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  1. #1
    Community Member Neverwinterer's Avatar
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    Post DWARVEN TUNNELLER. Please critique my build

    This is a design I just made trying to have the maximum critical available.
    Still haven't been tested. Don't know if it would work, but after checking three times I can't find a reason why it shouldn't. Maybe

    Strong points: x7 crit multiplier, hight number of attacks (TWF+Divine favor). Cleric auras for a little self healing. 67 PRR easily attainable. Basic cleric buffs and Heal. Can be done in a first life, only with +2 tomes and 32 point build.
    Weak points: No evasion, mediocre saving throws, no mass healing and small spell points pool, so impossible (or at least very hard) to heal in raids. Enhancements are pretty tight, so there is little room left for customizing.

    BUILD: Dwarven tunneller

    Race: Dwarf
    MNK 1, CLR 11, FTR 8 (MCCCCCCCCCCCFFFFFFFF)
    32 Points Build

    Attributes
    Base Tome Raises Final
    STR 16 +2 +5 23
    DEX 15 +2 17
    CON 18 +2 21
    INT 8 +2 10
    WIS 8 +2 10
    CHA 10 +2 12

    Raise to strength at levels 4,8,12,16,20.
    At level 24, you can either choose to raise CON to qualify for Epic Toughness at lvl27 or strength if you plan to get any other feat.

    Notes
    Wear two picks (I would recommend heavy and light offhand). GS and alchemical are the best options I've found.
    Wear no armor. You should remain centered no matter what.
    Build hard to level. Don't get decent damage until after lvl18+

    Feats
    Level
    1 Weapon Focus, Power attack(monk)
    3 Empower healing
    6 Adept of forms
    9 Quicken Spell
    12 Master of Forms
    13 Cleave (fighter)
    14 Two weapons fighting (fighter)
    15 Improved critical piercing
    16 Improved two weapons fighting (fighter)
    18 Grandmaster of forms, Weapon specialization (fighter)
    20 Weapon Specialization (fighter)
    21 Great Cleave
    24 Overhelming critical (Epic)


    Skills
    I'll recommend concentration, balance and heal.


    Enhancements

    Dwarf 6
    -----
    Dwarven toughness (core) 1
    Dwarven constitution (core) 2
    Dwarven tougness (core) 1
    Dwarven weapong training (tier1) 1
    Dwarven weapon training (tier2) 1

    Radiant servant 32
    ---------------
    Healing domain (core) 1
    Extra turning (tier1) x3
    Altruism (tier1) x2
    Efficient empower healing (tier2) x2 =4
    Intense healing (tier3) x3 = 6
    Unyielding sovereignty (tier3) 2
    Charisma +1 (tier3) 2
    Endless turning(tier4) x3=6
    Charisma +2 (tier4) 2
    Incredible healing (tier 4) 2
    Positive energy aura (Tier5) 2

    Kensei 36
    ------
    Kensei Focus: Picks and Hammers (core) 1
    Spiritual Bond (core) 1
    Weapon group specialization (tier1) 2
    Extra action boost (tier1) x3 = 6
    Action boost - Haste (tier1)x3 =6
    Weapon group specialization (tier2) 2
    Weapon Meditation (tier2) 2
    Shattering Strike (tier3) 2
    Weapon group specialization (tier3) 2
    Weapon group specialization (tier4) 2
    A Good Death (tier5) 2
    Keen Edge (tier5)2
    One With The Blade (tier5) 2

    Stalwart defender 6
    ------------------
    Toughness (core) 1
    Overbalance (core) 1
    Stalwart Defense (core) 1
    Improved Stalwart Defense: Durable defense (tier1) x3
    D&D player since 1991. Played every D&D videogame since Eye of the Beholder. ¡¡¡Creeped by the 4th ed D&D ruleset!!!

  2. #2
    Community Member elgranmago13's Avatar
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    I see two problems on the build:

    1- One with the blade (the fighter enhancement that would let you use picks while centered) requires greater weapon focus, which is not on your feat list. I believe it also requires greater weapon specialization, which is not on the list, but weapons specialization is listed twice so I figured on of those would be it.

