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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Protect Protection

    There is no good reason that Protection is being removed – leave Protection alone! Introduce War Priest as a new Cleric tree, as Favoured Souls will eventually get Divine Avenger.

    While War Priest is a poor attempt at an offensive melee tree, Protection is at least a poor defensive melee tree – why throw away that development time & effort? Protect Protection!

    Even ignoring the defensive versus offensive bias of the respective trees, the two trees offer distinct enough differences to warrant both. Protection’s Universal Spell Power is generally more useful than War Priest’s Fire & Light Spell Power. Many of Protection’s abilities work on others while War Priest’s are mostly self only; unlike Protection, War Priest also requires that you actively attack to make the most of your abilities.

    Forgoing the in-game distinctions, meta-gaming also requires consideration. Many of us have exhausted our ability to respect our characters and without further means to do so should not be unduly punished.

    Please prioritize Protection protection, thank you!

  2. #2
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    You are not alone in the believe that the Protection Tree should be retained and um improved over it's current state.

    When the trees were first announced I posted several times talking about the need for clerics to have:

    Heal Many - Radiant Servant
    Heal One - Protector
    Heal Thyself - WarPriest
    Necromancer
    Divine Caster

    Currently Tanking as a form of Crowd Control is not usually* an option at the highest levels thus Protector is probably being sacrificed rather than getting the improvement it deserves.

    The Twilight Avengers are always recruiting - http://twilightavengersofeberron.yuku.com/topic/655

  3. #3
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    I agree they should keep them both. However, if forced to choose, I would pick warpriest every time.
    Matt Walsh:
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    There is no good reason that Protection is being removed
    No point having a worthless tree exist at all if it provides nothing of any worth to anyone.
    Protection tree sucked, it deserved to be removed.

    Warpriest, Exorcist and some sort of Battlecaster are missing trees and they need to provide decent perks to take them vs giving up radiant servant's aura and burst.

    I havent personally reviewed the Warpriest yet... but grumblings indicate this is no prize pony either.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 09-18-2013 at 11:00 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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  5. #5
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    Exclamation Protection for All

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    No point having a worthless tree exist at all if it provides nothing of any worth to anyone.
    Protection tree sucked, it deserved to be removed.

    Warpriest and Battlecaster are the two missing trees and they both need to provide decent perks to take them vs giving up radiant servant's aura and burst.

    I havent personally reviewed the Warpriest yet... but grumblings indicate this is no prize pony either.
    I am astounded that someone that admittedly does not know what they are talking about would feel they should contribute. In actual fact you have only served to obfuscate the issue. Indeed as it is arguable that Protection is in fact better than War Priest it really calls your ‘opinion’ into question.

    This thread alone shows that people value Protection and therefore is far from worthless. Could Prot be better? Yes most definitely; however, War Priest is no better off than Prot and thus by your logic WP should not exist either.

    As melee-ish Trees (rather than caster Trees) there is some overlap between Protection & War Priest; however, they provide very different options overall. The differences between the two trees only emphasizes the different play styles of offensive versus defensive melee.

    Ultimately however the issue is simply that no matter how bad you may perceive it Protection exists and is current functional with people using it that wish to continue using it. Why throw that time & effort away needlessly? Adding War Priest does not require Protection’s removal – they are distinct enough to co-exist.

    Keeping Protection not only avoids alienating those that like and use it, but presents other options such as making War Priest Cleric only and leaving Divine Avenger for FvS.

    In any event, there is simply no reason that Protection should be removed especially since it merely continues to further artificially reduce choice.

  6. #6
    Community Member FURYous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    No point having a worthless tree exist at all if it provides nothing of any worth to anyone.
    Protection tree sucked, it deserved to be removed.

    Warpriest and Battlecaster are the two missing trees and they both need to provide decent perks to take them vs giving up radiant servant's aura and burst.

    I havent personally reviewed the Warpriest yet... but grumblings indicate this is no prize pony either.
    Who decides that it "sucked" and "deserved to be removed"?

    If you don't like something, no one else is allowed to like it?

