Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Canada / G-Land
    Posts
    1,540

    Default To Bluff (better than an MLT?) - can I get som tips and guidance?

    OK, I understand using Bluff to pull things. I enjoy it, I even call out "hey sailor!" when I do it, because... well, I'm odd.


    Bluffing in the context of combat kind of confuses me. I'm under the impression that I don't want to be up in the mob's grill when I do it as the animation takes time.

    It may be the animation that throws me off, but I'm also thrown off by the fact that he looks at me. I've just sort of gotten used to flanking, sneak attacking and assassinating, so I don't like it when they look at me. But with a successful Bluff, in the middle of combat, I can just go up and smack him in the chops?

    Being in combat, this new activity makes it difficult to watch the combat log/dice to be sure things are working as they ought to. It would be different if it was all routine, but new things...


    Could someone please, describe a short Bluff in combat scenario, and what one should see and do?



    Oh, and someone in another thread suggested Bluffing a boss or mini-boss into aggroing onto a more tankish character. Is this merely a matter of cowering behind a Pally or Barb, and then calling out "hey sailor!"?


    TIA for any responses!

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,645

    Default

    Bluff in combat is more like, "Hey! What's that?" or maybe "Look over there."

    You do an animation, and when it works, the mob turn its back to you.

    Problem for me, it seems the animations are a little out of sync, because the mob turn around when I start my animation and sometimes turns back to me about the same time I am done. It used to give me more time to strike.
    http://myaccount.turbine.com

    Je ne suis pas
    DDO Alpha Tester

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,889

    Default

    You can end the animation early by twitching, whether forward, backward, left or right, and then you get right back to burning down his house.
    Sarlona: Acaat || Ahchuykak || Anaiadeia || Atlacoya || Camalos || Coyopa || Gwylelwiel || Imahidden || Kisin || Pukuh || Temporarily

  4. #4
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    "Look, a distraction!"

    Hit bluff, then hit cleave ASAP.

    If you don't have cleave, get cleave. Or at least one of the acrobat AOE trips, or something like it.

    Oh, for the days when Improved Feint worked properly. I mean, it sort of works as advertised, but the delay after using it, you might as well just use the skill.

    If you get your timing down perfectly, factoring in server latency and all that, you can bluff just before something attacks you, and it will attack the air behind it.

    Play around with it , it's nice.

    Just have some threat reduction, and some diplomacy or a friendly intimidater around for when things get too interested in you.

    Note: Cleaving gets around the animation time just as the aforementioned "twitching" (that is, moving slightly) does, and knocks poo out of everything in front of you as well, since bluff is an AOE effect.

    Note2: MLTs are so perky. I love that.
    Last edited by CheeseMilk; 09-17-2013 at 12:56 PM. Reason: added notes

  5. #5
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    At you. Not 'with you'.
    Posts
    1,618

    Default

    as stated. twitch.
    if Ranged, as in Bow, there wont b any animation to worry about (unless you're not firing)
    -dunno about Crossbows. (though they DO make good kindling i m told)
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  6. #6
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Canada / G-Land
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    So... if my Bluffed worked while in combat, he looks the other way (while when not in combat, it pulls him to me). Does the mob do a 180?

    So I gather now that Bluffing a mob onto another player is Bluffing and he notices the other player when he turns? Or does he just attack behind him, and cause an interaction with whomever is there; if someone is?



    @Coyopa
    Ending the animation prematurely will allow me to attack and won't prevent the success of or interrupt the Bluff? (I read it this way, but I'm just double-checking.)



    @Tscheuss
    Yeah, that looking back at me so quickly thing confuses me. Did it work, did it fail? But I guess if he looked at all, it worked.



    @CheeseMilk
    I can interrupt an attack? Very interesting.
    I did not invest in anything from the Acrobat tree, except faster sneaking, oh, and the Flourish (dunno why), so no trip, or cleave.
    Would an Assassinate/Execute followed up by a Shiv or Flourish (which are advertised to reduce threat) work OK?

  7. #7

    Default

    Bluff wont cause the mobs to go for another target, that is Diplomacy. For agro purposes Bluff is almost better than than Intimidate, as the mobs agro gets turned to you instantly. Obviously not always nice for a Rogue (can still get SA, even when the baddie is on you) - I just mean, it isnt always nice to get pounded on as a rogue.