    2- You cannot have two tier 5 enhancements, so no radiant servant aura with one with the blade.

  3. #3
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Not taking Divine Might in such a build is a serious lack, even with 10 starting CHA.

    10
    +2 tome
    +2 shipbuff
    +8 item
    +3 insight
    +1 exceptional
    26 TOTAL

    It's +8 insight bonus to STR (so 5 more than a +3 insight), and you could acquire more.

  4. #4
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Since you are remaining centered and wearing no armor, is there a way to fit in L2 monk for evasion? Not sure what sacrificing a level of fighter or cleric would do to this build.

  5. #5
    Community Member Neverwinterer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgranmago13 View Post
    I see two problems on the build:

    1- One with the blade (the fighter enhancement that would let you use picks while centered) requires greater weapon focus, which is not on your feat list. I believe it also requires greater weapon specialization, which is not on the list, but weapons specialization is listed twice so I figured on of those would be it.

    2- You cannot have two tier 5 enhancements, so no radiant servant aura with one with the blade.
    You are so right! Thanks for the help
    D&D player since 1991. Played every D&D videogame since Eye of the Beholder. ¡¡¡Creeped by the 4th ed D&D ruleset!!!

  6. #6
    Community Member Neverwinterer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Not taking Divine Might in such a build is a serious lack, even with 10 starting CHA.

    10
    +2 tome
    +2 shipbuff
    +8 item
    +3 insight
    +1 exceptional
    26 TOTAL

    It's +8 insight bonus to STR (so 5 more than a +3 insight), and you could acquire more.
    As I can't have two tier 5 enhancements (my bad), I'll try to use the points in Divine Might, thanks for the advice
    D&D player since 1991. Played every D&D videogame since Eye of the Beholder. ¡¡¡Creeped by the 4th ed D&D ruleset!!!

  7. #7
    Community Member Neverwinterer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Since you are remaining centered and wearing no armor, is there a way to fit in L2 monk for evasion? Not sure what sacrificing a level of fighter or cleric would do to this build.
    I've tried, but since 11 Cleric levels are required for heal and 8 Fighter are required to pick One with the blade's prerequisites... There is no room left for the 2nd monk level without loosing Heal spell or One with the blade.
    D&D player since 1991. Played every D&D videogame since Eye of the Beholder. ¡¡¡Creeped by the 4th ed D&D ruleset!!!

  8. #8
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverwinterer View Post
    I've tried, but since 11 Cleric levels are required for heal and 8 Fighter are required to pick One with the blade's prerequisites... There is no room left for the 2nd monk level without loosing Heal spell or One with the blade.
    Oh, okay I see.

    Thinking out loud, since the purpose of this build is crits, not healing, wondering if evasion for heal is a "six of one" and "half a dozen" of the other type of thing. Does Monk 2 bring anything else to the table?

    EDIT: just checked the wiki, it gives you another feat and the AC bonus for wisdom.

  9. #9
    Founder Firepants's Avatar
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    Honestly, I feel that you should just go 6 levels Cleric to get burst and some boost to Heal power, 2 Monk (evasion rules), and the rest Fighter for your centered stance and feats. 11 levels of Cleric, while yes, it gets you Heal, is going to cut into your DPS in a big way. Better yet do 12 Cleric, 6 FTR, and 2 Monk if you must have Heal.
    Last edited by Firepants; 09-16-2013 at 09:01 AM.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverwinterer View Post
    1 Weapon Focus, Power attack(monk)
    Weap Focus req's BAB 1, which you won't have at lvl 1 if you start monk (or cleric). No big deal, just take Cleave or TWF instead and delay WF until later.

