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Thread: Amrath XP

  1. #41
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    You're probably right. However, I find it a little odd that people will run the Dreaming Dark quests regularly for what I recollect to be about half of the potential XP you'd get in a single Amrath quest. Now granted, I know they are shorter, and there is Dreaming Dark flagging involved, but the quests do not offer a whole lot of XP overall. Ioun stones are sorta inconsequential (with a few notable exceptions), and the Mindsunder loot is really underwhelming nowadays. Yet those quests seem to be stacked three deep at times.

    Is it an XP / min thing, or are there other reasons? Could it be that they are just plain easy XP buy comparison?
    IQ is shorter and easier than Amrath. they are pretty simple to figure out unlike a random map and levers like in Amrath and you don't need to run far. you can knock out the Mindsunder chain in less than an hour. in Amrath, people want to re-do ship buffs after every quest since they take a little longer.

    IQ used to be a good xp/min farming place but most quests aren't worth repeating on the same difficulty. its better to do E/H/N and move on. if at 18 and going to bank 19 and as long as didn't touch level 16+ content, IQ is one and done, repeat Monastery maybe a few times, one and done Prey and ETK, one and done Vale, LOD up through Rift is one and done and don't even need to touch anything else depending on VIP bonus, xp pots, a little slayer while waiting for the group to get to the quest , deaths, etc. at the very least you might be a rank or two short of cap.

  2. #42
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    it's xp/min, and imo easier quests in general except for mindsunder and dreaming dark themselves.

    That said I'd still run amrath in a pug if I saw it up, I just really like those quests.
    I kinda do too. I remember running Sins with my first-life wizzy - totally gimped - with a group of people where the party leader ragequit because...well...of me. So we stuck together, worked with whatever strong points I had at that time (and it obviously wasn't CC), and toughed it out.

    Strangely enough we finished.

    After I fixed my wizzy I remember doing Elite Weapons Shipment. A major lag-fest but people were laughing hysterically, and incredulous at the sheer number of mobs they had to fight. Again, the whole group toughed it out and were successful.

    The only quest that I think totally sucks is a New Invasion as the boss fight is unbelievably skewed to accommodate FvS and Clerics (maybe even arties, I'm not sure), and I hate the "rat in a maze" like nature of the quest. Bastion, however, I sorta like as well.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Re-read post.

    I’m running maybe 5 levels over the quest level? I’m still pulling anywhere from 10 – 15K XP without BB and all of these XP boosters?

    Granted I’m not one of those people who looks at this stuff really closely, but just casual observation tells me that maybe the base XP is not what everyone assumes it is?
    Is that on a first ever elite run? If so, the first time elite +80% more than makes up for the -75% for 5 levels over, then add in conquest, ransack, etc and it's not hard to believe the xp is pretty good. Run it again and see how disappointing things are. That good xp is something of an illusion made by how penalties and bonuses are calculated. The old extreme repetition penalty pointed this out quite well.

    So while they are good xp for one run when over level enough to get it done fast, that may not be the case at level and doing it not so fast. Even with full bonuses, the xp seen at level is likely to be less than twice what you are seeing and the time needed likely to be significantly more than that.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    You're probably right. However, I find it a little odd that people will run the Dreaming Dark quests regularly for what I recollect to be about half of the potential XP you'd get in a single Amrath quest. Now granted, I know they are shorter, and there is Dreaming Dark flagging involved, but the quests do not offer a whole lot of XP overall. Ioun stones are sorta inconsequential (with a few notable exceptions), and the Mindsunder loot is really underwhelming nowadays. Yet those quests seem to be stacked three deep at times.

    Is it an XP / min thing, or are there other reasons? Could it be that they are just plain easy XP buy comparison?
    Mining for Ancient Secrets and Raiding the Giant's Vault are both easily 1k+ XP per minute, which is generally the standard for a high-speed expert leveling group. Look at MrCow's old Diaries of a True Reincarnate (Arcane: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-%28Arcane%29); Mining for Ancient Secrets was 5th highest XP/min in the game for him, and Raiding the Giant's Vault is just 100/min short of the top 10. None of the Amrath quests break 1k/min, though one (Sins) gets pretty close. But then the second best Amrath quest, A New Invasion, is worse than 5 more IQ/DD quests (Reclaiming Memories, Shipwrecked Spy, Dream Conspiracy, I Dream of Jeets, and Finding the Path).

