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  1. #1

    Post How long will DDO go, and will there ever be a DDO 2?

    For those of us that have played DDO for many years... there seems to be a common question in the back of our minds that has been sitting dormant since appx 2009.

    This has been brought up over the years, and back then I'd dismissed each as being way too early to pose the question. However, I'd love to get input as to what the mods and devs feel the future will hold for DDO beyond 2016, when supposedly the license ends. That feels like a good time for the development cycles to finally cease... but will Turbine's license get extended? How long DDO will continue in active development is anyone's guess.

    Perhaps we can get Cordovan and/or Tolero to jump in on the fun. Even if its nothing official.. it would be great to get some "unofficial" feedback... Even though Turbine has moved to the award winning Havok engine over a year ago, the graphics themselves will look quite dated in 2016. This beckons the thought if a new DDO could be on the horizon...

    Anyone want to take their best guess until the powers that be see this?

    Lets keep it clean folks... This is not a doom thread so please do not take it there... thanks.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-16-2013 at 06:17 AM.


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  2. #2
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Well seeing that despite all the doom and server dieng (and according to threads they die since 2008?) the game is still around and a level cap rise to 30 is announced I don't see a reason why it shouldn't run for some other years. They overhauled the engine to support DX11 a while ago and even Asheron's Call is still up, but creating a DDO2 with a new engine, new tools, new technology is probably more expensive then to upgrade DDO itself. Also what do you expect of DDO2 of being different then DDO?

    Take a look at Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 they not only changed the engine, the whole look and feel changed. The same goes for GuildWars 1 and 2 where characters increased in size, grouping and gameplay changed. However for DDO the underlying rules of D&D - even thou they have been adapted to fit a MMO - don't change that much that they couldn't be integrated into a update. Sure you can do much better and realistic looking environments with new technology as like as seen in Battlefield 4 and such. But despite new cool looks I don't see a reason for a DDO2, and honestly not the looks keep me still playing this game.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Well seeing that despite all the doom and server dieng (and according to threads they die since 2008?) the game is still around and a level cap rise to 30 is announced I don't see a reason why it shouldn't run for some other years. They overhauled the engine to support DX11 a while ago and even Asheron's Call is still up, but creating a DDO2 with a new engine, new tools, new technology is probably more expensive then to upgrade DDO itself. Also what do you expect of DDO2 of being different then DDO?

    Take a look at Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 they not only changed the engine, the whole look and feel changed. The same goes for GuildWars 1 and 2 where characters increased in size, grouping and gameplay changed. However for DDO the underlying rules of D&D - even thou they have been adapted to fit a MMO - don't change that much that they couldn't be integrated into a update. Sure you can do much better and realistic looking environments with new technology as like as seen in Battlefield 4 and such. But despite new cool looks I don't see a reason for a DDO2, and honestly not the looks keep me still playing this game.
    Yeah years ago I thought like you did. If AC can still survive, DDO can survive just as long. Hopefully there is working built into the license, or discussion is already underway between WoTC Turbine and Hasbro to continue the DDO brand. The fact they are making such drastic changes in the last few years (before 2016) may be a restructuring of the workforce and battleplan for the years to come beyond 2016.

    As far as we are in the know publicly (which frankly, isnt much), DDO production, or its very existence changes in 2016, unless wording is in the contract, or they expand or strike a new deal.


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  4. #4
    Community Member Limey's Avatar
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    It's likely there is no end date planned for DDO yet. Even if there was, there is no way they would come on here and tell you as it would simply be bad business due to people's reluctance to invest money and time into a sinking ship.

    They will continue with it as long as it is profitable.

  5. #5
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    For me the most important question would be..

    Do i want a DDO2 from Turbine?

    The changes over the last 2-3 years into the pay2win direction tell me...No


    And to Asheron's call...just because a game is still running doesn't mean it is still "alive"

    Anyone who played AC during its prime time around 2002-2004 knows how great it was...and how empty the servers were after 2006+....i dont call such a game "alive" (And i consider the AC system of no classes and totally free charakter development still the best of all mmos!!)

    The server Wayfinder for example has already such a feel like AC had in 2006...Ghost Town

    and yes they will run DDO as long as it makes profit, because there will always be some hardcore players, who will buy anything from the shop no matter how bad it is.
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  6. #6
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    DDO2 is already here, it's called NWO.

