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  1. #21
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Currently Rangers can get 75 Pos Spell Power by spending a few points in the two DWS Empathy Enhancements.

    Turbine are changing that, it's not in the Release Notes, but go check out Lamm. Those two Enhancements will now give 20 (Between them) and the rest of the Pos Spell Power are placed in the DWS Core Enhancements.

    Not meant as a personal attack here, but being pigeon-holed into DWS if I want any form of Self Healing is not my definition of "Well Rounded".
    that really sucks...........I hate how they have done things like that to really pigeon hole all the self healing into heavy investment into *one* class prestige. I know they are trying to kill off the people who min max and get the most out of light splashes but it really hurts deep splashed rangers and pure as well.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    that really sucks...........I hate how they have done things like that to really pigeon hole all the self healing into heavy investment into *one* class prestige. I know they are trying to kill off the people who min max and get the most out of light splashes but it really hurts deep splashed rangers and pure as well.
    Counterpoint, if you're pure Ranger, what else are you going to spend your AP on? Were you planning on going deep in AA and Tempest? DWS has backup skills for both archery and TWF, its not like its a complete junk tree.

    I'm not a fan of the changes, I liked that Ranger could get essentially Emp Heal without having to go 8 levels deep...but I think it hurts deep splashers more than pures.

  3. #23
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Counterpoint, if you're pure Ranger, what else are you going to spend your AP on? Were you planning on going deep in AA and Tempest? DWS has backup skills for both archery and TWF, its not like its a complete junk tree.

    I'm not a fan of the changes, I liked that Ranger could get essentially Emp Heal without having to go 8 levels deep...but I think it hurts deep splashers more than pures.
    This is what I think every time someone brings this up and complains about pure rangers.
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  4. #24
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  5. #25
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    why would anyone spend APs on to get raise/rez when you can just buy the scrolls? I know its good to get a quickened rez off in a bad situation but I find AP's are pretty tight on my paladin and I get more out of my AP's on my other toons than I seem to get via investing in my paladin enhancements.

    Yeah they could both do with some better spells, and some more work on spells that seem pretty weak now, or useless, especially paladins. I wouldn't object to both getting a little more sp especially paladins, got to keep a lot of short duration buffs up for dps, and spam divine sacrifice and heal themselves., and maybe rangers get cure light earlier say at level 4 and maybe front load the sp a little bit, not enough to encourage shallow splashes so much, but to give maybe slightly more benifits to new players?
    I agree there are definitely better ways to spend your APs. I was just mentioning it.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Sianys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post



    Nice! I am now pleasantly surprised - thanks, Archangel_666.
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  7. #27
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    I don't know if I agree with the premise that all three classes should have a mini spell pass, like many of us thought would happen with the "spell pass" but never happened. But I'd go along with it if it was a few tweaks for ranger and Pali; but a real spell pass for Bards.

    Pali's got a little buff from Divine might being instant and lasting longer, not that it's technically a spell, but I think things like "Angleskin" could certainly use a pass to make the more in line with modern game numbers. Certainly Pali's deserve to have a devotion line of spell power back, seeing as the ranger players lobbied successfully to get it. Right now you have to devote mass AP's to being S&B if you want spell power for your cures. Pali's are rather tragically negleted by Turbine because people who play only Pali's think it's the best thing since sliced bread. And the class is popular because it's easy button "BYOH"...

    Rangers are not really supposed to be a magical class, much like Pali's they are given a few spells to differentiate them from straight melee's Cure light wounds is there to represent minor healing empathy... the fact that you can amp this up with 200 spell power and 40 or 50% heal amp and make it useful is not really intended. Rams might is supposed to be flavor (Think along the lines of: the hunter drinks the blood of his kill gaining some of it's power) but was accidentally over powered (never supposed to be +3 damage for a level 1 spell)

    Bards are pigeonholed into either doing no DPS at all, or being a Warchanter weak melee with some buffs and good self heals.

    Spellsinger got nerfed in the pass in favor of buffing virtuoso by giving it slightly nerfed Spellsinger songs. Meanwhile spellsinger bards got those nerfed spellsinger songs and some Virtuoso fascinate buffs that are useless in PUG's unless you manage to get everyone to agree to lower their DPS in the name of letting the Bard do something besides pike (but you can always be a warchanter instead, you know buffs n' melee).

