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  1. #1
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Default Bards, Rangers and Paladins need better spells

    It's odd that bards get the spellcraft skill, but don't get any spells that gain spellpower bonuses from this skill.

    As for rangers and paladins, they have a bunch of spells that can be replaced with items, potions or item clickies. I think that rangers are worse off than paladins in terms of their self-healing and survivability. They don't get the cure light wounds spell until level *8*!

    Perhaps a spell pass is in order?

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    /Signed.

    Oh and make the bloody Summons scale with Ranger Levels for god's sake.

    A CR 4 Young Razorcat at level 14 is just insulting. (Especially since anyone can have a CR 14 Air Ellie at level 4 if they run Cove).

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    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    /Signed.

    Oh and make the bloody Summons scale with Ranger Levels for god's sake.

    A CR 4 Young Razorcat at level 14 is just insulting. (Especially since anyone can have a CR 14 Air Ellie at level 4 if they run Cove).
    The ranger summon spells are not meant to be combat worthy. They are meant to be an aid to stealth as a distraction so you can sneak by and use that lever/switch/door/whatever.

    /signed on the more spells for paladins, bards, and rangers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    The ranger summon spells are not meant to be combat worthy. They are meant to be an aid to stealth as a distraction so you can sneak by and use that lever/switch/door/whatever.

    /signed on the more spells for paladins, bards, and rangers
    well that doesnt seem very rangery, summoning a pet just to be cannon fodder. plus you cant control them like hires anyway. plus dont monsters aggro you once your pet aggroes them and dies? also plus, can you summon while stealthed without breaking stealth?

    summons need a pass in general, make their CL a function of your caster level, with higher summons having better attacks/spells/damage/"gear" stats/etc., but base hit die scales with caster level.

    But regarding the main question...I only have Ranger so thats all I can speak to, but other than a few buffs (which can be potted/ship buffed/etc) all they have is self heals. most of their spells are pointless to slot, ie waterbreathing, all their CC skills dont have realistic DCs, and summons are useless.

    That being said, they do have unique buffs for stealth, and self heals arent bad now with Devotion in DWS (for the moment) and Emp Heal. but a quick pass is probably due, figure out exactly what Rangers are "supposed" to do with their blue bar and align it a little more in that direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    But regarding the main question...I only have Ranger so thats all I can speak to, but other than a few buffs (which can be potted/ship buffed/etc) all they have is self heals. most of their spells are pointless to slot, ie waterbreathing, all their CC skills dont have realistic DCs, and summons are useless.
    Wow. I need to find that Ram's Might and Freedom of Movement potion vendor.

    Rangers and Paladins are tertiary casters. Their spells are not intended to be combat effective nukes or crowd control. If that is what you wanted from them, then you are doing it very, very wrong. The spells that they are able to cast are extremely limited because they are a tiny perk on top of their combat abilities.

    In addition to being quite viable pure, Rangers in particular have become an extremely strong splash class, either both deep and shallow. Giving them meaningful Crowd Control via magic rather than Paralyzing Arrows or something would be quite ridiculous from a class balance standpoint.

    Paladins are in much worse shape, but then they never really have had a good place in DDO. The different development teams we have had over the years never really have figured out how to make Paladins fit well. But giving them an increased spell selection is not going to change that.

  6. #6
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    well that doesnt seem very rangery, summoning a pet just to be cannon fodder. plus you cant control them like hires anyway. plus dont monsters aggro you once your pet aggroes them and dies? also plus, can you summon while stealthed without breaking stealth?
    There are guides, both written and video on how to use summons to aid stealth play. They explain it better than I can. Suffice it to say that they are useful to stealth if you understand how.

    I still think rangers should get animal companions (preferably a bird just so its not the same thing as a druids wolf), but I seriously doubt it will ever happen. Doing something with enhancements like the PM skeletons would even work for me. Rangers were never, and have never been, summoners. I don't think they should be going that route with their spells.

    The spells I would like them to add would be things to aid stealth and ranged/twf combat.
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    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    If I were giving rangers and paladins more spells, what I'd do is give them their own weapon-enhancing spells, similar to artificer infusions.

