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  1. #1
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    Default GS radiance weapon.. not sure what to make

    My rogue/assassin is approaching level 12 and I'm pretty sure I want to make GS radiance weapon for the useful blinding effect. I'm just not sure what to make. I have taken Weapon Finesse because I like the flexibility and because I have some nice shortswords saved up; this would suggest perhaps going rapier. But the assassin line includes boosts specific to daggers and kukris. With a dagger I'd get 3x crit multiplier, better than a rapier, but the base damage is lower. A kukri would give me a wide range like a rapier, but it's a slashing weapon which is a problem for Improved Critical.

    Any thoughts? I jump from class to class so I'll only be on this rogue for a few weeks unless I really love it. I do still have monk and ranger lives left as I slowly work towards Completionist, along with bard, FVS and druid -- would be nice if I could reuse this on one of them at least, but I don't know those classes well yet. Thanks!

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    I would go with a Rapier, just off hand. I started to build my GS Rad II Rapier, but when I got the Golden Guile I found it procs often enough that I didn't need it anymore.

    My thoughts would be, stick with a weapon that you put feats into. If you took IP piercing, for example, go with a Short Sword or a Rapier. Or a Dagger, that works too. For most rogues, our damage does not come from base damage or crits, though they help. Our damage comes out of sneak attacks and the ability to use them.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks. Yes, that's why I'm looking at this. I will be taking IC:Piercing at level 12, most likely.

    The Cannith challenge rapier also looks interesting starting at level 16. I could combine that with a GS dagger, for example, so that's another consideration.

    It does feel weird to talk about spending tons of pricey ingredients on a dagger, though.

    At higher levels do people have success dual-wielding rapiers? Since they aren't "light" I think there's an extra -2 to-hit penalty, but hitting stuff doesn't seem to be an issue at higher levels.

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    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Are you going pure rogue?

    If so, rapier, you want as many crits as possible. The Raidance proc is superior to the Golden Guile's improved deception in that it also gives you 50% concealment from the Blindness.

    If you're splashing monk, then short sword to stay centered. Less crits, but the earth stance enhancements can almost make up for that. If youre splashing ranger, scimitars can also be considered finesse (light) weapons with enough points in the Tempest tree, but you'll have to switch your IC to slash.

    I used a Heavy pick for my Radiance weapon, with an Earth II light pick as my offhand, but that was a lonnnnnng time ago, and I wouldn't recommend doing that anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    My rogue/assassin is approaching level 12 and I'm pretty sure I want to make GS radiance weapon for the useful blinding effect. I'm just not sure what to make. I have taken Weapon Finesse because I like the flexibility and because I have some nice shortswords saved up; this would suggest perhaps going rapier. But the assassin line includes boosts specific to daggers and kukris. With a dagger I'd get 3x crit multiplier, better than a rapier, but the base damage is lower. A kukri would give me a wide range like a rapier, but it's a slashing weapon which is a problem for Improved Critical.

    Any thoughts? I jump from class to class so I'll only be on this rogue for a few weeks unless I really love it. I do still have monk and ranger lives left as I slowly work towards Completionist, along with bard, FVS and druid -- would be nice if I could reuse this on one of them at least, but I don't know those classes well yet. Thanks!
    Well you definitely want something with a 15% base crit profile for Radiance, which precludes Dagger if you want to use it on a future (non-rogue) life. So that leaves Kukri or Rapier. Neither one of those necessarily aligns well with any of the other classes you named, but I'd say Slashing is probably the more generally useful type as far as Improved Crit.

    Then again, Radiance is not really as useful on non-sneaking classes, either...which, since none of your options are Centered weapons, just leaves your Ranger, really, as the main consideration there.

  6. #6
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    The Cannith challenge rapier also looks interesting starting at level 16. I could combine that with a GS dagger, for example, so that's another consideration.