    I like it and would like to see it stay. Personally I think the melee tree is the silliest thing they could have done but I am not advocating it's removal. Let people play what and how they want to play and quit trying to shove your opinions on them.
    Choler 25 Brd 2TR | Enmity 25Clr | Exasperate 20Sor | Ferocity 6Ftr 2TR | Furyous 25Art 1TR | Hiddin 20Mnk | Infuryated 6Rng 1TR | Retributive 8Dru | Vehemence 23Rog 3TRs | Vehement 10Pal 3Mnk 1Rog | Vexate 22Wiz 2TRs | Violence 28FvS Completionist 23TRs

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    I am astounded that someone that admittedly does not know what they are talking about would feel they should contribute.
    Fail Troll.. just shows how ignant you are.
    I am stating my opinion.. don't like it... too bad... go troll something else...

    Everyone has the right to freely contribute on the forums.
    I never said I didnt know what I am taking about, I am quite versed in the use the trees and their nuances.

    Feel free to question my opionion~ but your bullying comments wont prevent me from contributing and shouldnt scare anyone else from contributing either.


    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Indeed as it is arguable that Protection is in fact better than War Priest it really calls your ‘opinion’ into question.

    This thread alone shows that people value Protection and therefore is far from worthless. Could Prot be better? Yes most definitely; however, War Priest is no better off than Prot and thus by your logic WP should not exist either.
    Just because you feel Warpriest doesnt look as good as Protection Tree doesnt make it a fact or justification to keep the Protection Tree.

    Protection tree sucked. as shown by the removal of the mostly worthless tree.

    Did everyone in this thread drop Aura/burst to go full out in the Protection tree.. I certainly didnt.

    as to Warpriest, I havent finished playing with it so by my logic I still dont have an opinion of whether it should exist or not... as a prestige it should and it probaly needs some adjusting.

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    This thread alone shows that people value Protection and therefore is far from worthless.
    Lol, 3 supporting posts in a thread does not garner justification to keep a dissapointingly inferior Prestige Tree.
    and these supporting posts read more like not wanting to give up the so called Protection tree because it is better than nothing at all..

    Cleric deserves real prestiges that are strong enough on their own to justify dropping Radiant Aura/Burst, not something where you dabble a few items as long as they dont take away radiant aura/burst.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 09-18-2013 at 11:22 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    Who decides that it "sucked" and "deserved to be removed"?

    If you don't like something, no one else is allowed to like it?

    I like it and would like to see it stay. Personally I think the melee tree is the silliest thing they could have done but I am not advocating it's removal. Let people play what and how they want to play and quit trying to shove your opinions on them.

    I stated my own opinion on it, if you liked it good for you. obviously more people disliked it enough that DDO was compelled to remove it.
    You feel a melee tree is silly and thats your opionion, others feel differently,... irregardless it is a valid prestige...
    Protection is not a Prestige... It is just some mash of stuff DDO came up with as a filler.

    ~Cleric Prestige's that were supposedly to be introduced for DDO were
    Exorcist of the Silver Flame
    Warpriest
    Radiant Servant

    ~Other DnD Prestiges...
    Black Flame Zealot
    Church Inquisitor
    Contemplative
    Divine Oracle
    Entropmancer
    Geomancer
    Hospitalor
    Pious Templar
    Radiant Servant of Pelor
    Sacred Exorcist
    Sacred Fist
    Seeker of the Misty Isle
    Shining Blade
    Stormlord


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes
    has a pretty extensive list of Prestiges...
    and probably a few other sources out there.. but nowhere is there a "Protection" prestige for clerics to be found...
    Last edited by JOTMON; 09-18-2013 at 11:25 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  9. #9
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    Exclamation Protecting > Pooing

