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  1. #1
    Community Member tibi6893's Avatar
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    Default Help me with my TWF'er and Rogue toon

    Hi,
    Maybe i can get some serious help here, other sections failed a bit.
    First of all: i need 2 build for 2 different character. I dont have better tomes, just +2. I dont own any exp pack atm,no ED and druid.

    1, My first character is a lvl 19 rogue with 1 monk splash for the handwraps, before i stopped the game this build was okay stun-sneak attack-win, easy. He has barbarian and monk pastlives. I would like to use my +20 lesser heart to make him a bit stronger. I would like to keep the unarmed weapon style, just dont know what class/splash is the best right now (before i stopped 12ftr/8monk or something smiliar was the best dps with handwraps).

    2, My second build request is a bit harder and more important.
    I left him in the middle of a tr, he is not even 20, just lvl 12. Warchanter bard with fighter and rogue splashes - 8/2/2.
    He has ranger, barbarian, rogue, fighter pastlives. He was a TWF dwarf in ALL life, and i would like to keep this, and make a build around this.
    Im up for any working splash and class combination, my only request is just to keep him as a dwarf and use my old GS Dwarven axes.

    Please help me with this stuff, the bard is more important because i would love to lvl him up before i get the 2 expansion at the end of this month, my rogue is already 20 so there is not much to do.
    Thanks!
    ]

  2. #2
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibi6893 View Post
    Hi,
    Maybe i can get some serious help here, other sections failed a bit.
    First of all: i need 2 build for 2 different character. I dont have better tomes, just +2. I dont own any exp pack atm,no ED and druid.

    1, My first character is a lvl 19 rogue with 1 monk splash for the handwraps, before i stopped the game this build was okay stun-sneak attack-win, easy. He has barbarian and monk pastlives. I would like to use my +20 lesser heart to make him a bit stronger. I would like to keep the unarmed weapon style, just dont know what class/splash is the best right now (before i stopped 12ftr/8monk or something smiliar was the best dps with handwraps).
    17 Rogue, 2 Fighter, 1 Monk. Just go for the similar approach you had before, only now it works a bit easier because you get a bonus to stun dc's. I currently run this exact build, and love it. Starting stats will obviously be different than mine, or they could remain the exact same and you just wouldn't have to worry about the improved sneak attack feat. 10 17 13 11 17 8. Obviously it takes a bit of investment for hp since you have only 13 starting con, however I can comfortably run about with 650-700 in dreadnought. You would subtract about 60hp from that, so you could very viably run around with 600hp standing otherwise. Feats are just the always simple twf feats, stunning fists, precision, toughness is still useful on this build just for that little bit of extra cushion then you can take the new monk form feats (that being said, take the monk level early so you can get these feats easily enough) so you can walk around with the ultimate stances, if you so pleased.

    Big thing about this build is you are playing it more like an archer than a fighter. You don't want to be hit at all, and your dps is not in how hard you hit but more about how fast you hit. Yes Earth stance is wonderful however the damage output you'll have will cause you to drag aggro off of the bigger, less intelligent barbarians in party. For that I suggest Wind stance for dps purposes, and water stance for trash simply for the bonus to dc's. You could stop taking the feats after the Master since it will be easier to work with the tomes you have. Obviously if you end up with better tomes later on, you can swap a feat out for the grandmaster forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by tibi6893 View Post
    2, My second build request is a bit harder and more important.
    I left him in the middle of a tr, he is not even 20, just lvl 12. Warchanter bard with fighter and rogue splashes - 8/2/2.
    He has ranger, barbarian, rogue, fighter pastlives. He was a TWF dwarf in ALL life, and i would like to keep this, and make a build around this.
    Im up for any working splash and class combination, my only request is just to keep him as a dwarf and use my old GS Dwarven axes.

