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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Neverwinter's launch and massive flop probably means there won't be another shot at a D&D MMO for at least another 8 years if ever. It also reinvigorates Hasboro's interest in DDO as the D&D brand's presence in online gaming.
    Neverwinter isn't a flop. They are making cash, and a lot of it. I am not sure it played very well to the current DDO playerbase, but there are a lot of former DDOers that play Neverwinter.

    8 years is a bit much. I truly think it will be Turbine that blinks first... and when it does... we may see what's on the horizon for the next D&D project.


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  2. #62
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Not true. As a moderator for NWO forums I can tell you that these companies DO give you room to voice your own opinion. As long as you do so in a way that is fair, and not braking their own rules of conduct, your opinions, are airable. Now when its a touchy subject, or one that has the chance to explode, thats a different story. However mods are well versed in communication, and know how to word things. Also, they have tools at their disposal to clean a message if trolls decide to well... be themselves
    Not as much as you may think. There is nothing Cord or Tolo could say really at this point, Rowan has been talking a bit and discussing the direction of the game, and his vision is for the next year, so we can see that course for the game and it's development is charted for at least that long.

    Anyway, what would they say? "We have stuff planned" I can't speak for anyone else, but I get the distinct feeling that the entire team is running on Plan B (if you know what that means)

  3. #63
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    A sequel doesn't make any sense at all for an MMO, unless it's a massive graphics/engine overhaul like Runescape Classic to Runescape, or if you're just making a new game but want to keep the same IP, like Everquest to Everquest Next.

    Otherwise, it would just fragment the userbase, and for an MMO with as small a userbase as DDO it would just be a death sentence. Same reason they wouldn't make a "2009" server or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Perhaps we can get Cordovan and/or Tolero to jump in on the fun. Even if its nothing official.. it would be great to get some "unofficial" feedback... Even though Turbine has moved to the award winning Havok engine over a year ago, the graphics themselves will look quite dated in 2016. This beckons the thought if a new DDO could be on the horizon...
    Havok is a physics engine, not a graphics engine.

  4. #64
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Neverwinter isn't a flop. They are making cash, and a lot of it. I am not sure it played very well to the current DDO playerbase, but there are a lot of former DDOers that play Neverwinter.
    I have no doubt that a lot of DDO players play Neverwinter, I used to play Neverwinter as well. As far as an MMO goes, it's a fine MMO, the graphics were meh to be honest, I needed to get a texture smoother to make them palatable, unlike the smooth lines of DDO, GWII, and Aion (the other games I have played this year)

    But when you consider that it is F2P and just hit 2 million accounts, and GWII is 60 bucks for a box, and hit 3 million accounts, I have to wonder how many of those NWO accounts are returning investment. I know I personally did not spend any money on Neverwinter because it fell to the pitfall that most other DnD based computer games fall into, and that is they built a generic game, and then lavished it with a DnD backdrop to attract the fandom to play it. That is the biggest problem with NWO, is that I feel like I am playing an MMO like AION as opposed to having that feeling of playing a game of DnD online.

    Sadly, your question does bring up the point that maybe DDO is going down that path as well, and losing ties with what made it a game of DnD.

    I guess only time will tell, as for dying, or going away, I hate to say it, but Neverwnter looks more lined up to be a flash in the Pan MMO then DDO ever did.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Neverwinter isn't a flop. They are making cash, and a lot of it. I am not sure it played very well to the current DDO playerbase, but there are a lot of former DDOers that play Neverwinter.

    8 years is a bit much. I truly think it will be Turbine that blinks first... and when it does... we may see what's on the horizon for the next D&D project.
    2 million players, or accounts?

    Because I made an account, tried the game, thought it was garbage and left.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Even if you don't think so IT IS DDO2. Namely a MMO based on an edition of Dungeons and Dragons that came after DDO. You can argue all you want the facts are unavoidable.