    Try using "shout" and "greater shout" if there's a more finicky pain to target DPS spell in the game I don't know what it is... I pronounce them "totally useless" simply because to actually play a character that uses them regularly would be so unfun that it would make you want to quit playing. I actually have a Bard that maxed Sonic spell power and crits before the pass, and let me tell you it's sad when you get more utility out of a level 1 and level 2 sonic spell than you do the level 5 greater shout... and don't even have regular shout slotted any more. When you managed to build in 500+ sonic spell power and 25% sonic crits (which was a fantastic number before the pass) but you don't use the highest level sonic spells, then something is seriously wrong with those spells!

    So a Bard is stuck doing nothing but CC/Buffing or going warchanter... Mind you I'm not asking for them to be good spell DPS, just like Warchanter is not good Melee DPS, just "meh" spell DPS. Something to do if you're not melee, and no ones paying attention to your fascinates.

    At the very least I would love to see them make Greater shout less of a finicky spell and improve the AEO (it's supposed to be conical but it ends up being single target 80% of the time and double target 10% of the time, that's only 90% you say? yeah that's how often you will simply miss/not hit anything (despite being aimed correctly and hard targeted) or get the "you are not facing" etc. in other words that's how finicky it is) and double the range (it's not far from a touch spell)... Give Bards Sound lance (D&D spell) and a Sonic DOT. and add "greater Sound burst" AOE. At least then a Spellsinger would have a DPS option.

    Then add a new Bard tree with the missing "Wall of Sound" stuff from the white boarding they were pretending was "work in progress" for the enhancement pass.

    It's sad but the best min/maxed Sonic build now has ZERO Bard levels (think a Shiradi Air Sorc with Wiz and Druid splashes which is what my Bard will 20LR into at some point).
    Last edited by IronClan; 09-17-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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  8. #28
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    Rangers need a pet that you can name...its terrible that this is not included for rangers.

    i think rangers and paly's have ok spells considering that spells are not supposed to be potent, however they need to be able to have a better selection as in...having more types available at once.

    cant speak for bards as i dont really play bards.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightsubzero View Post
    Rangers need a pet that you can name...its terrible that this is not included for rangers.

    i think rangers and paly's have ok spells considering that spells are not supposed to be potent, however they need to be able to have a better selection as in...having more types available at once.

    cant speak for bards as i dont really play bards.
    I have a lowbie Paladin and a lowbie Bard, but i'm not really in a position to comment on those classes.

    Afaik, Rangers existed before animal companions were implemented in the game, and so they were given the animal summons to compensate for the lack of companions. Yes, those summons are weak, but can be buffed a bit with some Ranger spells. Although, not having many spell-slots or spell-points available brings certain limits to this function.
    Regarding the Animal Empathy, and the Improved one, i've personally used them a bit and they can work, unlike some "similar" spells they have that are useless imo.
    Regarding the enhancements, DWS line not only the only one which gives Positive Spell Power, but also the only one utilizing the Favored Enemy feats. And i really don't know what is the case now with Favored Enemies, don't Rangers get any benefits against them nowadays unless they spend APs in those DWS enhancements?
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  10. #30
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Sure, give rangers their useless animal companions, and BTW, make them choose archery or TWF style at lvl2, as in rules.

    Even if presented with more spells, rangers (not all, but most of puggers) will not know that they have them, ask for fom and resists, and/or waste mana on mass camo or mass long strider.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Sure, give rangers their useless animal companions, and BTW, make them choose archery or TWF style at lvl2, as in rules.
    Yeah, like DDO goes by the rules in general...

    And i have no idea if companions are any useful, but based on your comment i guess not, so thanks for nothing :P



    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Even if presented with more spells, rangers (not all, but most of puggers) will not know that they have them, ask for fom and resists, and/or waste mana on mass camo or mass long strider.
    Most new/inexperienced players play their classes badly anyway (and i don't understand why some people use the terms pugger and inexperienced like they mean the same thing)... Resists are one of the most useful spells, and Rangers get it, but guildbuff-resists have reduced their utility (sometimes i think the game would be better-off without them - at least how they work now). Also, Rangers get many spells (and skills) that boost stealth-play, but that's almost useless when not soloing.
    Last edited by Grecan; 11-27-2013 at 08:30 AM.
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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    waste mana on mass camo
    Ha!

    I do cast mass camo on my ranger to remove the barkskin graphic and return my armor to its normal look. I would use the non-mass version but I only get three level 1 spells and spend those on Ram's Might, Resist Energy and Jump.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Ha!