    At higher levels do people have success dual-wielding rapiers? Since they aren't "light" I think there's an extra -2 to-hit penalty, but hitting stuff doesn't seem to be an issue at higher levels.
    I used an Epic Elemental Rapier of Air for an awfully long time as I was hunting for a Balizarde (I ended up with a Nightmare instead on my 20th CitW, so I redid my character to use that instead) with the Cove Short Sword as offhand, which I replaced with Celestia. Worked fairly well, but is totally outclassed by the CitW weapons. Given your serial TR playstyle, that might be too much grind, though.

    I would definitely take short sword over dagger, if you insist on having a light offhand.

    Dual Celestias is pretty awesome, but the AOEs (which proc a fair amount) can make aggro management a real pain when you're fighting in a big mob. (I'm fairly certain the Greater Sunburst hits everything on screen, as well as most of the adjacent quests )
    Last edited by CheeseMilk; 09-17-2013 at 03:17 PM.

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    Thanks for the replies!

    The'res an assassin tier 5 enhancement that adds one crit range and one multiplier to daggers, so with IC it would be 16-20/x3. I suppose that's better than a rapier in terms of damage but has a 5% less chance of critting.

    I do serial TR but I'm not in a rush and I like to play both heroic and epic levels. How long I stay at epic will depend on how much I'm enjoying rogue. So far it's been pretty dull, but that's because I haven't had any real asassination abilities yet, and because I've had a hard time finding groups.

    I won't grind CITW but my guild runs it twice a week and I might get lucky. I already have a level 20 Cove shortsword, tier 3, and a tier 2 or 3 at level 16 as well. I also have a Treason I pulled and stashed from an FOT run last life.

    Leaning towards rapier at the moment.

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    Treason is a good one, too.

    I pair it with my nightmare when I need to be doing ONLY single-target DPS (such as when I'm fighting Lolth on EH+, and I want the spider spawns to run past me instead of ganging up on me.)

    It has the added benefit of armour piercing, which any rogue needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Thanks for the replies!

    The'res an assassin tier 5 enhancement that adds one crit range and one multiplier to daggers, so with IC it would be 16-20/x3. I suppose that's better than a rapier in terms of damage but has a 5% less chance of critting.
    That same enhancement also works for Kukris, which have a broader crit range to start with, IIRC.

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    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    If you've got monk and ranger lives left use shortswords.

    1monk (ninja spy core 1) lets you be proficient and centred with shortswords, you won't have the same option with rapiers.
    a trip pos 1/4 staff is pretty nifty too.

    Any choice you make now on a pure rogue will be quite a small change, the difference between playing a centred and uncentred monk is a very big change.
    Last edited by fTdOmen; 09-17-2013 at 04:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Thanks for the replies!

    The'res an assassin tier 5 enhancement that adds one crit range and one multiplier to daggers, so with IC it would be 16-20/x3. I suppose that's better than a rapier in terms of damage but has a 5% less chance of critting.
    No. A rogue with knife specialization and IC: piercing has a threat range of 15-20 with a dagger. Your enhancements that increase threat range are applied before IC doubles it. Same is true for the acrobat's staff specialization and kensai's keen edge.

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    Thanks for the replies. So that would make the dagger strictly better than the rapier except for an average 1 point less base damage?

    Heard on the shortswords for monk and ranger, but that would be strictly worse for the rogue since it's just 19-20. Would the dagger work for monk/ranger? I realize there I wouldn't have the crit enhancement and thus it would be worse than the shortsword, again by 1 average base damage, IIRC.

    Phaeton, gotcha on the kukris, but they're slash so leaning against.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseMilk View Post

    If so, rapier, you want as many crits as possible. The Raidance proc is superior to the Golden Guile's improved deception in that it also gives you 50% concealment from the Blindness.
    True. I should think about finishing my Rapier one of these days. I can't remember how far I got with it, after I finished my HP item.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Thanks for the replies. So that would make the dagger strictly better than the rapier except for an average 1 point less base damage?