    This is just a silly comment. DDO & Neverwinter are two entirely different games that satisfy players looking for an entirely different experience. Neverwinter is about more streamlined characters and combat mechanics that can play in far more adventures than in DDO, whereas DDO is far more customizable characters and advanced combat playing far fewer adventures. Just reading the TV Guide doesnt tell you how good a program is. Sometimes you just gotta watch the program. No idea how you come up with NWO = DDO 2. Different animal, entirely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    To use another metaphor : now people are consumers... they don't want to wait on things.
    In rock climbing that means that the teens I manage whine when they have to walk half an hour before they reach the rocks and start climbing.
    They want to start climbing right out of the car.
    In alpinism we have the new generation that goes up to the summit running, without any equipment nor bag... and then needs to be rescued when the weather changes and they don't have anything warm nor waterproof.

    In Online Gaming that means that everybody just rush where things happens : at what is called End Game. Even if said End Game is just empty or involves only PvP.

    Try to get a group of teens to play a PnP game and come back in a year to tell us how many kept playing beyond the first session.
    Again a poor comparison. The MeNow gen doesn't play for very long, they play for ~2 weeks and they are GONE. So why build a game for them? Look at the most successful games.. Everquest, WoW, Ultima Online. Now, dont tell me that these are old school games so they dont count... I'll bet you all three have larger playerbases than DDO does currently, still to this day. Depth and re-playability count.

    Now there is plenty of money to be made in F2P, no question, but I believe as soon as devs stop getting greedy and building for the MeNow gen and just build a damned good game that has insane replay value... in other words get back to the basics, this f2p mmo genre will begin to move forward again.

    Screw the end game, companies want you to get their fast so they can sell you shinies in the cash shop at top dollar before you leave. I say keep your player base playing, build loyalty, lower the dang prices, and the f2p mmo market will move forward.

    I DO agree with you about PnP and today's teen. Instruction MANUALS - are you freikin' kidding me?? If its not a 1 page pdf most teenagers havent the know-how or want to learn... sad as it is. You know what though, screw em. If you make the game good, and provide things they do like, such as great graphics and awesome combat, they can learn, and I believe many of them WILL try it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    DDO is still a bastardization of D&D. It has always been and will always be.
    The D&D system is not compatible with online gaming without being bastardized. Otherwise the game would have crashed long ago.
    DDO is not an emulation. And if you hated it so much YOU wouldnt have been playing and paying for as long as you have. How long have you been playing??

    As long as you can build it, and do some of the math in your head as you play.. and it's close, people will connect the dots and have a great time. DDO in the beginning was amazingly close for me, and I have played PnP since the mid 70s and every official D&D RPG ever made.

    That said, some of the recent changes made in DDO are terrible. They should have never explored the Zinga-like BS and screwing the ViPs by selling what was once part of the deal. For example, content and classes/races should have been free to ViPs. These summertime $50-$80plus bundles are expensive for some that don't have a flexible budget.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    DDO is not the closest to any D&D Ruleset. NWO is almost an exact transfer of 4th Edition in a MMO. There's less differences between 4th Ed and NOW that there was between 3.5 and DDO at the start of DDO
    NWO is not almost an exact transfer of 4th edition, and was never meant to be. It gets the art design and lore down, but takes major license (pun purely accidental) with character creation, simplifying and streamlining the process to allow more access to those who aren't seasoned pen and paper D&D character builders. It was a developer decision I could certainly understand.[/QUOTE]

    ( Yeah I placed it )

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Honestly if you want a PnP ruleset that doesn't unravel at high level D&D is not the one to use... Rolemaster would be more efficient and would need less adaptations than D&D.
    D&D or Die. That's been my philosophy for the past 10 years or so. It's either the real deal or it isn't.


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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Same thing!

    I pimped my Commodore 64 (kicked Radio Shack Color computer A$$!) out with an Indus GT disk drive and played all the SSI Gold Box games... Pool of Radiance, Dark Queen of Krynn, Curse of Asure Bonds... then upgraded to a Commodore Amiga (coolest kid on the block... come on now... nothing beat an Amiga - with Newtek video toaster - in 1988!)
    Amiga was the bomb I even worked on them making hard drives including one for Amiga World Magazine a 1 gig drive which was huge back then my boss even gave me a video toaster as a bonus(the ex took that)

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  8. #68
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    ...As long as you can build it, and do some of the math in your head as you play.. and it's close, people will connect the dots and have a great time. DDO in the beginning was amazingly close for me, and I have played PnP since the mid 70s and every official D&D RPG ever made.

