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  1. #61
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Chaotic Evil Cleric, everything must be dead by the end of the dungeon including party members. I like it.
    The first line in my cleric's bio is "Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make."

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    but the ranger...self-healers are very strong right now
    Though that won't be lasting long.

    The Ranger Class is losing it's primary benefit (to me) at this point with the incoming nerf.
    Last edited by Archangel_666; 09-16-2013 at 02:13 PM.

  3. #63
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Hello, i play DDO as first "life", and i often see Healer join group but not healing in quest. Since i cant afford very expensive potions (and it takes a lot time to get hp back up when i play as Barbarian), what is reason behind this? Wouldnt group do quest much more smoothly if healers actually heal? Seriously even hireling healer usually much more reliable as healer, but he tends to die often so people ask for no hireling. What the point of healer 100% time ignoring healing his fellow mates?
    Sometimes its age, bitterness, not wanting to be a heal bot, come from a game like wow/rift/aeon, some also could be new. there are tons of reasons why someone might not heal. they might not be good as healers either. i cant speak for everyone, but i knew some are tired of pugs telling them what to do or not listening to them. if a barb fails to get heal amp what is the point.

    all i can say is do what you can to heal yourself and just stay near the cleric or the group. Sometimes other people are willing to throw you heals if you take time to heal yourself as well. I'm less likely to heal someone who doesn't want to use pots or help mitigate the damage they take. hope that helps.

  4. #64
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Learn to level faster. Stopping to get traps in the majority of quests equals a net loss in xp/min. You are actually hurting yourself by doing it.
    This is a great post and just had to quote it. Obviously this is someone who solos only because he would think otherwise if he has ever been in a zerg Tear for example. Also, would know that there is no "hurting yourself" if the group is capable of moving forward while the trapper stays back for traps and with the new quickened search, they don't even fall that far behind anymore.

  5. #65
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Healers healing and Barbarian do dps is more smooth and better for group? Or when then barbarian heals group and healer does full damage? I think first variant is better.
    Well, you're right OP.
    I have 5 healers. A WF FVS, a human FVS, a Cleric, a Cleric/Monk and a Bard. The bard is SpellSinger and he heals pretty well too. Sometimes I go killing stuff, sometimes I just sit back and heal. Note that I've said I got 5 "healers", thats how I see my divine characters. But some people make their builds with soloing in mind and sometimes they PUG. All my healers were rolled with the purpose of healing as we were having some healer shortage on my server a couple years ago.

    I don't know what server you play, but in Ghallanda I've never come across a "healer" that wouldn't heal. Some were sloppy, some were trying to teach other players a lesson, but all of them healed the party.
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  6. #66
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The first line in my cleric's bio is "Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make."
    Priceless...

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Chaotic Evil Cleric, everything must be dead by the end of the dungeon including party members. I like it.
    I want my favoritest pnp toon back: gimmy my evil Necro Cleric with Turn Living!
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  7. #67
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinusWyllt View Post
    ...

    Cleric, though, I recommend cleric first. Once you learn to do it right you won't be costing yourself tons of plat in scrolls.

    You can go through the phases...no idea where that thread went...but can start as a healbot/nannybot and check it out. You'll then know the advantages and limitations of playing that way.

    Alternatively...

    Find/form a static group.
    Find/form a guild based on "traditional MMO roles"

    ...

    I skipped a couple pages, but not much better advice than this. ^^
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  8. #68
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Hello, i play DDO as first "life", and i often see Healer join group but not healing in quest. Since i cant afford very expensive potions (and it takes a lot time to get hp back up when i play as Barbarian), what is reason behind this? Wouldnt group do quest much more smoothly if healers actually heal? Seriously even hireling healer usually much more reliable as healer, but he tends to die often so people ask for no hireling. What the point of healer 100% time ignoring healing his fellow mates?
    Everyone has pretty much summed it up, but I would like to say welcome to a relatively new player. DDO's current game balance may be different from what you're used to in other games. I would hope you don't get turned off by this as after you have mastered it, it can be rewarding and well... we need the players. The barbarian class may be a bit much to chew off in the current game climate because, as you've noted, that class really needs a lot of healing attention to survive with new players and its rather expensive to do through pots, learning to manage bots can be a chore, and most of the people playing these days are less likely to heal as a result of the dominance of a self-sufficiency paradigm in the game. So you may either want to consider a new class, or finding a static group that works from the class role paradigm rather than the DDO paradigm.