    Heard on the shortswords for monk and ranger, but that would be strictly worse for the rogue since it's just 19-20. Would the dagger work for monk/ranger? I realize there I wouldn't have the crit enhancement and thus it would be worse than the shortsword, again by 1 average base damage, IIRC.
    Dagger in the hands of an Assassin with the T5 enhancement is exactly the same crit profile as a Rapier, both are Piercing, only less base damage, though it is a Light weapon when that matters.

    Monks, AFAIK, cant wield Daggers and be centered (unless they're also Dagger Kensei). Tempests can dual-wield Daggers, of course, but like you said, shortsword is better in that case (and Rapier even moreso). Rapier is probably your best bet for dual-use Rogue and Ranger.

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    I went Kukri for mine. Pairs well with Midnight Greetings. And as someone else said, that crit-increase for daggers is also for kukri.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Dagger in the hands of an Assassin with the T5 enhancement is exactly the same crit profile as a Rapier, both are Piercing, only less base damage, though it is a Light weapon when that matters.
    But the dagger has a higher multiplier, and with 30% of hits potentially crits, wouldn't that make a significant difference, more than compensating for d4 vs. d6?

    Seems the dagger is a better choice for rogue, rapier perhaps for ranger.. but I can worry about that then. Leaning dagger now.

    Further replies welcomed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Would the dagger work for monk/ranger? I realize there I wouldn't have the crit enhancement and thus it would be worse than the shortsword, again by 1 average base damage, IIRC.

    Phaeton, gotcha on the kukris, but they're slash so leaning against.
    You wouldn't be centred on a monk with daggers or rapiers. I'm guessing you don't really have very good wraps sitting around so these GS weapons will get some re-use.

    On a rogue, your dps is all about sneak attacks, you'll get more of a boost coupling your RAD II weapon with a deception item than you will focusing on maximising your crit threat range.

    Focusing on min maxing rogue lives at the expense of being centered later isn't a wise choice. (especially from my perspective where I'd be splashing 6monk during the ranger lives)

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    I could have sworn rapiers were light weapons. I used them on my rogue for a long time on his first life and I could swear Weapon Finesse applied to them.
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    Okay, appreciate the advice. To be honest, though, I was planning to go unarmed with my monk life, both because I think it fits the flavor better, and because I've already done enough lives with bladed weapons.

    Since I only have one character I actually do have a fair assortment of wraps squirreled away. Going to make the Mabar ones this year too.

    In terms of the rogue, the dagger seems a strictly better choice: d6 with 15-20/x2 is worse than d4 with 15-20/x3. Unless I'm missing something.

    ETA: Coyopa, rapiers qualify for Finesse but are not light weapons (which makes no sense since they really should be lighter than shortswords.)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Okay, appreciate the advice. To be honest, though, I was planning to go unarmed with my monk life, both because I think it fits the flavor better, and because I've already done enough lives with bladed weapons.

    Since I only have one character I actually do have a fair assortment of wraps squirreled away. Going to make the Mabar ones this year too.

    In terms of the rogue, the dagger seems a strictly better choice: d6 with 15-20/x2 is worse than d4 with 15-20/x3. Unless I'm missing something.

    ETA: Coyopa, rapiers qualify for Finesse but are not light weapons (which makes no sense since they really should be lighter than shortswords.)
    im not sure if rapiers are lighter than shortswords I think it depends on the rapier and the shortsword, hope your not thinking of an foil,small sword, side swords instead of a rapier, rapiers average weight was around 1kg 2.2 pounds? though the *rapiers* in ddo often look like light sabre, light as in lightweight not starwars lol. But the names are all confusing and theres been different swords at different times,and different names. Or if they are lighter not by much, definately a bit lighter than a gladius which is probably the most famous *short sword*.

    But if the weapon is *only* for rogue life then go dagger, if your considering using it for other lives then shortsword for monk if you want that option or rapier for other 2wf piercing.

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