    That said, some of the recent changes made in DDO are terrible. They should have never explored the Zinga-like BS and screwing the ViPs by selling what was once part of the deal. For example, content and classes/races should have been free to ViPs. These summertime $50-$80plus bundles are expensive for some that don't have a flexible budget....
    That said, do you wish to admit to me NOW that what we got into such a flame war about (I believe it was right after halloween in the year 1Maban) actually came TRUE?!?!?

    You and some of the others dismissed some of us doomsayers' predictions on where this game was going. On our behalf - You're Welcome.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by fco-karatekid View Post
    That said, do you wish to admit to me NOW that what we got into such a flame war about (I believe it was right after halloween in the year 1Maban) actually came TRUE?!?!?

    You and some of the others dismissed some of us doomsayers' predictions on where this game was going. On our behalf - You're Welcome.
    Not at all. To me it was never about Neverwinter vs. DDO, and it never should have been. We discussed what our plan was going to be early on because I was part of the alpha team. From the very beginning, which for us was February 2012, we decided to expand knowing full well Neverwinter would make a cool addition to our DDO guildies, not in any way shape or form a replacement for DDO. Truthfully, our DDO guildies didn't like it much, so I knew DDO playerbase wasn't going to dig it en masse.

    Personally I am thrilled we went to Neverwinter to expand Tyrs Paladium out and we found us a new set of awesome guildies, so I considered it time well spent. I was hoping they would make choices that would expand depth of character creation and slow down the leveling. We never did get that, but they did give us quite a bit of what we did ask for, which made it a better game. Had they gone the route of building a more in depth statistical based, customizable NWO, with much deeper class/combat features, then the DDO audience would have flocked over. It's a good game - it just doesnt offer the DDO gamer much (we ARE in our seventh year after all).

    In the end however, we have plenty of awesome guildies that like the game... and that's all that matters to me. If they are happy, I am happy. I think in time its going to be a better game, especially as more classes and content gets added.


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  10. #70
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Not at all. To me it was never about Neverwinter vs. DDO, and it never should have been. We discussed what our plan was going to be early on because I was part of the alpha team. From the very beginning, which for us was February 2012, we decided to expand knowing full well Neverwinter would make a cool addition to our DDO guildies, not in any way shape or form a replacement for DDO. Truthfully, our DDO guildies didn't like it much, so I knew DDO playerbase wasn't going to dig it en masse.

    Personally I am thrilled we went to Neverwinter to expand Tyrs Paladium out and we found us a new set of awesome guildies, so I considered it time well spent. I was hoping they would make choices that would expand depth of character creation and slow down the leveling. We never did get that, but they did give us quite a bit of what we did ask for, which made it a better game. Had they gone the route of building a more in depth statistical based, customizable NWO, with much deeper class/combat features, then the DDO audience would have flocked over. It's a good game - it just doesnt offer the DDO gamer much (we ARE in our seventh year after all).

    In the end however, we have plenty of awesome guildies that like the game... and that's all that matters to me. If they are happy, I am happy. I think in time its going to be a better game, especially as more classes and content gets added.
    no, no - way before that... the deterioration of THIS game is what i was referring to. Damn shame too - it had such potential.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by fco-karatekid View Post
    no, no - way before that... the deterioration of THIS game is what i was referring to. Damn shame too - it had such potential.
    Ohhhhh, that's an entirely different story. I don't feel doom yet, I just don't, sorry.