    And no way Hasbro is going to let a computer game be developed on an old version of D&D.
    So any DDOx would be 4th Ed, or 5th Ed if they ever release it.

    Last, it is also not a given that Turbine would be the company that designed that DDOx.
    Look at what happened to NWN : Bioware for the first one, Obsidian for the second one, Cryptic/PWE for the online version.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    DDO2 is already here, it's called NWO.
    LOL They had their shot at NWO, and I was looking forward to it, until I realized that NWO is basically any other PW game with D&D terms used for abilities and locations. Turbine could take a page from their crafting system though, but other than that, PW has a nice little set of clone games, and the MMO fanbase is very love/hate about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    And no way Hasbro is going to let a computer game be developed on an old version of D&D.
    So any DDOx would be 4th Ed, or 5th Ed if they ever release it.
    Their mistake. This is why the pathfinder MMO will grab all the old school D&D heads. It may not be the largest market by any means, but it is a very loyal market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Last, it is also not a given that Turbine would be the company that designed that DDOx.
    Look at what happened to NWN : Bioware for the first one, Obsidian for the second one, Cryptic/PWE for the online version.
    Yeap, WB/Hasbro are just working that license arent they. D&D is a popular name in the industry, and the name alone will attract people.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #8
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    I don't think DDO is going anyplace anytime soon. I mean, Asheron's Call is still around. Plus, Hasbro likes money and will likely renew the license if they feel profits can be made.

    Development may run dry, servers may merge, and the die-hard faithful may be all that remains... but I really doubt that DDO will shut down in the foreseeable.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Twidger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Their mistake. This is why the pathfinder MMO will grab all the old school D&D heads. It may not be the largest market by any means, but it is a very loyal market.
    Pathfinder's based on 3.x. Not sure I'd call its fans "old school." More like young whippersnappers. :P

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This is why the pathfinder MMO will grab all the old school D&D heads. It may not be the largest market by any means, but it is a very loyal market.
    I dont think so. In fact this is what we in Tyrs Paladium were planning for. The newest data out of the dev camp however is going to turn off a lot of old school D&D gamers/vets.


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  11. #11
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    LOL They had their shot at NWO, and I was looking forward to it, until I realized that NWO is basically any other PW game with D&D terms used for abilities and locations. Turbine could take a page from their crafting system though, but other than that, PW has a nice little set of clone games, and the MMO fanbase is very love/hate about them.



    Their mistake. This is why the pathfinder MMO will grab all the old school D&D heads. It may not be the largest market by any means, but it is a very loyal market.



    Yeap, WB/Hasbro are just working that license arent they. D&D is a popular name in the industry, and the name alone will attract people.
    Yes. Pathfinder is absolutely going to own the market after they start.

  12. #12
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This is why the pathfinder MMO will grab all the old school D&D heads. It may not be the largest market by any means, but it is a very loyal market.
    Last I heard, Pathfinder MMO has nothing to do with Pathfinder the PnP RPG's mechanics. And has a lot of PvP focus, which is definitely not in keeping with how D&D is usually played. And is an extremely overambitious pipedream that I doubt will come anywhere close to what's promised.

  13. #13
    Community Member Lorianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    DDO2 is already here, it's called NWO.
    Calling NWO anything related to D&D is like calling a butter knife Excalibur.

    I bite my thumb at NWO.

  14. #14
    Community Member Turbosilk's Avatar
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    Going F2P has been profitable for them. They wouldn't put any time and effort into expansions if they weren't making money. As long as they are making money DDO will be around. Everquest is still around. Ultima is still around.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    Calling NWO anything related to D&D is like calling a butter knife Excalibur.

    I bite my thumb at NWO.
    I have my issues with it myself. It is still a game with gorgeously generated graphic art and impressive D&D lore. It just doesnt have anywhere near the depth of DDO in the character creation/leveling and combat areas.

    Most in Tyrs Paladium DDO chapter that have tried Neverwinter have returned to DDO. That's ok though, we have an amazing playerbase of guildies there, many old school D&D players happy with a more casual game. However - depth of the player experience is felt in Neverwinter even with them. Its a new game, and many will be lost, its exactly what happened with DDO in year one. In a few years Neverwinter will be a better game, but it wont replace DDO for me or many others who prefer the depth that DDO provides.