    For example, paladins would get a spell that gives them ghostbane on their weapon(s), or cold iron DR plus extra damage vs. chaotic, etc. Rangers would get an infusion that gives increased sneak attack damge. Furthermore, paladins would gain spells that give sacred bonuses to PRR and AC, while rangers would gain a spell or two that gives them a dodge bonus due to concealment. These are just off the top of my head. Not sure what I would give bards, since I don't play that class much.

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    I'd like to see more spells for everybody (particularly the original classes), as it's a great way to add diversity and range to existing character options.

  9. #9
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    As I understand it, ranger and paladin blue bars are for casting resist energy on party members who have died, so as to save the divine and arcane spell point bars for healing and haste/raging the barbarian, respectively.

  10. #10

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    For my part time ranger AA, I used them for maximized cure <X>, Rams Might, Bark skin, Resist Energy if the ship buffs are gone, Rejuvenate Cocoon, Renewal (if on Exalted Angel destiny), any AA imbues, Energy Sheath, Energy Burst and Go Out On A Bang (if on Draconic Incarnation destiny).

    On a purer ranger, also the Freedom of Movement, Neutralize Poison, Cure Disease spells.

    On a Kobolds related challenge, it also helps to buff the Kobolds to walk faster by giving them Long Strider.

    For any quest that needs swimming, merfolk's seems to help.

    Yeah, they are not a nuker or a crowd controller, at least not with spells.
    Their paralyzing arrows are pretty amazing though; and goes along pretty well with some no save Shiradi skills from range. Now, no caster can claim that they can range dance a mob with no save DC and penetrates spell resistance 100% of the time.

    If you do want an animal companion though, summon your Treesym or bat or parrot... and wear an eye patch... and insisted that everyone you met call you Captain <X>....
    Last edited by Tyrande; 09-17-2013 at 01:32 PM.

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  11. #11
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    If you do want an animal companion though, summon your Treesym or bat or parrot... and wear an eye patch... and insisted that everyone you met call you Captain <X>....
    Actually I am debating whether or not I want to try and grind out an epic wolf whistle to represent my animal companion. Only thing holding me back from that grind is how much I hate DQ.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    It's odd that bards get the spellcraft skill, but don't get any spells that gain spellpower bonuses from this skill.

    As for rangers and paladins, they have a bunch of spells that can be replaced with items, potions or item clickies. I think that rangers are worse off than paladins in terms of their self-healing and survivability. They don't get the cure light wounds spell until level *8*!

    Perhaps a spell pass is in order?
    Sure, at some point, but I don't think this high up on the priority list. In terms of Paladin spells there are a number of useless spells that could use an update, but on the other hand there are some really good spells to use your limited mana on: divine favor, resist energy, cure moderate, cure serious, zeal, death ward. That's not to mention the raise dead, resurrection and true res you can get if you spend the APs, or divine sacrifice, which every Paladin should be spamming in combat.

    More importantly, Paladins could you some improvements to their enhancements, but that's another discussion.
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  13. #13
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    For my part time ranger AA, I used them for maximized cure <X>, Rams Might, Bark skin, Resist Energy if the ship buffs are gone, Rejuvenate Cocoon, Renewal (if on Exalted Angel destiny), any AA imbues, Energy Sheath, Energy Burst and Go Out On A Bang (if on Draconic Incarnation destiny).

    On a purer ranger, also the Freedom of Movement, Neutralize Poison, Cure Disease spells.

    On a Kobolds related challenge, it also helps to buff the Kobolds to walk faster by giving them Long Strider.

    For any quest that needs swimming, merfolk's seems to help.

    Yeah, they are not a nuker or a crowd controller, at least not with spells.
    Their paralyzing arrows are pretty amazing though; and goes along pretty well with some no save Shiradi skills from range. Now, no caster can claim that they can range dance a mob with no save DC and penetrates spell resistance 100% of the time.

    If you do want an animal companion though, summon your Treesym or bat or parrot... and wear an eye patch... and insisted that everyone you met call you Captain <X>....
    Personally, I think that it's strange for rangers to have any DC-related spells at all, unless those DCs depend on dexterity, constitution or strength. I'd just like to see more spells that provide more DPS with weapons, the single-target Vigor spells. It's sad to see the two DC-based spells on the ranger's spell list, since they can't really hit reliably and ranger don't have enough mana for spamming them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    It's odd that bards get the spellcraft skill, but don't get any spells that gain spellpower bonuses from this skill.