    I have been saying that some major decisions by Turbine have sucked wind for the past two years... for example charging what they have for the paid expansions is a rough ride for ViPs - many having spent over a thousand already on installment payments for the game. I believe ViPs should have gotten them for free (I did - I waited and just got it after it launched for turbine points so I spent ZERO extra dollars.) I also think they should have gone after new blood more aggressively for example they should have opened up free to play more... Imagine if new players could try all the content for free for 30 days. That would be a great way to get new blood flowing again. It's the f2p model thats keeping people away from DDO at this point. I learned that when I spoke to hundreds of NWO peeps that had nothing in common with each other. The f2p model scares them away.

    That said, DDO isnt dead. It's easy to talk **** on reddit and poser DDO sites and say that DDO sucks, but I still love DDO, faults and all.


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  12. #72
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    Having played NWO for the past 35 days I will say it has its good points and it's bad, but it is definitely NOT in any way as good as DDO in providing the D&D experience. Good points include the mounts and the quest generator. The qg is one of the reasons I continue to play it, as it adds the randomness of experiences the mainline game lacks, making it less of a grind. I find their PVP far more fair than in any other MMO game platform I have played.

    I would like to point out as well that in the past couple of years Turbine has been Warner Bros. and thus not specifically the same Turbine that started DDO, since they have to report to WB for any changes/direction they make.

    While DDO might have started and still contains some semblance to the 3.0/3.5 content, much of the recent changes (epic destinies/levels) are a product of the 4.0 game and not greatly to my liking.

    It is reported that the 5.0 D&D will fall back to rules from the previous versions inc. AD&D, 2.0 and 3.0/3.5...we'll see how that goes...it certainly needs something.

    As to the level cap (4.0 is level 30, sound familiar?) I honestly see no reason why there can't continue to be increasing levels even higher so long as the content reflects the increase...such as quests that take you into the planes and even to other spheres, meeting and fighting the divine entities and high level outsiders...there is a great lot of content that can be explored that I would say is going to waste.
    Last edited by Archemancer; 09-18-2013 at 05:29 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    For an "industry expert" which you may very well be... you assume an awful lot. You also assume that only current mmo players who happen to have played D&D are the only "demographic". Many more people than you think have a D&D background.

    Any well designed mmo with depth and re-playability has a shot in this economy - none the less one with as legendary, and marketable IP such as Dungeons & Dragons. If someone builds a "new shiny" D&D mmo that allows impressive, authentic customization it would draw successfully from many in the mmo market. DDO1 as you call it is the most authentic D&D product on the market in my opinion (sure, its still a stretch but any mmo will be a strectch - after all the rulesets are designed to be played on top of a table, not on the PC) Still, I truly believe Turbine proved they could build an authentic D&D based mmo built around an already established set of rules. Perfect World/Cryptic proved that NWO - without a doubt pulled in many non-D&D pnpers, disqualifying your argument.

    I know what you are saying, but it does not hold true with an IP that is a household name such as Dungeons & Dragons. Sure, they'll milk DDO for all it's worth... but some, somewhere WILL jump on the next official D&D mmo project, if they haven't already.
    I make a good living at bringing people's grand plans down to earthly reality, so yes, in many respects I'm an expert.

    What some other company does is not the subject of the OP. The economics affecting a business that doesn't have a D&D MMO with an existing playerbase already aren't the same as what Turbine's internal economics are.

    For Turbine management to green light a new DDO2 you've got to meet two basic criteria: You get ROI on your capital, and you make more money long term than you would just keeping what you have updated. Remember, they already have a product that, let's say for the sake of argument, is already making money.

    How much capital would you need to greenfield a DDO2? I'm going to suggest a lot, because if we know one thing from update bugfests, DDOs code is not highly modular or loosely coupled. Every update manages to break elements of the game that are as far removed from the update as New York is from Los Angeles. That suggests there's very little infrastucture a decent development team, and we can put aside a discussion on whether Turbine has one, would keep in place in a DDO2. So, if reuse is off the table, project costs go up.

    What do you do with DDO? You think long time paying players are going to be happy if you put them out to pasture? They're going to demand to transition or take their toons and go home. So now you've got to come up with a transition plan. Have you ever transitioned tons of data between two disimilar software products (where frankly one is vaporware at the moment)? It's an expensive and mind-numbing series of nearly endless analysis tasks (and let's not talk about meetings). As seen in other MMOs, players do get attached, and will still play an MMO for years after it's shine has passed. They really do take that persistent world part seriously. So again, projects costs go up further because you don't want to **** off your existing base that pays you (or they will leave early) while trying to expand your market.

