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  1. #1
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Default Concentration and scrolls

    Does concentration skill matter for scrolls?

    For example, my ranger can UMD heal scolls, but when heavily damaged he fails.
    Also when running he sometimes fails to use scroll (unless he jumps + use scroll, never fails this way).

    He has Concentration 44 (48 with GH).
    It's not that low value, so I suspect that it has nothing to do for using scrolls, but I might be wrong.
    Last edited by TheRobai; 09-16-2013 at 01:42 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Yes there's a concentration check for using scrolls, but if you can't get them to work without jump casting maybe you have some other issue going on.

  3. #3
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayseifn View Post
    Yes there's a concentration check for using scrolls, but if you can't get them to work without jump casting maybe you have some other issue going on.
    Heal scrolls does work without jumping, but it fails sometimes if I take hits or moving.
    I can move fast and no-fail use heal scrolls, but only when it's jump + use scroll.

    I have doubts, because neither skill description, nor wiki has information about concentration skill used for scrolls (at least I couldn't find it on wiki).
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  4. #4
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    If you have heal scrolls not casting but still going on cooldown, would guess you are running into the same bug that effects potions. If you start to use a potion and start (or stop?) moving in the middle of the animation, then the potion won't take effect and will go on cooldown. As long as you keep moving or keep standing still, things will work as expected.

    Also, there is a concentration check for scroll use when you take damage, just like there is one for spell casting. However, the quicken feat doesn't work on scrolls, so the only way to prevent failure when taking damage is to have a high concentration. And, in the higher difficulties, just not get hit while using the scroll, as no amount of concentration would allow you to pass the check.

  5. #5
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Just failed to use Teleport scroll (Concentration failed).

    The thing that worries me is that this time I was taking LOW dmg (68) and concentration 52 (5+47) still failed.
    I wonder if concentration +15 item would help at all.

    This is what combat log shows:
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  6. #6
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    Just failed to use Teleport scroll (Concentration failed).

    The thing that worries me is that this time I was taking LOW dmg (68) and concentration 52 (5+47) still failed.
    I wonder if concentration +15 item would help at all.

    This is what combat log shows:
    well, u took 68 and ur skill check was 52, isn't that a fail? by 16 exactly @_@

    concentration for scroll healing is hard to keep when receiving high damage(EE) keep it in mind

    is true that wiki doesn't say so but iirc the skill ingame tells u that is used for scrolls too
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  7. #7
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    is true that wiki doesn't say so but iirc the skill ingame tells u that is used for scrolls too
    Nope, nothing about scrolls is there (screenshot taken on my Wiz):



    Looks like the answer I was looking for is in this screenshot (assuming that the same rule applies to scrolls too).

    So, for Teleport scroll it works this way:

    If d20 + Concentration_skill < 10 + 7 + incoming_dmg
    then you fail to use a scroll (or cast a spell, etc.).

    What about that 68 dmg?
    d20 + 47 < 10 + 7 +68 = 85
    So, even if I rolled 20 and put on +15 concentration item I would still fail, since 20+47+15 = 82 < 85.
    In other words, Concentration skill is totally useless for my Ranger.

    Let's look at my Wiz now.
    If d20 + 63 < 10 + spell_lvl + dmg then it's a fail.
    If I cast a lvl 20 spell and do the luckiest roll (roll 20) then I can take only max 53 damage or will be interrupted otherwise (LOL).

    Ok, thanks everyone.
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    Community Member Sianys's Avatar
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    If it's really important that you're able to use the scrolls, you could also try taking the Combat Casting feat (if a Ranger can take it, haven't checked):
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Combat_Casting

    It could mean, once you *do* add that +15 Concentration item, that you could *just* make the check without failing.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    wands dont have a concentration check, though they dont heal much either.

    if you do have a spare feat take quicken and twist cocoon.