    Also, to note, most healing capable classes who don't throw the occassional spot heal to a party member are doing 1 of 2 things. 1) Not playing the game well because helping out the player who gets in the occassional spot of trouble is beneficial to the rest of the group -or- 2) waiting for you to turn into a soul-stone because you're combat effectiveness is much lower than the combat effectiveness of the spell points needed to keep you alive. I call it triage and practice it from time to time. Its a bit blunt to put it like that, but its the case honestly.
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  9. #69
    Community Member wildbynature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    There could be a lot of reasons. Let me list a few:
    -could be you were out of range
    -could be you were around a corner
    -could be they didn't like you
    -could be they thought you were rude and were passive-aggressively punishing you
    -could be they are bad at healing
    -could be they don't like healing, but do like the other things that class that can cast healing spells can do
    -could be they were lazy
    -could be they were not paying attention to your red bar
    -could be they like watching people struggle to learn self sufficiency
    -could be they were having a private chat with someone and was too busy typing to heal you
    -could be they forgot to actually take the healing spells
    -could be their build was not set up to take advantage of the healing potential and their focus was elsewhere
    -could be they just didn't care if anyone else survived the quest

    Could be many many other reasons too. Maybe you should ask the person who wasn't healing you? Communication can solve lots of things, and when someone says something like, "Hey would you mind tossing me a heal please?" generally, even if the guy with the cleric/fvs icon doesn't someone in the party will probably be able to help you out.

    I agree with all but the last one. I'm going to assume you're new and not just a troll, but there are times when someone playing a divine class may think you're not "worth the spell points." People who play divines have to be very conscious of their resources. If the problem is that you're new and haven't learned how to manage agro yet, try letting the divine know that you're new. Ask them what you can do to mitigate how much damage is coming in. Asking for heals nicely is one thing, but there's nothing more annoying than a barbarian with negative or no healing amp squealing into the mic as their red bar quickly decreases.

    Are you level 10 or below? Most divine classes don't get their good healing spells till level 11. They can't heal very well until after level 11. The big thing is to make yourself healable and welcoming of criticism. The thing is, most newer players think they're healable when they're actually not. If you're having this problem with every divine you run into, you're probably part of the problem.
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  10. #70
    The Hatchery Hoglum's Avatar
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    Grab some charisma. Max out a skill called "diplomacy". Put on some gear that adds to this skill.

    When you go into a dungeon, zerg forth and **** a bunch of monsters off. Run back to the healer.

    Hit the diplomacy skill.

    Proceed to kill the monsters. The healer will be busy healing while you do what Barbarians do best. :-)

  11. #71
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Well this is way im playing my fvs:

    Heroic 1-20
    Norm and Hards - sometimes when I see rlly bad and new player who is trying to survive I heal them. But mobs are not even hitting hard in these and most players self heal thro it pretty well and quickly. And overall - its faster if I kill all mobs than if I bothered to let those bad players who die on norm kill stuff and heal them.
    Elite - I throw heal from time to time while figting to classes with no healing spells - when I see theyre dying. I mean - I understand they can not have scroll % enough yet, and can not have silver flame packs/favor. Its ok.

    Epic
    Norm- Not throwing heals almost at all. I mean - its EPIC. They should have or silver flame pots OR scrolls and umd OR at least cocoon. To be honest on norm they should be able to do quest without even healing themselves more than twice :P.
    Hard - Will throw a heal sometimes when someones in need - on hards I also focus on dps and fighting
    Elite - Im usually in full healer mode - only dpsng when I have free time between healing. BUT if someones health is dropping 100% faster than others and is eating all my mana - well he obiously is not a tank and should not play as one - so I usually let them die and then instantly res hoping theyll learn to not agro when they cant survive it.
    Raids - Healer mode also + fighting between healing.

    And I think its pretty good setup.
    But even in healing mode - I think players should be able to self heal if I
    - blink
    - am healing someone else and cant do both
    - out of my reach


    And certainly reasons like:
    - I dont like the person
    - I think person is treating me like a personal babysitter
    - Im giving them silent treatment hoping itll work
    are true xD. Totally true. People can be stupid even not for healers. I remember while playing my rogue someone was like:
    " hurry up trapper, im not gonna wait all day till you do these. do your job faster". Like *** :P. I cant search faster :P.


    But truth is kmany divines does not heal. Why? Its pretty difficult to heal others on quests when they are loosing hp like crazy AND dps. And to be honest - I think divines are more effecive in healing in 10-20 content than most melees. BB, cometfall and instankills :P And on heroic there are hardly places when u miss mana. But to be fair on lvls 1-10 if divine is not melee - they can do practically nothing. I mean they can - but its so boring an slow :/
    Last edited by Kayla93; 09-16-2013 at 04:09 PM.