    As for rangers and paladins, they have a bunch of spells that can be replaced with items, potions or item clickies. I think that rangers are worse off than paladins in terms of their self-healing and survivability. They don't get the cure light wounds spell until level *8*!

    Perhaps a spell pass is in order?
    Rangers are extremely well rounded class that gets almost half of the relevant non casting non tanking abilities in the game for free. They simply dont need any buffing. They are hell of strong as they are, filling their role excellently. As said by someone before me, please direct me to closest Ram might and FoM vendor.
    That said, their summoning spells suck and should be improved along with summoning as whole concept in DDO.

    Paladins needs to find their role in DDO as a class, I agree with that, but their spell selection is excellent - as MEELE class, they have True Ressurection and all lower tiers of it opened to them, they have cures, deathward and two very potent and unique abilities: Zeal and Sacrifice.

    Bards I have no idea about, cause I havent run one yet. It is part of my future TR plan thou...

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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    Rangers are extremely well rounded class that gets almost half of the relevant non casting non tanking abilities in the game for free. They simply dont need any buffing. They are hell of strong as they are, filling their role excellently. As said by someone before me, please direct me to closest Ram might and FoM vendor.
    That said, their summoning spells suck and should be improved along with summoning as whole concept in DDO.

    Paladins needs to find their role in DDO as a class, I agree with that, but their spell selection is excellent - as MEELE class, they have True Ressurection and all lower tiers of it opened to them, they have cures, deathward and two very potent and unique abilities: Zeal and Sacrifice.

    Bards I have no idea about, cause I havent run one yet. It is part of my future TR plan thou...
    Just out of curiosity, but are you aware of what will be happening to Rangers soon with regards Devotion Enhancements?

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    Community Member Sianys's Avatar
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    Meh. I'm on the fence regarding the spells, though I will say that better Summon Monster-types would be great. I'm happy with the DPS and everything else. The one thing that has bugged me has been - as I've perceived it - the near uselessness of Animal Empathy. Has anyone who has played a ranger used it with any frequency, if at all? I have a feeling that the answer is "no," but I'm open to surprise. Regardless, let's make THAT count for something, such as a bonus to those summons.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    Sure, at some point, but I don't think this high up on the priority list. In terms of Paladin spells there are a number of useless spells that could use an update, but on the other hand there are some really good spells to use your limited mana on: divine favor, resist energy, cure moderate, cure serious, zeal, death ward. That's not to mention the raise dead, resurrection and true res you can get if you spend the APs, or divine sacrifice, which every Paladin should be spamming in combat.

    More importantly, Paladins could you some improvements to their enhancements, but that's another discussion.
    why would anyone spend APs on to get raise/rez when you can just buy the scrolls? I know its good to get a quickened rez off in a bad situation but I find AP's are pretty tight on my paladin and I get more out of my AP's on my other toons than I seem to get via investing in my paladin enhancements.

    Yeah they could both do with some better spells, and some more work on spells that seem pretty weak now, or useless, especially paladins. I wouldn't object to both getting a little more sp especially paladins, got to keep a lot of short duration buffs up for dps, and spam divine sacrifice and heal themselves., and maybe rangers get cure light earlier say at level 4 and maybe front load the sp a little bit, not enough to encourage shallow splashes so much, but to give maybe slightly more benifits to new players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, but are you aware of what will be happening to Rangers soon with regards Devotion Enhancements?
    Nope, not even a little bit - I am generally finding new stuff from release notes which I read while downloading said change. Would you elaborate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    Nope, not even a little bit - I am generally finding new stuff from release notes which I read while downloading said change. Would you elaborate?
    Currently Rangers can get 75 Pos Spell Power by spending a few points in the two DWS Empathy Enhancements.

    Turbine are changing that, it's not in the Release Notes, but go check out Lamm. Those two Enhancements will now give 20 (Between them) and the rest of the Pos Spell Power are placed in the DWS Core Enhancements.

    Not meant as a personal attack here, but being pigeon-holed into DWS if I want any form of Self Healing is not my definition of "Well Rounded".

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