    However, I don't see GTWF on your feat list, and that should definitely be added. Also, if you're planning to use Earth stance for the crit multiplier, you could stop at Master stance, since GM only provides a little more PRR + threat amp.
    Stalwart defender 6
    ------------------
    Toughness (core) 1
    Overbalance (core) 1
    Stalwart Defense (core) 1
    Improved Stalwart Defense: Durable defense (tier1) x3
    EDIT: you need to spend at least 11 APs in SD to pick up Stalwart Defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverwinterer View Post
    I've tried, but since 11 Cleric levels are required for heal and 8 Fighter are required to pick One with the blade's prerequisites... There is no room left for the 2nd monk level without loosing Heal spell or One with the blade.
    Have you considered going halfling w/DM instead? That would let you drop cleric entirely - or at least reduce it to a bare minimum - for more monk and/or ftr lvls. The drawback is only getting 4 uses of Heal from halfling DMs.

    Another drawback to not having at least monk 2 is you can't get Iron Skin, which is worth up to +15 PRR in Earth Stance.
    Quote Originally Posted by elgranmago13 View Post
    1- One with the blade (the fighter enhancement that would let you use picks while centered) requires greater weapon focus, which is not on your feat list. I believe it also requires greater weapon specialization, which is not on the list, but weapons specialization is listed twice so I figured on of those would be it.
    Nope, GWS is no longer a pre-req for anything in Kensei, AFAICT, which is good because it req's ftr lvl 12 to get. OTOH, since you need ftr 12 to take Power Surge, it's still a pretty attractive DPS combo.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 09-16-2013 at 09:25 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Neverwinterer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firepants View Post
    Honestly, I feel that you should just go 6 levels Cleric to get burst and some boost to Heal power, 2 Monk (evasion rules), and the rest Fighter for your centered stance and feats. 11 levels of Cleric, while yes, it gets you Heal, is going to cut into your DPS in a big way. Better yet do 12 Cleric, 6 FTR, and 2 Monk if you must have Heal.
    Thanks for your honest suggestion. As the build seems a bit feat starved right now, I'll send it back to the drawing desk and check for the possibilities. Maybe boosting a little bit more the reflex saves would help evasion be worthy enough.
    D&D player since 1991. Played every D&D videogame since Eye of the Beholder. ¡¡¡Creeped by the 4th ed D&D ruleset!!!

  12. #12
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverwinterer View Post
    I'll send it back to the drawing desk and check for the possibilities.
    The idea has merit, x7 crits is cool. Good luck I hope you come up with a good build for this.

  13. #13
    Community Member Neverwinterer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Weap Focus req's BAB 1, which you won't have at lvl 1 if you start monk (or cleric). No big deal, just take Cleave or TWF instead and delay WF until later.
    That will make leveling easier. Nice

    However, I don't see GTWF on your feat list, and that should definitely be added. Also, if you're planning to use Earth stance for the crit multiplier, you could stop at Master stance, since GM only provides a little more PRR + threat amp.[/QUOTE]

    Wohoo, I missed that spot. This way I can save a very precious feat and expend it in something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    EDIT: you need to spend at least 11 APs in SD to pick up Stalwart Defense.
    Ok, i'll fix it on the 2.0 version.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Have you considered going halfling w/DM instead? That would let you drop cleric entirely - or at least reduce it to a bare minimum - for more monk and/or ftr lvls. The drawback is only getting 4 uses of Heal from halfling DMs.
    That, sir, is a great suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Another drawback to not having at least monk 2 is you can't get Iron Skin, which is worth up to +15 PRR in Earth Stance.
    And missing evasion. Definitely 2 levels of monk should be in the build.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Nope, GWS is no longer a pre-req for anything in Kensei, AFAICT, which is good because it req's ftr lvl 12 to get. OTOH, since you need ftr 12 to take Power Surge, it's still a pretty attractive DPS combo.
    The conclusion I get after reading your post is: Halfling Burrower: 2 Mnk, 6 Clr, 12 Ftr. Full crit multiplier, Healing bursts, Heal from DM, evasion and good saves. The extra levels of fighter will lessen the problem with the number of feats required to make it work. Thanks a lot for the help (+1)
    D&D player since 1991. Played every D&D videogame since Eye of the Beholder. ¡¡¡Creeped by the 4th ed D&D ruleset!!!