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Protection tree sucked, it deserved to be removed.
    I havent personally reviewed the Warpriest yet... but grumblings indicate this is no prize pony either.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    as to Warpriest, I havent finished playing with it so by my logic I still dont have an opinion of whether it should exist or not... as a prestige it should and it probaly needs some adjusting.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Protection tree sucked. as shown by the removal of the mostly worthless tree.
    By your own admittance you do not know what you are talking about, so how much weight do you feel we should give you?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Fail Troll.. just shows how ignant you are.
    I am stating my opinion.. don't like it... too bad... go troll something else...
    Funny but I am not the one that jumped into a thread to poo all over it and my first statement is I have not yet checked it out. Some advice: best to keep your posts in check and let us wonder if you are smart rather than posting and convincing us otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Did everyone in this thread drop Aura/burst to go full out in the Protection tree.. I certainly didnt.
    Not everyone has access to that tree, but for those that do there are compelling reasons either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Just because you feel Warpriest doesnt look as good as Protection Tree doesnt make it a fact or justification to keep the Protection Tree.
    Agreed, which is why we are not arguing that. We are saying that since Protection ALREADY EXISTS AND FUNCTIONS it should continue to do so. Unfortunately, YOU are saying that it should go regardless. Which one of those positions is more reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Lol, 3 supporting posts in a thread does not garner justification to keep a dissapointingly inferior Prestige Tree.
    and these supporting posts read more like not wanting to give up the so called Protection tree because it is better than nothing at all..
    There are certainly more than three, but regardless while you can interpret their posts however you want the fact remains that Protection IS better than nothing. ANYTHING always is. Protection has its flaws yes, we have conceded that point; however, AoV, RS, DD and yes even WP all have their flaws to. Would you be happier to go back to before PrEs entirely? Oh, sorry that might have been before your time. Indeed given just how much of the entire game is flawed, maybe DDO is not for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    ~Cleric Prestige's that were supposedly to be introduced for DDO were
    Exorcist of the Silver Flame
    Warpriest
    Radiant Servant
    Yes, and hopefully someday we see them all in addition to ANY OTHERS THEY MAY INTRODUCE. Like Protection and Divine Disciple.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Cleric deserves real prestiges that are strong enough on their own to justify dropping Radiant Aura/Burst, not something where you dabble a few items as long as they dont take away radiant aura/burst.
    We get that you think Radiant Servant is the be all end all of PrEs; however, that does not make it so. Burst is great and Aura is very good, but they have limitations that affect their usability. Burst is but a quick dip into the RS Tree; Aura much less so. Depending upon what one wants their Cleric to do it may or MAY NOT make sense to get one or both. Funny enough, not the least of those reasons would be you want your Cleric (or to a lesser extent FvS) to not heal. In which case there are other options like AoV, DD, now WP and previously Prot.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes
    has a pretty extensive list of Prestiges...
    and probably a few other sources out there.. but nowhere is there a "Protection" prestige for clerics to be found...
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    irregardless it [War Priest] is a valid prestige...
    Protection is not a Prestige... It is just some mash of stuff DDO came up with as a filler.
    Ignoring the irony of listing ‘other sources’ and then making a blanket statement that something does not exist, whether Protection exists in PnP is irrelevant. It exists in DDO. Indeed even looking at just the PrEs many other ones do not exist either – most are a hodgepodge mishmash of multiple PrCs. Perhaps instead of wasting our time you could start a thread demanding their removal as well. I for one would be interested in seeing how that turns out…

    Expanding to DDO in general, most of the game has no basis in PnP; so try not to get too hung-up on whether Protection is legit or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I stated my own opinion on it, if you liked it good for you. obviously more people disliked it [Protection] enough that DDO was compelled to remove it.
    You say this but even a cursory search shows that is simply not the case. The majority of posts show a combination of a desire for an offensive melee PrE or for improvements to Protection. Few aside from you are on an all-out campaign to eradicate Protection.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Feel free to question my opionion~ but your bullying comments wont prevent me from contributing and shouldnt scare anyone else from contributing either.
    It is funny but the only one here bullying anyone is you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    By your own admittance you do not know what you are talking about, so how much weight do you feel we should give you?.
    Apples and Oranges, Your thread is about the protection tree, my comment is about Warpriest specifically, You are lumping them together like they are the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Funny but I am not the one that jumped into a thread to poo all over it and my first statement is I have not yet checked it out. Some advice: best to keep your posts in check and let us wonder if you are smart rather than posting and convincing us otherwise.
    Sorry, I thought you were posting a thread of discussion not gathering cheerleaders for your petition parade.

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Not everyone has access to that tree, but for those that do there are compelling reasons either way.
    Any cleric had access to the radiant servant and protection tree, so this comment doesnt make any sense

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Agreed, which is why we are not arguing that. We are saying that since Protection ALREADY EXISTS AND FUNCTIONS it should continue to do so. Unfortunately, YOU are saying that it should go regardless. Which one of those positions is more reasonable?
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    There are certainly more than three, but regardless while you can interpret their posts however you want the fact remains that Protection IS better than nothing. ANYTHING always is. Protection has its flaws yes, we have conceded that point; however, AoV, RS, DD and yes even WP all have their flaws to. Would you be happier to go back to before PrEs entirely? Oh, sorry that might have been before your time. Indeed given just how much of the entire game is flawed, maybe DDO is not for you?
    My opinion was that Protectio nshould go there were too many useless 6 second 3 PRR buffs and other items I felt were poorly introduced and worthless.
    In my opionion the best thing to do was scrap the entire tree and introduce Tree's that were actually competitve.