    Please help me with this stuff, the bard is more important because i would love to lvl him up before i get the 2 expansion at the end of this month, my rogue is already 20 so there is not much to do.
    Thanks!
    Ok now for the bard. This one is a bit harder since I don't really know much about bards and all I know is you want to be able to dual wield. Big thing here though is you can swap the 2 fighter levels for 2 ranger levels and gain the overall same benefits, yet you could also potentially take some more ranged feats to add that into your little happy fun time. If that isn't as interesting to you as it is to me, you could just stay the 2 fighter no problem. Bard is kinda lackluster in terms of dps output, however with the overall changes to everything in the game they aren't really all that bad. You could just leave his levels as he sits now.

    His enhancements are what you would really want to look at him for. Warchanter gives some good offensive abilities, while spellsinger is going to allow you to have some decent CC for all levels. The big draw for the fighter and rogue levels is sneak attack and access to the full haste boost. Potentially the best thing to do would be to take haste boost 3 from fighter and the extra action boosts, then dip into rogue assassin for the extra sneak. The rest would be more whatever your personal preference is for that.

    That, however, is only if you want to stay bard. Since you're low level you have the ability to change absolutely everything about the build as is. Being a bard limits you from being able to take paladin or monk levels with your lr, and I don't think you would want to pay to do more than the +20 you were gifted. With that in mind we can develop all sorts of new and interesting builds.

    Barbarian: Go with a similar build, something like 16 Barbarian 2 Rogue 2 Fighter. Dwarves get bonuses to tactical feats which synergizes really well with the 2 fighter and the high strength of the barbarian. 2 Rogue allows you to have some basic trapping skill while also granting you evasion for those hairy situations throughout the game. The big allure now for Barbarian is actually Ravager. That prestige grants a lot of non rage based abilities, meaning you could potentially raise your UMD up and actually be able to use it in a pinch for a heal scroll or something. Occult slayer is also good like this, since it's less rage based and more anti-mage design. Also the big allure of Ravager is Crit Rage at tier 5. Increases the crit range of your weapons by +2, meaning your dwarven waraxes become 17-20/x3. While yes some people will say OMG BARBS SHOULD BE THF YOU ARE GIMP IF YOU AREN'T just remember that they're shallow minded fun Na.zis.

    Starting stats depend on what you would like to do: If you would want to max out Search, Disable, UMD, and Balance you would probably want right around 14 starting int. This, coupled with your +2 tomes means your stats would need to look something like 18 15 16 14 8 6. If you didn't feel like dealing with traps or any of that hullabaloo, just forget about int and put the points into con or dex. You'll have enough dex anyway with the +2 tome so you'll be fine. You could then just focus on UMD (you'll love it, trust me) and balance.

    This is only really 1 suggestion. Remember you can do whatever you would please, even to the point of having a battle lich dwarven wizard (don't do it, you'll regret it). I just don't have the time necessary to post out every possible build design you could make.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post


    Ok now for the bard. This one is a bit harder since I don't really know much about bards and all I know is you want to be able to dual wield. Big thing here though is you can swap the 2 fighter levels for 2 ranger levels and gain the overall same benefits, yet you could also potentially take some more ranged feats to add that into your little happy fun time. If that isn't as interesting to you as it is to me, you could just stay the 2 fighter no problem. Bard is kinda lackluster in terms of dps output, however with the overall changes to everything in the game they aren't really all that bad. You could just leave his levels as he sits now.

    His enhancements are what you would really want to look at him for. Warchanter gives some good offensive abilities, while spellsinger is going to allow you to have some decent CC for all levels. The big draw for the fighter and rogue levels is sneak attack and access to the full haste boost. Potentially the best thing to do would be to take haste boost 3 from fighter and the extra action boosts, then dip into rogue assassin for the extra sneak. The rest would be more whatever your personal preference is for that.

    That, however, is only if you want to stay bard. Since you're low level you have the ability to change absolutely everything about the build as is. Being a bard limits you from being able to take paladin or monk levels with your lr, and I don't think you would want to pay to do more than the +20 you were gifted. With that in mind we can develop all sorts of new and interesting builds.
    Um. I think the +20 still has the limitation that you can only have 3 heroic classes at a time, right? (Or was that fixed already?) Sort of limits changing your main class after cl3, usually... and often doesn't do anything good to other splashes either.