  14. #14
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverwinterer View Post
    The conclusion I get after reading your post is: Halfling Burrower: 2 Mnk, 6 Clr, 12 Ftr. Full crit multiplier, Healing bursts, Heal from DM, evasion and good saves. The extra levels of fighter will lessen the problem with the number of feats required to make it work. Thanks a lot for the help (+1)
    Be sure and post it!

    Yeah - unbongwah is a L20 Character Builder, probably into epic levels too.

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverwinterer View Post
    The conclusion I get after reading your post is: Halfling Burrower: 2 Mnk, 6 Clr, 12 Ftr. Full crit multiplier, Healing bursts, Heal from DM, evasion and good saves. The extra levels of fighter will lessen the problem with the number of feats required to make it work. Thanks a lot for the help (+1)
    Two other possibilities: monk 6 / ftr 8 / cleric 6 or monk 2 / ftr 8 / cleric 10. You give up Power Surge + GWS, but extra monk lvls mean you can add Shadow Veil (25% Incorp), Fists of Light for a bit more free self-heals, and higher-tier monk abilities (e.g., extra sneak atk from Ninja which will stack w/halfling sneak atk); while extra cleric lvls gives you more SPs and lvl 4+5 spells (e.g., CCW, Death Ward, FoM, Prot. from Elements, etc.). Basically it's a question of whether you're trying to emphasize DPS or survivability.

    Also don't forget that Emp & Max will boost radiant bursts, as well as Emp Heal; so if you can find a way to squeeze them in, you can boost your bursts for free.

    Finally, while leveling you may want to use short swords until you have One w/Blade; you can stay centered w/SSs thanks to Ninja. In fact, one alternative to this build is something like monk 6 / cleric 13 / <splash> 1 using SSs; you miss out on DPS bonuses from ftr, ofc, but gain a lot more cleric levels.

  16. #16
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    In fact, one alternative to this build is something like monk 6 / cleric 13 / <splash> 1 using SSs; you miss out on DPS bonuses from ftr, ofc, but gain a lot more cleric levels.
    Doesn't that stray from the high crit intended for the build? Or did you mean an alternative to that theme?

  17. #17
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Doesn't that stray from the high crit intended for the build? Or did you mean an alternative to that theme?
    Like I said, you miss out on the DPS bonuses from ftr like Keen Edge+One w/Blade; but you'd still be able to pick up Master Earth stance. Plus if he doesn't need T5 Kensei abilities, it frees him up to take T5 Radiant Servant (i.e., aura) instead. It all depends on which element OP wants to emphasize with this build.

  18. #18
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Like I said, you miss out on the DPS bonuses from ftr like Keen Edge+One w/Blade; but you'd still be able to pick up Master Earth stance. Plus if he doesn't need T5 Kensei abilities, it frees him up to take T5 Radiant Servant (i.e., aura) instead. It all depends on which element OP wants to emphasize with this build.
    I was speaking more specifically about shortwords with x2 crit vs. heavy pick x4 crit, but I see your point.

  19. #19
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    At the opposite extreme, you could do halfling monk 6 / ftr 12 / cleric 2; in this case, the cleric splash is for Divine Might, Heal skill to boost Pos spellpower, maybe Wand & Scroll Mastery. Gives up bursts and most cleric buffs, but still has Fists of Light and halfling DMs for some self-heals. Hmmm, that's actually not a bad idea for Quad-H revamp...

  20. #20
    Community Member Neverwinterer's Avatar
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    The second attempt of this "max" crit build is on a new post (too many changes that technically is a new build).

    You can find it here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...it-multiplier)

    Thanks to everybody for your ideas and suggestions. Very helpful indeed.
    D&D player since 1991. Played every D&D videogame since Eye of the Beholder. ¡¡¡Creeped by the 4th ed D&D ruleset!!!

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