  10. #10
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sianys View Post
    If it's really important that you're able to use the scrolls, you could also try taking the Combat Casting feat (if a Ranger can take it, haven't checked):
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Combat_Casting

    It could mean, once you *do* add that +15 Concentration item, that you could *just* make the check without failing.
    Lol, no, ty

    Not wasting feat slot for a +4 bonus to a Concentration skill (especially after my previous post, which gave me a conclusion about uselessness of concentration skill, at least for my Ranger, actually I'm planning to get rid of that skill).
    I also wouldn't even consider wasting feat slot even if it were NO FAIL concentration bonus (I mean if instead of +4 it would be +10000 or so).

    Concentration fail RARELY happens to me, because usually I just jump + heal scroll (it never fails).

    The skill could be useful for tanks (when shield blocking).
    But then again, after my previous post I realized that for tanks it's a useless skill too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    wands dont have a concentration check, though they dont heal much either.

    if you do have a spare feat take quicken and twist cocoon.
    If you have Quicken then concentration skill is not needed at all.
    Which means that I was wasting skill points on my Wiz too

    But I don't think that metamagic feats can be used for using scrolls.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    If you have Quicken then concentration skill is not needed at all.
    Yes, it is. For scrolls!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    If I cast a lvl 20 spell
    There is no such thing. The epic feats are considered level 10 spells, which is higher than any actual spell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    So, for Teleport scroll it works this way:

    If d20 + Concentration_skill < 10 + 7 + incoming_dmg
    then you fail to use a scroll (or cast a spell, etc.).

    What about that 68 dmg?
    d20 + 47 < 10 + 7 +68 = 85
    So, even if I rolled 20 and put on +15 concentration item I would still fail, since 20+47+15 = 82 < 85.
    In other words, Concentration skill is totally useless for my Ranger.

    Let's look at my Wiz now.
    If d20 + 63 < 10 + spell_lvl + dmg then it's a fail.
    If I cast a lvl 20 spell and do the luckiest roll (roll 20) then I can take only max 53 damage or will be interrupted otherwise (LOL).

    Ok, thanks everyone.
    a correction in the math:

    First Teleport is not a level 7 spell it is a Level 5 spell
    d20 + 47 < 10 + 5 +68 = 83

    You have options to improve your concentration check, some are:
    1. Higher Constitution - Every 2 Points of Constitution = 1 Point of Concentration
    2. Constitution Skill Item - such as greensteel
    3. Skill Tome - Find/DDO store


    outside of that your only other options is to avoid being hit when you cast, such as timing scroll use between hits (not always possible) add in additional miss chance options, incorporeal and displacement. If you can use a heal scroll you should be able to UMD displacement.

  14. #14
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Yes, it is. For scrolls!
    Nope, it's useless, because:
    - if I take small amount of dmg then that means I do nothing dangerous and can ignore it most of the time (and drink SF pot if really necessary)
    - if I take average damage (like 70-100) then concentration will fail anyway (unless I totally gimp myself and max out concentration, and all that for a rare situational thing)
    - If I take heavy dmg then even gimping myself won't help

    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    There is no such thing. The epic feats are considered level 10 spells, which is higher than any actual spell.
    Right, I mixed caster lvl with spell lvl (was in quest when writing this post, I guess those Shamans in von2 confused my mind after all ).
    Just replace 20 with 9 (or higher if mobs have some epic spells, or whatever).
    Anyway, ~10 points doesn't change much.
    I mean there is no safe value of Concentration which can help you when you taking 150+ dmg (which is where I actually need to heal myself often), so meh.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    I mean there is no safe value of Concentration which can help you when you taking 150+ dmg (which is where I actually need to heal myself often), so meh.
    Which is why Rejuvenation Cocoon is used so often now and scrolls have practically died off. I don't even bother buying them anymore. Until you hit 20+ though you're stuck with potions, scrolls, and wands. So Concentration is a good thing to take. You could always LR it out later if you really don't want to "gimp yourself".
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    Rejuvenation Cocoon also provides temporary hit points that allow you to cast a scroll without a concentration failure FYI.

  17. #17
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    Rejuvenation Cocoon also provides temporary hit points that allow you to cast a scroll without a concentration failure FYI.
    Thanks for the tip.
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