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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    DDO2 is already here, it's called NWO.

    And no way Hasbro is going to let a computer game be developed on an old version of D&D.
    So any DDOx would be 4th Ed, or 5th Ed if they ever release it.

    Last, it is also not a given that Turbine would be the company that designed that DDOx.
    Look at what happened to NWN : Bioware for the first one, Obsidian for the second one, Cryptic/PWE for the online version.
    No. NWO is not DDO 2. They were simply going after another market with this particular title.

    A "DDO 2" does not have to promote a "5th edition". I feel there is a HUGE GAP in todays online gaming world for quality game production that does not include the Zynga/MeNow Generation 2 week gamer. Too many of these new MMOs is not about depth, but about a roadmaps with only one destination, the end game. No instruction needed, EZ play, get to the end game in two weeks or less!

    Its amazing in a way isnt it how karma work sometimes? In2005 DDO was looked at as a bastardization on D&D. An oversimplified piece of junk. Now its DDO thats the flag bearer. Many would argue the most depth, the best combat, the steepest learning curve, and the most flexible sub/f2p plans. Heck its still the closest to any set of D&D edition ruleset, scary isnt it!? Unfortunately the new Zinga like decisions they are making of late is ruining the nostalgic feel ofd D&D and dare I say DDO. If they continue on and DDO becomes "generic" it will be over for DDO. That's my honest feel.

    For DDO to remain important - it must remain niche.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-17-2013 at 06:03 AM.


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  17. #17
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    ...In2005 DDO was looked at as a bastardization on D&D. An oversimplified piece of junk. Now its DDO thats the flag bearer. Many would argue the most depth, the best combat, the steepest learning curve, and the most flexible sub/f2p plans. Heck its still the closest to any set of D&D edition ruleset, scary isnt it!?...
    Pall bearer is closer... if depth is grinding the same handful of quests for one of 8MM collectables only to have the collect|turn-in change on you regularly, sure.

    TL;DR for below - If there ever is a DDO2, it best be someone other than Turbine who creates it.

    Combat, I will give you.

    Learning curve I will give you; but that was because they tossed D20 out the window. It used to be relatively simple to intuit if you'd played DnD before; but now all the random odd mechanics make you think through an unintuitive meta that's by no means any fun to calculate. Granted, this is an old example that's gone, but the arbitrary addition of Epic Ward was one example... other poor mechanics followed. In addition to that, batsh*t crazy persistent bugs you have to BUILD AROUND have been here forever. Every class, every race has one or more "somethings" or "gotchas" you have to avoid. THESE are just a few things that make the learning curve hard - if it was just a balancing act, fine - but these are manufactured/accidental roadblocks that need not be there.

    Above somewhat addressed the DnD ruleset - it barely exists here. Not to mention the merging of DnD and MLP:FIM. An occasional cameo that tears down the 4th wall is cute... but seriously?!?!?

    This game was the only MMO to ever interest me (now on MMO #2 - GW2). Starting around Update 10, the lack of vision and direction started to grow. No, DDO should just die quickly (no ceremonies necessary) and the license for any sibling should go to a shop that has discipline and respect for the franchise.

  18. #18
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    No. NWO is not DDO 2. They were simply going after another market with this particular title.
    Even if you don't think so IT IS DDO2. Namely a MMO based on an edition of Dungeons and Dragons that came after DDO.

    You can argue all you want the facts are unavoidable.


    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    A "DDO 2" does not have to promote a "5th edition". I feel there is a HUGE GAP in todays online gaming world for quality game production that does not include the Zynga/MeNow Generation 2 week gamer. Too many of these new MMOs is not about depth, but about a roadmaps with only one destination, the end game. No instruction needed, EZ play, get to the end game in two weeks or less!
    To use another metaphor : now people are consumers... they don't want to wait on things.
    In rock climbing that means that the teens I manage whine when they have to walk half an hour before they reach the rocks and start climbing.
    They want to start climbing right out of the car.
    In alpinism we have the new generation that goes up to the summit running, without any equipment nor bag... and then needs to be rescued when the weather changes and they don't have anything warm nor waterproof.