    Part of it is the higher difficulty of Amrath quests (have fun Elite streaking them!), part of it is longer quests (like Genesis Point), part of it is randomness (A New Invasion, Bastion of Power) part of it is low base XP (Wrath of the Flame), part of it is how long it takes to get to the quests, part of it is teleporting devils everywhere. It's just... bleh.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I'd buy you a beer if you were local ;-)
    Well I WAS in North Cackalacky; I just moved 2 states further south a a month and a half ago.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Well I WAS in North Cackalacky; I just moved 2 states further south a a month and a half ago.
    Heh - I dodged a bullet then ;-)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  7. #47
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Is that on a first ever elite run? If so, the first time elite +80% more than makes up for the -75% for 5 levels over, then add in conquest, ransack, etc and it's not hard to believe the xp is pretty good. Run it again and see how disappointing things are. That good xp is something of an illusion made by how penalties and bonuses are calculated. The old extreme repetition penalty pointed this out quite well.
    I don't think it was my first run (the further I get away from this chronologically, the worse my memory becomes). I think I had at least 1 re-entry for some reason or the other. That's my hazy recollection.

    I also think half of the issue with me reporting this is that I didn't see the 19K (15K) XP awarded until I was at the end of finishing out. I wasn't running it for XP, but for favor, and then when I looked at the messages on the screen I was like, "Wow! 15K (19K) for that?" Then "ppof": I'm outside of the quest.

    For some reason 19K sticks in my head, and I'm more likely to believe that I got 19K off the quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    So while they are good xp for one run when over level enough to get it done fast, that may not be the case at level and doing it not so fast. Even with full bonuses, the xp seen at level is likely to be less than twice what you are seeing and the time needed likely to be significantly more than that.
    Well if I'm only taking something like a 766 XP hit in a quest for being over-level, I can see why people would not want to do it at-level. And I do know that at-level, Sins is nothing to sneeze at - it is a hard quest. However, I'm not a guy who likes to farm quests, and on a second life there is more than enough XP out there to level with. And I'd rather run a difficult quest once for loads of XP then have to re-run a vastly easier quest to farm stuff and squeeze out as much blood from that stone that I can. It is the same reason I generally don't like running Tangleroot because I'm basically re-running the same quest every frickin' time. Then again, that's my preference, and I know some people obviously live to farm. More power to them. But it appears that quick XP farming is sorta impacting the PUG scene.

  8. #48
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Ask and ye shall receive.

    Quest BASE level Maximum character level to get Bravery Minimum character level needed to BYPASS streak Maximum character level for 100% XP on Normal Maximum character level for 100% XP on Hard Maximum character level for 100% XP on Elite
    X = 1-17 X+2 X+3 X+1 X+2 X+3 (no bravery)
    18 20 21 19 20 22 (no bravery)
    19 21 22 20 22 (no bravery) 24 (no bravery)
    20 24 25 22 24 25 (no bravery)
    21 25 26 24 25 26 (no bravery)
    22 26 27 25 26 27 (no bravery)
    23 27 28 26 27 28 (no bravery)
    24 28 Can't 27 28 28
    25+ 28 Can't 28 28 28
    I don't think the bottom half of this chart is accurate under U19 Patch 1....

    I did some testing last week on my first toon that was 26, holding 28 and the rules seem to have changed for level 21 and up quests.

    At level 26, I was able to run Impossible Demands Epic Normal (level 21 quest without any penalties -- 25K per daily run).

    I then leveled to 27, and was still able to run Impossible demands Epic Normal without a penalty (still 25K per daily run).

    I then leveled to 28 and started getting a 75% penalty on Impossible Demands Epic Normal. (Unquiet Graves followed the same pattern).

    I'm not sure what the new rules are, but they definitely changed somewhere along the way.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    I don't think the bottom half of this chart is accurate under U19 Patch 1....

    I did some testing last week on my first toon that was 26, holding 28 and the rules seem to have changed for level 21 and up quests.

    At level 26, I was able to run Impossible Demands Epic Normal (level 21 quest without any penalties -- 25K per daily run).

    I then leveled to 27, and was still able to run Impossible demands Epic Normal without a penalty (still 25K per daily run).

    <snip>

    I'm not sure what the new rules are, but they definitely changed somewhere along the way.
    Interesting. I'll haven't tested lately, because I mostly levelled from 25-28 on the new content, and now am XP-capped.

