9 lives -- capping them off with the final 2 levels in fighter, ranger or monk as needed. Something like that has tremendous synergy to work with and, once geared, will be the same thing time after time. On a half-elf with the cleric dilly there isn't anything else that it needs to spend spell power on and there are few skills that it needs -- concentration and ... well, nothing really. So, might as well spend the skill points on heal.

    Of course it suffers from not having access to CMW or CSW spells. OTOH, it probably has enough AC, dodge, etc. to avoid all but about 10% of incoming attacks anyway. So, maybe it gets by with a maximized, empowered CLW spell and scrolls (and maybe rejuvenation cocoon if available via twists) for all of its heroic questing. If it is relying on the lowest level cure spell then a dedicated devotion slot and any boost it can get out of the heal skill would seem a good investment.

    Anyway, a lot of it would obviously depend on build choices. In a broad sense I think you make a good point -- maybe just not for this specific situation depending on how OP wants to go with builds.

    I'm not sure what the point of maximized CLW spells are for everyone all the unless you have high healing amp + a good amount of spellpower these spells are mediocre at best.

    Just dump those spells and the skill points and gear needed to gain a decent benefit from those spells and get some UMD and heal scrolls.
    Last edited by Tanngiostr; 09-19-2013 at 11:28 AM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    I am currently play a fleshie but only a slash of Arti 3 levels for traps repeater and elemental weapons (I have learned that splashing Arti is more power than splashing Rogue for trap and UMD) having done many 2 rogue splashes if you have some monk levels for evasion then splash Arti for traps its better overall. I am not a moncher so using my GS repeaters is a bonus
    Oh I love arti-splashes. If you're going to use repeaters its the only way to go! 2 levels gets you repeaters and runearms and then you can be highly effective at range. Its only deep-splash artificers on fleshie lives I don't get.

    Let's say you plan to go the 6 ranger/6 artificer route. Since arties are extremly over-powered at low levels and get many valuable spells/abilities, it makes sense just to go 6 artificer levels straight away, then you hit lvl 6 with full trapping, high UMD, effective self-healing, flame turret, and elemental weapons. By the time you even GET your first ranger healing spell on that approach, you'll have full UMD healing, so why go fleshie? Just be a construct and be done with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    not sure why everyone scoffs at bard it can be an insanely powerful melee build with a little splash of this or that (whatever flavor you like really) self buffing fascinating. If you think bard sucks your most likely doing in wrong.
    It was a joke. I was joking. Bards are awesome. Actually I've never played a bard, but they do look like fun; just not enough fun to justify doing 3 lives for a paltry +3 charisma skills. If I go completionist though I expect the bard life to be entertaining.

  15. #55
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    Does the heal skill now affect potions?
    Last edited by HunterjWizzard; 09-19-2013 at 01:54 PM.

  16. #56
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    I'm not sure what the point of maximized CLW spells are for everyone all the unless you have high healing amp + a good amount of spellpower these spells are mediocre at best.

    Just dump those spells and the skill points and gear needed to gain a decent benefit from those spells and get some UMD and heal scrolls.
    Well, it might seem sort of pointless I agree. But so is UMD if you have a character that can use heal scrolls without it. And, the idea is to benefit from both a high healing amp and a level appropriate devotion item.

    But, like I say, it is just an idea and it might not apply depending on build choices. And, of course, everyone has different ways they like to go about things -- so it certainly would not be for every player.

  17. #57
    Community Member anivaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterjWizzard View Post
    I am attempting to work my way up towards the ultimate juggernaut with 3 artficer, 3 ranger, 3 fighter and 3 monk past lives. I mostly solo, so I have to work out builds that are self-sufficient and preferablly without a lot of headache. I just finished the first fighter life which I did by going warforged 9 artficer/11 fighter, and the self-healing was abysmal... barely adequite much of the time and completely insufficient the rest(though I could probably have taken my levels in a more sane order, but still...)

    I was thinking of maybe trying a fleshie 7 fvs/2 monk/11 fighter next time, but am unsure how effective this will be.

    Then I was also thinking 7fvs/2 fighter/11 monk for the monk lives. Or may just 8 fvs/12 monk, don't know.

    Keep in mind I mostly solo and at the moment really do not give a **** about epic destinies, so the build just has to be able to hit 20 and TR. I even have other epic level characters to farm the tokens on for hearts of wood. Currently sitting on 2 artificer and now 1 fighter past lifes, and going to be doing a ranger life before I even start with this.

    So... any ideas?
    Is it just me, or did noone mention 10 sorc/10 PL?

    I have never breezed through lives better since the EP. Now even with only 10 levels of sorc, you can get the scorch AND fireball SLA at lvl 12!!! Extremely OPed in my opinion. Build him right and you can even use PK for levels 18-20, when damage is trumped by instakills. Go WF and use recon scrolls to self heal.
    Cannith - Sorrion - Glassbones - Galodon - Farsnipe
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post

    But, like I say, it is just an idea and it might not apply depending on build choices. And, of course, everyone has different ways they like to go about things -- so it certainly would not be for every player.
    Mainly, I'm looking at it in terms of something different to try for some of the lives, so it does apply in that regard. When I started this thread I was looking for build ideas that satisfied 2 criteria: they had to have good self-healing and had to not force me to play a pure class that I find uninteresting. The half-elf dilletante definitely satisfies those criteria.

    The thing I was really hopping for was to get enough different suggestions to never have to repeat a life, and that's definitely one more thing to try.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by anivaj View Post
    Is it just me, or did noone mention 10 sorc/10 PL?

    I have never breezed through lives better since the EP. Now even with only 10 levels of sorc, you can get the scorch AND fireball SLA at lvl 12!!! Extremely OPed in my opinion. Build him right and you can even use PK for levels 18-20, when damage is trumped by instakills. Go WF and use recon scrolls to self heal.
    no no one has mentioned that, I'll add it to my list. Tell me, could you maybe go 1 fighter/10 sorcerer/9 fighter? Then you'd have all the weapon feats right away and still have the sorcerer self-healing kicking in right about when you need it.

    What about 1 paladin/9 sorcerer/10 Past Life?

  20. #60
    Community Member anivaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterjWizzard View Post
    no no one has mentioned that, I'll add it to my list. Tell me, could you maybe go 1 fighter/10 sorcerer/9 fighter? Then you'd have all the weapon feats right away and still have the sorcerer self-healing kicking in right about when you need it.

    What about 1 paladin/9 sorcerer/10 Past Life?
    Nope 10 sorc, then all ten PL levels. You want the fireball as soon as possible, and if you play a sorc right, you will never need a weapon. You can get the burning hands AND acid spray SLAs maxxed quickly, and if you take empower and maximize ASAP, you can do some serious damage with them for low sp.
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