    With some practice, instead of the Bluff/Cleave sequence suggested, you can even get the hang of Assassinating them.
    Bluff..., then jump backwards a bit, so you wont get hit while your target spins on the spot while attacking... Hit Sneak and Assassinate in midair. Really fun, stuff. You can practise it on yoour own, so you are sure agro can only be on you...

    Ilmer
    Ilmer Silverhilt, 36pt Elf Fighter12/Monk6/Paladin2.
    Mesmerita d'Jorasco, 36pt Drow Bard20.
    Acrobot, 34pt Warforged Rogue20.
    The Adventure Pack(158), Cannith.

  8. #8
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    The mob will turn 180 right away, but will turn back to whatever it is aggroed on as soon as its animations allow it to. If that's you (and it more that likely will be), it will still be vulnerable to sneak attacks for... 6? (been a while, sorry) seconds after a successful bluff.

  9. #9
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Sarcasm Inc., Sarlona Branch
    Posts
    3,121

    Default

    The only use I ever found to improved feint was this one time I was trying a rogue fighter tank build that used intimidate to gather a group up, then improved feint to allow me to sneak attack them all while still holding aggro. It was a fun time and actually worked as improved feint has (or used to have, I haven't checked in a while) it's own cooldown separate from the normal bluff CD.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  10. #10
    Community Member rest's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burque
    Posts
    5,602

    Default

    This is how I like to do it: run towards a mob not stealthed so he sees his doom coming -> hit bluff as I am almost to him -> hit sneak -> mash the assassinate hotkey -> win.

    Or if I am sneaking and I'm worried the mob will spot me before I get there, I bluff and keep moving towards the mob and assassinate him. You don't have to let the animation finish to take advantage of the mob's bluffed state.

  11. #11
    Community Member rest's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burque
    Posts
    5,602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseMilk View Post
    "Look, a distraction!"

    Hit bluff, then hit cleave ASAP.

    If you don't have cleave, get cleave. Or at least one of the acrobat AOE trips, or something like it.

    Oh, for the days when Improved Feint worked properly. I mean, it sort of works as advertised, but the delay after using it, you might as well just use the skill.

    If you get your timing down perfectly, factoring in server latency and all that, you can bluff just before something attacks you, and it will attack the air behind it.

    Play around with it , it's nice.

    Just have some threat reduction, and some diplomacy or a friendly intimidater around for when things get too interested in you.

    Note: Cleaving gets around the animation time just as the aforementioned "twitching" (that is, moving slightly) does, and knocks poo out of everything in front of you as well, since bluff is an AOE effect.

    Note2: MLTs are so perky. I love that.
    Bluff is not an AOE effect, it is single target. Diplo is AOE.

  12. #12
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Sarcasm Inc., Sarlona Branch
    Posts
    3,121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    Bluff is not an AOE effect, it is single target. Diplo is AOE.
    Improved feint is AOE bluff.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,747

    Default

    Thanks for the "twitch tip".

    I've used Cleave and Great Cleave on all my melee so far but haven't taken it on my rogue because it seemed like more of a THF thing. I've been using feats for the TWF line. Is Cleave worth it with two-weapon fighting?

  14. #14
    Community Member rest's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burque
    Posts
    5,602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseMilk View Post
    since bluff is an AOE effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Improved feint is AOE bluff.
    He didn't say improved feint, he specifically said bluff. I was simply clarifying.

  15. #15
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    So... if my Bluffed worked while in combat, he looks the other way (while when not in combat, it pulls him to me). Does the mob do a 180?

    So I gather now that Bluffing a mob onto another player is Bluffing and he notices the other player when he turns? Or does he just attack behind him, and cause an interaction with whomever is there; if someone is?



    @Coyopa
    Ending the animation prematurely will allow me to attack and won't prevent the success of or interrupt the Bluff? (I read it this way, but I'm just double-checking.)



    @Tscheuss
    Yeah, that looking back at me so quickly thing confuses me. Did it work, did it fail? But I guess if he looked at all, it worked.