  12. #72
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Learn to level faster. Stopping to get traps in the majority of quests equals a net loss in xp/min. You are actually hurting yourself by doing it.
    So doing faster is doing it better? That's not what she said...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  13. #73
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    First I will recommend stop referring to them as "Healer"
    THIS.
    And to add to this- The Divines who refer themselves as Primarily healers contribute to this bad thought process. Those guys should really just change their class to Baby-Sitter.
    In fact, that could be in the OP's LFM- "Can't Take Care of Self, Sitter Needed".


    (Granted, when I played my clerics- I gave out plenty of heals, but some mindsets were just plain bad- as in Drink your own potions and Hfeal us- bad)

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Most of healers
    As I'm sure someone has pointed out, there is no "Healer" class. There are Divine Casters who have access to healing spells. Stop expecting them to baby site you. But, if, as you say, you experience this lack of healing a lot, I'm going to assume it's a combination of two things:

    1. They actually are healing but you're an unreliable narrator.
    2. They dont' like you. Probably because you expect them to babysit you.

    Time to learn how to be self-sufficient it sounds like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I don't get going divine for self-healing melee
    Luckily, it doesn't really matter if you get it or not, now does it? Nope, sure doesn't.

  15. #75
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    The Divines who refer themselves as Primarily healers contribute to this bad thought process. Those guys should really just change their class to Baby-Sitter.
    So making a Cleric that can decimate the baddies and heal the party was a bad thing? Naming it "Myhealer" was a mistake? People who don't conform to your expectation of how they should play are doing it wrong? Yup, same tired old tripe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    In fact, that could be in the OP's LFM- "Can't Take Care of Self, Sitter Needed".
    Yes, a new player comes to the game and reads the description of Barbarian and thinks "wow, this sounds like a beast, I wanna play that!" Foolishly thinking that those who can heal would. What's worse, they didn't take the time to study all the related wiki and forum articles, but instead just made a character and started to play... Bad newbie, bad! Shame on you for thinking those with healing spells would use them on those without. Shame on you for not doing lots of homework and studying on how to build your toon with all the gear you have not yet had a chance earn! Barbarians aren't for newbs, didn't you see the warning? Oh, and guild CSW pots are both cheep and more effective than the cure lights you're going to loot starting out... Um, before going on any quests, you did join a guild and farm a bunch of plat, right?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I don't get going divine for self-healing melee, there are just better options. It's not worth the DPS loss for the over-kill self-healing that is a cleric/FvS.

    Though honestly I don't think a pally can out-DPS a splashed battle-cleric at this point, but the ranger or artificer self-healers are very strong right now as are the multitude of splash-builds with cocoon + UMD.

    I don't mind healing on my divine or bard, but I get very annoyed when people bring toons into EE with no healing amp at all. That's just pathetic.

    Thing is you still need healers in SOME raids and divines are best at this role. They gotta get to cap somehow.
    A battle divine is what you get when it's time for a fvs life... and also time to get through LD.

  17. #77
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Healer Lag
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  18. #78
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    So making a Cleric that can decimate the baddies and heal the party was a bad thing? Naming it "Myhealer" was a mistake? People who don't conform to your expectation of how they should play are doing it wrong? Yup, same tired old tripe.

    Yes, a new player comes to the game and reads the description of Barbarian and thinks "wow, this sounds like a beast, I wanna play that!" Foolishly thinking that those who can heal would. What's worse, they didn't take the time to study all the related wiki and forum articles, but instead just made a character and started to play... Bad newbie, bad! Shame on you for thinking those with healing spells would use them on those without. Shame on you for not doing lots of homework and studying on how to build your toon with all the gear you have not yet had a chance earn! Barbarians aren't for newbs, didn't you see the warning? Oh, and guild CSW pots are both cheep and more effective than the cure lights you're going to loot starting out... Um, before going on any quests, you did join a guild and farm a bunch of plat, right?
    For my part everytime this subject comes up I always say that the difficulty description on any class that doesn't have native heals somehow needs to be changed to challenging rather than the way it is now where spell casters are listed as challenging.

  19. #79
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    For my part everytime this subject comes up I always say that the difficulty description on any class that doesn't have native heals somehow needs to be changed to challenging rather than the way it is now where spell casters are listed as challenging.
    Considering that those "challenge ratings" are for the new players, I think casters as "challenging" makes sense. Properly pairing spells to mobs takes some learning, spell components, tactics beyond hack n' slash, knowing what to cast vs what to scroll/wand... Casters are IMO much more challenging than "max dps, max HP & charge!"
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  20. #80

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