    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Yes, and hopefully someday we see them all in addition to ANY OTHERS THEY MAY INTRODUCE. Like Protection and Divine Disciple.
    We do need more Tree's, but I would much rather see more competative usefull tree's then Tree's that make no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    We get that you think Radiant Servant is the be all end all of PrEs; however, that does not make it so. Burst is great and Aura is very good, but they have limitations that affect their usability. Burst is but a quick dip into the RS Tree; Aura much less so. Depending upon what one wants their Cleric to do it may or MAY NOT make sense to get one or both. Funny enough, not the least of those reasons would be you want your Cleric (or to a lesser extent FvS) to not heal. In which case there are other options like AoV, DD, now WP and previously Prot.
    Radiant servant is not my favored Tree as tree's go, but currently it is basically OP compared to the other tree's and it shouldnt be.
    All the Tree's need to offer advantages unique to the paths.

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Expanding to DDO in general, most of the game has no basis in PnP; so try not to get too hung-up on whether Protection is legit or not.
    We want the DnD experience in DDO... it is Dungeons and Dragons Online operating under the license of the Wizards of the Coast.
    Granted not everything translates cleanly some some inconsistancies will result.
    but...
    The game is premised on Dnd, DDO's current choice to become a WOW clone is a failing..
    If we wanted to play WOW, we would be playing WOW.


    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    You say this but even a cursory search shows that is simply not the case. The majority of posts show a combination of a desire for an offensive melee PrE or for improvements to Protection. Few aside from you are on an all-out campaign to eradicate Protection.
    I dont see any posts hailing Protection as a great usefull tree.

    The posts I read indicate people want usefull PRE's for nannybot, Batttlecleric, battlecaster in some form.

    Where a generic build can dabble in all 3 and Focussed builds can delve deep into specific tree's.
    I see posts where people want Protection redone to be usefull and remove all the 6 to 12 second buffs to be replaced with longer duration and get some usefull powerful things from the tree or scrap it all together and actually give Tree's in the various focusses.


    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    It is funny but the only one here bullying anyone is you.
    [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    I am astounded that someone that admittedly does not know what they are talking about would feel they should contribute.
    This comment is a bullying comment.
    Attacking someone with a different comment makes you the aggressor

    back to the ...Apples and Oranges, Your thread is about the protection tree, my comment is about Warpriest specifically.
    You are lumping them together like they are the same thing and then telling me I shouldnt contribute...

    This just shows you are not having a thread of discussion, you are bullying your opinion onto others and looking for yesmen to follow with torches and pitchforks on your crusade to save protection because it is better than nothing...

    We dont want better than nothing rotton fruit, we want good product...
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  11. #11
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    Exclamation Protection protection

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Apples and Oranges, Your thread is about the protection tree, my comment is about Warpriest specifically, You are lumping them together like they are the same thing.
    No. My thread is NOT about the Protection TREE, rather it is about preventing Protection’s REMOVAL. As clearly stated in both the TITLE and OP. It is YOU that fails to grasp the difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Any cleric had access to the radiant servant and protection tree, so this comment doesnt make any sense
    I play a Favoured Soul – you may have heard of this class. I do not have access to Radiant Servant, yet I am in this thread. Think before you speak is advice you should heed.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    My opinion was that Protectio nshould go there were too many useless 6 second 3 PRR buffs and other items I felt were poorly introduced and worthless.
    In my opionion the best thing to do was scrap the entire tree and introduce Tree's that were actually competitve.
    Had this been correct it would have been your first real contribution to the thread; however since you are incorrect it is not. Protection has no 6s 3PRR buffs… once again clearly demonstrating no knowledge of what you speak.

    No one is saying Protection is perfect; we are saying that it is distinct enough to continue standing/existing on its own. War Priest is not perfect either, nor for that matter are Radiant Servant, Divine Disciple or Angel of Vengeance.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    We do need more Tree's, but I would much rather see more competative usefull tree's then Tree's that make no sense.
    Then demonstrate that Protection is neither competitive nor useful, since I certainly believe it is. If you want to talk about not making sense, why are FvS getting War Priest?