    @CheeseMilk
    I can interrupt an attack? Very interesting.
    I did not invest in anything from the Acrobat tree, except faster sneaking, oh, and the Flourish (dunno why), so no trip, or cleave.
    Would an Assassinate/Execute followed up by a Shiv or Flourish (which are advertised to reduce threat) work OK?
    Yes, the mob will turn around. Not always, but most of the time. Sometimes, they fail to turn even though your Bluff was successful. In those cases, the only way you know it worked is when you see the stream of sneak attack damage rolling off their heads (or feet in the case of giants). Twitching lets you get back to attacking right away and is useful if you lack cleave (as my rogue does). So, I rely on twitching to get back to cutting them down.

    If you have a weapon with Deception or Improved Deception OR if you have an item with Deception or Improved Deception on it, those have a chance to cause a Bluff check without you using the skill. Having it on an item is better than on a weapon, but having it on BOTH is better still (because they both can proc and let me tell you that is WONDERFUL).

    Also, investing in your fortification bypass abilities is very useful. The feat Precision gives you 25% fortification bypass. The Wracking Strike/Shot ability from the Mechanic tree lowers constructs' fortification when you use it (for 20s) and stacks up to 5 times, resetting the timer each time you use it. Blasting Chime will give you 30% more fort bypass on constructs. Grim Precision from the Shadowdancer epic destiny gives you another 15% against all monsters. Finally, some weapons have the "armor-piercing" enchantment on them for even more fort bypass against all mobs (Envenomed Blade comes to mind). My rogue uses Precision and Grim Precision for 50% bypass against everything, and his bypass against constructs is 110%. This enables you to sneak attack undead (except really powerful undead) and virtually all constructs, making you considerably more powerful against these monsters where rogues are traditionally weak.
    Sarlona: Acaat || Ahchuykak || Anaiadeia || Atlacoya || Camalos || Coyopa || Gwylelwiel || Imahidden || Kisin || Pukuh || Temporarily

  16. #16
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Sarcasm Inc., Sarlona Branch
    Posts
    3,121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    He didn't say improved feint, he specifically said bluff. I was simply clarifying.
    I know, I knew someone would say this just after I posted. I was just providing further information, not meaning to seem like I was trying to correct anyone.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  17. #17
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    My rogue uses Precision and Grim Precision for 50% bypass against everything, and his bypass against constructs is 110%. This enables you to sneak attack undead (except really powerful undead) and virtually all constructs, making you considerably more powerful against these monsters where rogues are traditionally weak.
    I'm still confused about this, because I have Precision, which means I should get SA damage on undead occasionally, and cannot recall ever seeing it.

  18. #18
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    Bluff is not an AOE effect, it is single target. Diplo is AOE.
    Really?

    Could have sworn I've seen the bluffed icon over multiple heads when I hit it without a hard target selected. Maybe just an old graphical glitch, or maybe I'm just remembering Improved Feint.

    Been a long while since I've played my acrobat.

  19. #19
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I'm still confused about this, because I have Precision, which means I should get SA damage on undead occasionally, and cannot recall ever seeing it.
    It doesn't happen often. I might hazard a guess that some undead have higher than 100% fort, too.

    Stack as many fort bypasses as you can, and you'll start seeing it.

    I know I crit Truthful one quite often with Grim Precision and Black Scale armour, but I'm not generally in range to get sneak attack.

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseMilk View Post
    It doesn't happen often. I might hazard a guess that some undead have higher than 100% fort, too.

    Stack as many fort bypasses as you can, and you'll start seeing it.

    I know I crit Truthful one quite often with Grim Precision and Black Scale armour, but I'm not generally in range to get sneak attack.
    Some undead indeed have greater than 100% fortification. Mummies and liches nearly always do (I can *never* sneak attack Raiyum). Incorporeal undead sometimes do. You don't see many sneak attacks on undead at lower levels. It is rather disappointing, but it does come in time. By the time I am able to use Shadowdancer on Imahidden again, he is able to sneak attack them about half the time.
    Sarlona: Acaat || Ahchuykak || Anaiadeia || Atlacoya || Camalos || Coyopa || Gwylelwiel || Imahidden || Kisin || Pukuh || Temporarily

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload