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  1. #1
    Community Member Silikin's Avatar
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    Default Graceful Death and Rapiers

    Since Rapiers count for most things that normally only work with light weapons (such as the feat Weapon Finesse), does the Tempest Enhancement Graceful Death allow you to use Dex mod for damage instead of Str?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silikin View Post
    Since Rapiers count for most things that normally only work with light weapons (such as the feat Weapon Finesse), does the Tempest Enhancement Graceful Death allow you to use Dex mod for damage instead of Str?
    No, I had thought the same thing, but it doesn't work on my tempest. But I believe that elves get a racial enchancement (top tier, though), that allows rapiers to use dex instead of strength, but I haven't tested that.

  3. #3
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silikin View Post
    Since Rapiers count for most things that normally only work with light weapons (such as the feat Weapon Finesse), does the Tempest Enhancement Graceful Death allow you to use Dex mod for damage instead of Str?
    You can get it from rogue though. They have a different mod that allows all finesseable weapons to use dex/damage. I think you need 3 rogue for it, though.

  4. #4
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    There are 2 different categories which determine if specific feats / conditions are met.

    (size) Small > medium > large

    -and-

    (weight) Light > medium > heavy

    Rapiers fall into light for weight which means they can be finessed, but they are medium for the sake of size which means more penalty for offhand if no feat to reduce (OTWF) - where normally the weapon must be small AND light in the offhand for there not to be more of a penalty.

    Its odd that it doesn't work on tempest because they can opt for scimitars to be considered light as well.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    You can get it from rogue though. They have a different mod that allows all finesseable weapons to use dex/damage. I think you need 3 rogue for it, though.
    And you need to spend a feat on Weapon Finesse.

    Another option is Improved Weapon Finesse from Deepwood Sniper, though it also requires Weapon Finesse. But you don't need to splash 3 rogue.

    So, use up a feat, and neither of these make rapiers light either, so you get an extra -2 if you use a rapier in off hand (without Oversized TWF feat).


    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Rapiers fall into light for weight [...]
    No. Where did you get that idea? [citation needed]



    Weapon finesse: allows the character to use his dexterity modifier instead of the strength modifier when making melee attack rolls with light weapons, rapiers, and unarmed strikes.
    Per exceptio probat regulam, rapiers are not light weapons and unarmed strikes are not light weapons, otherwise there'd be no need to list them there.

  6. #6
    Community Member TopazScorpion's Avatar
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    As chrisdinus7 mentioned, if your are an Elf, there is another option.

    You can choose the Grace (Tier 4) -> Aerenal Grace Race Enhancement.

    Tested successfully.

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