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Radiant servant is not my favored Tree as tree's go, but currently it is basically OP compared to the other tree's and it shouldnt be.
    All the Tree's need to offer advantages unique to the paths.
    Surprise! Protection DOES offer a number of unique advantages and has a distinct path. If you can understand the difference between Tank and DPS then you should be capable of understanding the difference between Protection and War Priest. It is similar to the distinction between Radiant Servant and Protection/War Priest.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    We want the DnD experience in DDO... it is Dungeons and Dragons Online operating under the license of the Wizards of the Coast.
    Granted not everything translates cleanly some some inconsistancies will result.
    but...
    The game is premised on Dnd, DDO's current choice to become a WOW clone is a failing..
    If we wanted to play WOW, we would be playing WOW.
    Yes, I agree and I am not a fan of the Feathered attempt to WoW us; however, the fact remains that whether something exists in PnP is irrelevant to whether it exists in DDO. Off the top of my head, Season’s Herald does not exist in PnP either… perhaps you could start a thread demanding its removal? Even of the PrEs that do exist most are unrecognizable when compared to their origins.



    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I dont see any posts hailing Protection as a great usefull tree.
    The posts I read indicate people want usefull PRE's for nannybot, Batttlecleric, battlecaster in some form.
    Protection is not the best PrE nor is it even a great PrE, but it is a useful PrE. For those playing defensive melee divines, Protection is far and away better than the other options. GoldyGopher sums it up best in the second post:
    Heal Many – Radiant Servant
    Heal One – Protector
    Heal Thyself – WarPriest

    Protection has numerous advantages over both War Priest and Radiant Servant. Unlike WP, Prot supports casting and unlike RS, Prot has melee buffs; Prot also advances Universal Spell Power unlike Divine Disciple. Those abilities combine into a nice package: the ability to still heal & cast effectively while contributing melee damage.

    For someone that wants “useful PrEs” it is mind boggling that you cannot see Protection’s potential.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Where a generic build can dabble in all 3 and Focussed builds can delve deep into specific tree's.
    I see posts where people want Protection redone to be usefull and remove all the 6 to 12 second buffs to be replaced with longer duration and get some usefull powerful things from the tree or scrap it all together and actually give Tree's in the various focusses.
    There is no doubt that Protection could (should) be improved; just as there is no doubt that it should not be arbitrarily removed. Protection would benefit greatly from some additional Tier5 abilities (at least one comparable to Aura) and duration extensions. But then, War Priest would benefit from the same buffs as would most other PrEs!



    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    This comment is a bullying comment.
    Attacking someone with a different comment makes you the aggressor
    No. This is a bullying comment:
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Fail Troll.. just shows how ignant you are.
    I am stating my opinion.. don't like it... too bad... go troll something else...
    your bullying comments wont prevent me from contributing and shouldnt scare anyone else from contributing either.
    Calling someone a bully when they are not is bullying. Maybe you should take your own advice…


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    back to the ...Apples and Oranges, Your thread is about the protection tree, my comment is about Warpriest specifically.
    You are lumping them together like they are the same thing and then telling me I shouldnt contribute...
    Since my thread is NOT about the Protection Tree maybe it is you that is mistaken. Everything you have ‘contributed’ has been incorrect. If you do not even know the basics how can you form a relevant opinion?


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    We dont want better than nothing rotton fruit, we want good product...
    We have a good product which is why we want Protection saved. There are unique options in the PrE that are not replicated elsewhere or moved to War Priest. Protection’s loss is bad for Clerics; it is even worse for FvS.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Had this been correct it would have been your first real contribution to the thread; however since you are incorrect it is not. Protection has no 6s 3PRR buffs… once again clearly demonstrating no knowledge of what you speak.
    right...
    Shield others 12sp- 5prr for 6 seconds plus heal skill.
    Sacred Touch (when healing allies) - a +1ac/+1prr for 12 seconds(per tier)
    Sanctuary 10sp- 20 Prr for 12 seconds (1 min cooldown)
    all of these are all Sacred Bonusses as well, so not stacking.
    ~or some other second count mass spam clickie buffs some of which also cost sp.. like we don't have enough button mashing to worry about.

    Last edited by JOTMON; 09-20-2013 at 08:34 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  13. #13
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    right... its a 5prr for 6 seconds plus heal skill..
    or some other second count mass spam clickie buffs some of which also cost sp.. like we don't have enough button mashing to worry about.

    The only part of that you got wrong is divine might that's 2 mins when upgraded and very worth it on a melee build that doesn't dump cha.