    In Online Gaming that means that everybody just rush where things happens : at what is called End Game. Even if said End Game is just empty or involves only PvP.

    Try to get a group of teens to play a PnP game and come back in a year to tell us how many kept playing beyond the first session.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Its amazing in a way isnt it how karma work sometimes? In2005 DDO was looked at as a bastardization on D&D. An oversimplified piece of junk. Now its DDO thats the flag bearer. Many would argue the most depth, the best combat, the steepest learning curve, and the most flexible sub/f2p plans. Heck its still the closest to any set of D&D edition ruleset, scary isnt it!? Unfortunately the new Zinga like decisions they are making of late is ruining the nostalgic feel ofd D&D and dare I say DDO. If they continue on and DDO becomes "generic" it will be over for DDO. That's my honest feel.

    For DDO to remain important - it must remain niche.
    DDO is still a bastardization of D&D. It has always been and will always be.
    The D&D system is not compatible with online gaming without being bastardized. Otherwise the game would have crashed long ago.

    Here are a few examples :
    - Spells have to be learned/selected after a night of rest.
    And if you want to cast 5 magic Missiles you have to take 5 magic missiles.
    When you have used your spells you are out of luck. You will have to relearn them... after a night of rest.
    No Spell Points ( ok it's an obscure options form the rules, but it has been completely bastardized to fit DDO ), just spell slots.

    - While we are at it : resting. in DDO it's done through shrines, taverns and when exiting quests.
    in D&D it's done by taking a full night rest sleeping... It cannot be simulated in an online game.

    - Loot, especially loot quality and quantity.
    DDO is Monty Haul D&D at it's extreme, take a LVL 15 character from a new player ( so no twink gear ) this character
    will have in items more items than what a full party of LVL 15 characters would have in a normal PnP game.
    And all these items will be of better quality than what he could have had in PnP.

    - This leads to inflated HP and CR mobs...
    Between the Spellpoints and the Monty Haul the mob have to be tweaked to survive long enough.
    This means, as the CR formula hasn't changed that the CR become all wacky.

    - Last, LVL 20 and more
    Every D&D PnP player knows that by LVL 20 the system starts to unravel, trying to go further up though things like Epic Levels is just splinting a wooden leg.
    D&D is not meant to be played at high level, a LVL 20 character is supposed to have a horde of followers, a castle and territory to manage, no to go
    cavorting with Kobolds in sewers. He has people to do that for him.

    DDO is not the closest to any D&D Ruleset. NWO is almost an exact transfer of 4th Edition in a MMO.
    There's less differences between 4th Ed and NOW that there was between 3.5 and DDO at the start of DDO

    Now last DDO is the Morgan Car of the MMO. ( for those that don't know : http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/ )
    What the Production at Turbines has been trying very hard to do with it is to make it an Opel or a Ford or a Renault.
    But those that buys Morgans don't buy Renaults, Fords or Opels.
    And those that buys Renaults, Opels or Fords don't care about the Morgan. ( too exotic )

    ( Yeah I placed it )

    Honestly if you want a PnP ruleset that doesn't unravel at high level D&D is not the one to use... Rolemaster would be more efficient and would need less adaptations than D&D.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    DDO2 is already here, it's called ENHANCEMENT PASS

    Call me crazy, but I think you are now playing DDO2... or as close as it will ever get to DDO2.

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  20. #20

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    When will there be a DDO2? In all likelihood, never. There is no compelling reason to produce it from a business standpoint. Perhaps a graphics update will be released if the current designs are ever deemed as a significant cause of player attrition, but that is unlikely as well.

    IP licensing is another great hurdle for any new version to overcome. WotC (or Hasbro) appears quite happy to parcel out the various incarnations of D&D to any company willing to pay for them. However in Turbine's case, they seem do so in the context of re-releasing or introducing new material for older modules and realms. MotU was released in conjunction with the reissue of the Queen of the Spiders series. Shadowfell came into being as part of The Sundering. When and if D&D 5.0 ever makes it to market, they may license it to Turbine or they may not.

    There will definitely be other MMOs based on D&D (Neverwinter being the latest example), but a DDO2 franchise from Turbine will probably not be among them.
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