    Where is the staff that's going to do a DDO2? Turbine, as best can be told from the outside, has a skeleton crew development staff for DDO. If they didn't there'd be a lot fewer bugs. If not that, then it's the most incompetent development staff I've seen in some time. I think it's the former, and that bugs, without adequate staffing, simply aren't being addressed out of time constraints. You're welcome to argue the latter, but either way, Turbine would need to "staff up" for a DDO2 push. Again, there go your costs, up up and away.

    Add in all the new hardware/software licensing costs/discussion/evaluations, more money just flowing out of Turbine. And you're incurring these costs before you've even seen a dime from the vaporware DDO2.

    Now, what is the upside for them?

    Potentially more customers you say. First, let's establish that not all MMO customers are the same. Pure F2Pers are going to be barely worth the resources they consume, so people that play it for free don't create accounting ROI (unless you're going to see ads for Hot Pockets inside of taverns and such). So where are your paying customers giong to come from?

    You're using anyone who ever picked up a d20 once in their lives as a potential customer (I think I played pnp twice). Fine, let's discuss what they're actually buying as per your ideal for DDO2 by Turbine. A complex, in depth MMO that will take deep thought to be good at, and some level of dedication to advance. Ok, how many people consume "deep thought" and "dedication" entertainment? Not many in the grand scheme of popular culture (a culture I do a good amount of business in). From experience, it's far easier to sell unicorns and keychains shaped like fruit and desserts, than things with complexity.

    You say a DDO2 can offer everyone their ideal MMO experience. Frankly impossible the way software development gets done. Software will skew either to complexity or simplicity, it virtually never does both. DDO skews towards complexity, virtually every other MMO (outside of Eve) skews to simplicity. DDO2 would pick one or the other. DDO fans like myself, only play because it skews towards complexity (even with the UI changes). I have zero interest in a simple experience, and wouldn't bother to even try a simple simon MMO (as I never bothered trying one before DDO, and the reaction to NWO forestalls me from bothering to try it).

    Now, here I'm just going to quote a market research firm from this month:

    FREE-TO-PLAY MMO

    The overall free-to-play MMO segment saw a slight contraction, with revenues with the total audience base settling around 46 million. Spending also proved sluggish with just over $36 per paying player.

    In August several of the major publishers declared their increasing focus on free-to-play as a revenue model. Most notably Sony’s announcement of the much-anticipated EverQuest Next. Activision’s The Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft beta was officially launched, providing further evidence that the company is experimenting with free-to-play monetization.

    PAY-TO-PLAY MMO

    The overall subscription-based category saw a 26% decline, year-over-year, dropping to $83 million in total sales in August. The overall audience base remained relatively steady, and conversion rates (for micro-transactions) climbed back up to 15% across the segment.

    After several months of dramatic decreases, World of Warcraft lost a combined total of roughly 200,000 subscribers in the Eastern and Western market. EVE Online, another long-term subscription-based MMO, fared better and broke 550,000 subscribers in August. Bucking the decline in the overall category, Bethesda announced that its Elder Scrolls Online will use a subscription model when it launches on PC, PS4 and Xbox One in 2014.
    You tell me where the new customers are hiding? Eventually, the MMO market will hit a maturity point, and at that point, it's a dog eat dog world, and it will come faster if the economy stays gimped. I think it may have well already hit maturity in the current economy. So, there ain't no new pie slices to be had, you've got to take someone else's pie now. How good is Turbine at doing that, you know, marketing, objectively speaking?