    See, assuming you had taken in order... say... 1 rogue, 2 bard, 1 ftr, 4 bard, 1 rogue, 2 bard, 1 ftr... you're going to have problems replacing the fighter levels with anything. You'd have to first overwrite the rogue levels to get your classes down to 2, and only after that... but, if you're only splashing 2 levels per "side" class and your last 2 levels were in your primary class, you can change the splash. (Still, rogue @1 gets the most skill points... and that's not going into feat prerequisites...) Of course, getting a second +heart can be used to solve this but anyway.


    (AFAICT, 16/2/2 TWF bard builds aren't going to go anywhere any time soon, anyway. Just have to plan for the particulars. Depending, you might be able to get close to optimal with just a feat swap even, and save the +20 heart for a later life...)


    BTW, Warchanters get some interesting abilities nowadays too. Sort of a rage (allows spellcasting), immunity to fatigue, +1 crit multiplier, ...plenty of sources for temp hp and optionally extra threat generation while having temp hp (what, auto-turn-off tank or something?)... and what's good for a rogue splash, medium armor proficiency has to be picked separately now, so you don't have to pay APs for that if you want to keep Evasion working.
    Last edited by mna; 09-15-2013 at 09:12 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).
    Away from the game most of 2015.

  4. #4
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Um. I think the +20 still has the limitation that you can only have 3 heroic classes at a time, right? (Or was that fixed already?) Sort of limits changing your main class after cl3, usually... and often doesn't do anything good to other splashes either.

    See, assuming you had taken in order... say... 1 rogue, 2 bard, 1 ftr, 4 bard, 1 rogue, 2 bard, 1 ftr... you're going to have problems replacing the fighter levels with anything. You'd have to first overwrite the rogue levels to get your classes down to 2, and only after that... but, if you're only splashing 2 levels per "side" class and your last 2 levels were in your primary class, you can change the splash. (Still, rogue @1 gets the most skill points... and that's not going into feat prerequisites...)


    (AFAICT, 16/2/2 TWF bard builds aren't going to go anywhere any time soon, anyway. Just have to plan for the particulars. Depending, you might be able to get close to optimal with just a feat swap even, and save the +20 heart for a later life...)


    BTW, Warchanters get some interesting abilities nowadays too. Sort of a rage (allows spellcasting), immunity to fatigue, +1 crit multiplier, ...plenty of sources for temp hp and optionally extra threat generation while having temp hp (what, auto-turn-off tank or something?)... and what's good for a rogue splash, medium armor proficiency has to be picked separately now, so you don't have to pay APs for that if you want to keep Evasion working.
    I kinda just hoped he took the levels early. Yes it's obviously halted with a butchered leveling order, but for not I'm living in blissful ignorance.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    I kinda just hoped he took the levels early. Yes it's obviously halted with a butchered leveling order, but for not I'm living in blissful ignorance.
    What, "butchered"? Optimized for skill points, possibly? (Or BAB prerequisites?)
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).
    Away from the game most of 2015.

  6. #6
    Community Member tibi6893's Avatar
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    Why 16 barbarian?
    As i saw the new enchanments, i still need 18 for the last few core skills , but a rest of the enchanments have low requirements.
    More fighter lvl for feats are not better?
    ]

  7. #7
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    If you don't plan to be 20 rogue, what is the point of going past
    level 13 rogue? 13 rogue / 7 (split) would net you far more
    than anything I see from 14-19. Just a thought.
    13 rge / 4 ranger / 3 monk - or something of that sort
    would give you a lot of offhand attacks to ramp that
    SA dmg up.
    I personally like the 13 rge 6 mnk 1 ftr/arti
    for shadowveil but a lot of players use the incorporeal form
    from ShadowDancer to cover there, so different splits work
    as well.

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