    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    I then leveled to 28 and started getting a 75% penalty on Impossible Demands Epic Normal.
    And that really is odd too...because -75% on a level-21-quest-on-Normal for a level-28-character is exactly what you'd expect if nothing had changed. It's your anomaly is ONLY for levels 26 and 27.

  10. #50

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    Just for a datapoint, I was surprised to find that my level 25 wizard (currently farming fate points in off destinies) gets no overlevel penalty at all on the following quests on EN:

    Snitch
    Bargain of Blood
    Fathom the Depths
    Claw of Vulkoor
    VON3
    Offering of Blood
    Impossible Demands
    Rusted Blades
    Devil Assault

    And yes, that's my daily rotation to get these damned fate points finished out as quickly and painlessly as possible.

  11. #51
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Interesting. I'll haven't tested lately, because I mostly levelled from 25-28 on the new content, and now am XP-capped.



    And that really is odd too...because -75% on a level-21-quest-on-Normal for a level-28-character is exactly what you'd expect if nothing had changed. It's your anomaly is ONLY for levels 26 and 27.
    And 25, where you would expect a 10% penalty.

  12. #52
    Community Member wildbynature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Re-read post.

    I’m running maybe 5 levels over the quest level? I’m still pulling anywhere from 10 – 15K XP without BB and all of these XP boosters?

    Granted I’m not one of those people who looks at this stuff really closely, but just casual observation tells me that maybe the base XP is not what everyone assumes it is?

    And I’ve been in a few of those zerg groups on a few of those Amrath quests. I would dispute that it takes zergers an hour to run them. Maybe New Invasion (which the end fight sucks eggs), but I’ve seen those run in way less than an hour, with the right people.
    And you are using the same people in this to run Amrath quests. I’ve been in my fair share of Coal quests with one or more people who don’t know the run real well, and you get people who are lost. Easily an hour to hour-and-a-half run. Loads of XP though, but they are long for even the above-average group to run.
    Two words: Yugo Pots. And those are VERY relevant while leveling if I recall correctly.
    Ok, so here's the math:
    you're running the quest 5 levels over (-75%)
    You're completing for the first time on elite (+80%)
    VIP bonus (+10%)
    Most people at least get aggression (+10%)
    Most people get between 8 and 10% in breakables not trying
    Voice (5%)
    ship buff (5%)

    Without traps, or secret doors, you're already at +43-+45%
    That's an average. It's pretty easy to have a net gain of 65% xp for your first time at that level.

    If we take your high estimate of 15k and my high estimate of 65%, then you're looking at about 9k for the base xp. A new invasion is worth a little over 9k base xp on elite. The values I gave you earlier weren't speculation. They were taken Off the wiki. That is the only quest with halfway decent xp, too. The base xp for schemes of the enemy is 4420.

    And yugo pots only give you +2 to a single stat. I have a stack of 100 still sitting in my TR bank because they just don't make much of a difference anymore. I can get an additional +1 to a spell DC (which is nice) but if my spells are landing without it, what's the point? This was useful when +2 tomes were common and +3s were much more rare then they are today.
    --Pealea, Peawee, worldpeas, givepeas achance, and whoopea on Khyber

  13. #53

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    Also daily bonus, and maybe throw in a greater tome of learning.

    Squish, you may not be aware of this but while leveling through heroics you can get solid xp from running quests overlevel even with a -99% penalty. This is because all the bonuses apply to the base amount, not the modified base amount:

    +25% conquest
    +15% ransack
    +10% flawless
    +10% persistance
    +20% greater tome
    +20% daily
    ------
    +100%

    And if you had never run the quest on elite before, then your +80% bonus means you actually got more out of the quest than someone at-level would get from it on their second run of the same difficulty. "Bad xp" means "not worth running a second time." Pretty much everything (except Coyle, and a handful of others) is worth running once.

  14. #54
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Two words: Yugo Pots. And those are VERY relevant while leveling if I recall correctly.
    I've never used a Yugo pot in my 3 years of playing and am on my 10th life for my main. Are they really necessary?

    At this point, I kind of roll through heroic content anyways.

    To speak to your larger point: with great groups, I've seen Shavarath stuff go quickly and produce great xp. With mediocre groups, it's painful. With players who know the quests about as poorly as I do, we're kind of just hopeless. I just don't run them enough to know them - usually avoid them, especially now with all the new quests. Last time I finished off my 20th in Evenstar.

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