    And, there's more MMOs today than ever (the # doubled between 2011-2012, and even more now), given there's not a lot of barriers to entry, so now we're just slicing a stagnant customer base up even more finely. This is not a market where you launch based on customers that don't exist. You launch with the idea of stealing them from others. That's essentially what PW did with NWO (as Chai's said before, a near clone of other PW games under the covers). Slap some DnD art and lore on it, call it a day, and grab some of DDOs customer base and other MMO fans who want a simple experience and D&D lore. They just put different lipstick on the same PW pig if even half of the critiques are to be believed.

    What Turbine proved is they could, in the times of a peak financial bubble, build an MMO, nominally based on D&D, that captured enough fans of a complex game experience to be profitable, we assume. That doesn't prove anything now. The times, they have changed, or didn't the swing to F2P provide the clue to that?

    Lastly, there's nothing wrong with making assumptions. If you've ever pitched to investors or built a business, you'd know you make assumptions every day in the course of doing that. The problem isn't assumptions in and of themselves, it's the kind you make, conservative versus wildly optimistic, and what you base them on. I make conservative ones, rarely get proven wrong, and never fatally. People make wildly optimistic ones, and well, there's a reason 75% of all new businesses fail.

    Just as a personal aside, I have a friend who was way more a pnp guy than I ever was, and still a video gamer. Insists on wearing his old red D&D shirt when we have lunch on occasion (it's a hideous red color), and he's got exactly zero interest in MMOs, loosely D&D based or not. Why would he? He's got more than enough money to do whatever he wants, he's no need or personality type to commit to grinding on an MMO as he doesn't have that kind of competitive bent, even though he'd have no problem with the complexity. He's not constrained by budget, just time (not unlike myself). He chooses to spend his entertainment time elsewhere. I spend a majority of my free time in DDO (and I give up a lot time for a lot of other enterainment options to do so). Unfortunately for DDO, I am a relative rarity, while he, with an even better budget, but who broadly samples a huge range of entertainment choices lightly, is a vastly more common occurence. The entertainment paradox of choice, and its greater now than it has ever been, assures that something like DDO will always be niche.
    Last edited by myliftkk_v2; 09-18-2013 at 09:50 AM.

  14. #74
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    Ideally, when the licence is up, Turbine will release the server software + update history. Then we'll be able to host private servers running, say, only up to U9, for example, for our own small groups of friends.

    DDO2 would be a disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    DDO2 would be a disaster.
    And will never happen.

    There's no reason to make a new game, they can update the old one until it fails.

    There is no reason to throw away hundreds of good mission.

    This whole conversation is madness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Ideally, when the licence is up, Turbine will release the server software + update history. Then we'll be able to host private servers running, say, only up to U9, for example, for our own small groups of friends.

    DDO2 would be a disaster.
    Not sure why they would do it minus a license. But, if they were to do something radical, I'd suggest open sourcing the whole thing. That might actually get the bugs fixed, and the active combat system still seems to be the best around.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    And will never happen.

    There's no reason to make a new game, they can update the old one until it fails.

    There is no reason to throw away hundreds of good mission.

    This whole conversation is madness.
    Exactly, but look at how strong the Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare crowd is. The ability to host a legacy version of the game (patch 1.4 specifically), has kept the game running years after it "died".

  18. #78
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Not sure why they would do it minus a license. But, if they were to do something radical, I'd suggest open sourcing the whole thing. That might actually get the bugs fixed, and the active combat system still seems to be the best around.
    I'd like to see that, but since they don't own the DnD license, I don't foresee that happening. iD software (example) owned all of the doom and quake, etc intellectual property... that's what allows them to release their products the way they do.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Ideally, when the licence is up, Turbine will release the server software + update history. Then we'll be able to host private servers running, say, only up to U9, for example, for our own small groups of friends.
    I dont see that ever happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    DDO2 would be a disaster.
    You have no way of knowing that. Naturally, I dont see the current Turbine team being able to manage a successful DDO 2 project alone. However, a new project comes with new resources, new staff and a new plan... I can see the current devs playing a role in such a future project.


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  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Not sure why they would do it minus a license. But, if they were to do something radical, I'd suggest open sourcing the whole thing. That might actually get the bugs fixed, and the active combat system still seems to be the best around.
    It's not going to happen. WoTC would never allow it.


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