    I do cast mass camo on my ranger to remove the barkskin graphic and return my armor to its normal look. I would use the non-mass version but I only get three level 1 spells and spend those on Ram's Might, Resist Energy and Jump.
    First of all, i thought Rangers used mass-camo only in public instances, lol

    Secondly... i thought with camo your armor doesn't look normal.

    And lastly, if anyone could answer my question regarding Favored Enemies (some posts above) i'd be grateful
    If i haven't responded to your post, it doesn't necessarily mean that i don't have counter-arguments, it might simply mean that i don't want to keep feeding the trolls.
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  14. #34
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    It's odd that bards get the spellcraft skill, but don't get any spells that gain spellpower bonuses from this skill.

    As for rangers and paladins, they have a bunch of spells that can be replaced with items, potions or item clickies. I think that rangers are worse off than paladins in terms of their self-healing and survivability. They don't get the cure light wounds spell until level *8*!

    Perhaps a spell pass is in order?
    Actually the D&D 3.5 spellbook compedium has a ton of bard, ranger and paladin spells some of which are great which could be added. If the devs get their act together and add some of those that would be cool especially since paladins could use a bump and bards could use some more spell variety.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Ha!

    I do cast mass camo on my ranger to remove the barkskin graphic and return my armor to its normal look. I would use the non-mass version but I only get three level 1 spells and spend those on Ram's Might, Resist Energy and Jump.
    And as a side effect, no one in party knows if their stone skin needs to be recasted or not.
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  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    And as a side effect, no one in party knows if their stone skin needs to be recasted or not.
    Yep, which is why I run off to the side to do it. I'd much prefer the personal camo spell but it is what it is.

    I hate having my stoneskin graphic removed, so I go out of my way to avoid removing it for others.

  17. #37
    Community Member Phrida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Yep, which is why I run off to the side to do it. I'd much prefer the personal camo spell but it is what it is.

    I hate having my stoneskin graphic removed, so I go out of my way to avoid removing it for others.
    This is why i bark then use stoneskin, then i don't have to bother with camo

  18. #38
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    The ranger summon spells are not meant to be combat worthy. They are meant to be an aid to stealth as a distraction so you can sneak by and use that lever/switch/door/whatever.

    /signed on the more spells for paladins, bards, and rangers
    Just because this is the only thing the summons are good for, doesn't mean that's what they are supposed to be used for.

    The 3.5 Complete books and Spell Compendium have numerous spells for both the ranger and paladin that could be added to the game (the DDO team has drawn on these for some of the newer spells for the other casting classes, and for paladin's Zeal, although that spell is a far cry from what's described in the books).

    Notably, there are spells that improve a ranger's TWF and archery DPS, give them an AoE archery attack, and cover some other utility and defensive bases, while paladins get some DPS boosting spells of their own, including some rather strong parallels to Recitation, the ability to add Undead Bane to their weapon, oodles of defensive buffs for themselves, their armor, and their shields, and spells to aid in tanking, by either drawing "aggro" directly, allowing a tank to get past intervening enemies to reach their target, or by imposing debuffs on creatures not attacking the paladin.

    DDO could use many of these!

    I also feel that Holy Sword should be changed to an artificer-like personal weapon enchantment that grants your equipped weapon(s) the Holy Burst property, and causes them to count as Cold Iron, Silver and Byeshk. Then, I think paladins should also receive Axiomatic Sword as a separate spell that works similarly, possibly changing the metal types. The Holy Sword spell as we have it now, is almost entirely useless at its level, given the power of random, easily acquired loot by that point in the game.
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  19. #39
    Community Member avepepix's Avatar
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    Default Diferent Spell List

    The Bard - Ranger - Pala in reallity needs another spell list, add domain if you prefer.
    Not "better" spells.
    The ranger has his own spell list (if the spells are usefull or not, thats another story)
    The same can be done with the bard and paladin, its only a matter of time to look in the manuals of 3.5

  20. #40
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Does 2 months dead count as a necromancy? lol


    Oh well, anyways....

    For paladins, I only have a use for a few of their spells: Divine Favor, Zeal, Cure Mod Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, Resist Energy and Seek Eternal Rest (only in undead quests). Everything else is either available on a potion or item, or is rendered obsolete by equipment, or in the case of Virtue not worth the spell points to cast.

    The ranger spell list has some of the same problems, but unlike paladins they have DC-based CC spells that use wisdom as their casting stat. These are impractical since unlike real caster classes a ranger can't afford to put too much into DCs.

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