  14. #14
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    Exclamation Wrong is still Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    right... its a 5prr for 6 seconds plus heal skill..
    or some other second count mass spam clickie buffs some of which also cost sp.. like we don't have enough button mashing to worry about.
    Not my problem that you are incorrect. Do some research and come back and contribute positively once you know what you are talking about. It is a very reasonable request.

  15. #15
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The only part of that you got wrong is divine might that's 2 mins when upgraded and very worth it on a melee build that doesn't dump cha.
    The new Warpriest line still maintains that one on Tier 1 and all in all Warpriest to me looks much better than the Protection line it replaced (and less clickie intensive).

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Warpriest_enhancements

    Especially like the permanent Divine Power option on Tier5 (Can get with 5 levels of FVS/12 Levels of Cleric)
    Core ability also gives haste and blur spell.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 09-20-2013 at 08:37 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  16. #16
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    Exclamation Thanks for Contributing Positively!

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    The new Warpriest line still maintains that one on Tier 1 and all in all Warpriest to me looks much better than the Protection line it replaced (and less clickie intensive).

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Warpriest_enhancements

    Especially like the permanent Divine Power option on Tier5 (Can get with 5 levels of FVS/12 Levels of Cleric)
    Core ability also gives haste and blur spell.
    Yes War Priest shares Divine Might with Protection, but Protection also gets Blur – indeed there is (not surprisingly) a fair amount of overlap; however, Prot gives Universal Spell Power which is vastly more useful than WP’s Fire & Light.

    Protection has four clickie abilities, along with 5 SLAs and 1 spell. War Priest has six clickies, no SLAs and 2 spells… not really what I would call less clickie intensive; however, Prot’s have on average much shorter cooldowns. That said, WP’s Smite Foe is every 15s and the entire PrE is pretty much based around that attack.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Protection_enhancements

    While the permanent Divine Power is neat, it is nevertheless a castable lvl4 spell and a rather common clickie.

    Finally you only need CLr/FvS _5_ to access Tier5 abilities – you merely need to be level12 to activate any Tier5.

  17. #17
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    The new Warpriest line still maintains that one on Tier 1 and all in all Warpriest to me looks much better than the Protection line it replaced (and less clickie intensive).
    Oh I know it's still there, just saying I don't count that one in the catagory of worthless short term buffs that will accomplish nothing meaningful. Overall I agree that protection is a steaming pile that needs to be deleted from the game and our memories, it's nothing but a newb trap of things that look useful unless you've been playing the game a while. That said about the only thing I agree with the op on is that wp needs either light/devotion or universal spwr.

  18. #18
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    Exclamation Prot not great; Prot is useful

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Overall I agree that protection is a steaming pile that needs to be deleted from the game and our memories, it's nothing but a newb trap of things that look useful unless you've been playing the game a while.
    Since most (all?) PREs have junk enhancements, are you able to provide some actual reasons and/or specific examples?

    No one is saying that Protection is the best PrE or even that it is a great PrE, but it is not the worst PrE and it has some use and redeeming features – any objective analysis would show that to be the case. Prot’s USP advantage over WP alone makes it worthy of consideration. Regardless, it serves a different role than War Priest that is replacing it, so since the two can easily coexist, why waste all that previous effort?

  19. #19
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    /signed.

    It is my favorite tree for a couple multi-classed builds I have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  20. #20
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    Since most (all?) PREs have junk enhancements, are you able to provide some actual reasons and/or specific examples?

    No one is saying that Protection is the best PrE or even that it is a great PrE, but it is not the worst PrE and it has some use and redeeming features – any objective analysis would show that to be the case. Prot’s USP advantage over WP alone makes it worthy of consideration. Regardless, it serves a different role than War Priest that is replacing it, so since the two can easily coexist, why waste all that previous effort?
    Sorry but Protection is junk.

    It is not the best, it not great... it is one of the worst, if not THE worst PRE in the game.

    Your big argument in favor of protection is USP.. really? No one in their right mind would waste points in this tree picking up a bunch of junk abilities just for USP.

    Also reasons why it should not co-exist:
    1. Overlapping abilities
    Divine Might, toughness, sanctuary etc exist in warpriest. This causes overlapping and confusion: do they stack? Can I abuse taking toughness in in both trees? etc.

    2. More junk abilities to maintain, more bugs
    Having to maintain a whole tree of useless abilities that can be broken with each update. Results in more complaints, grievances, etc.

    Sorry this tree is just garbage, just flip warpriest to give USP/point and pretend this tree never existed.

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