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  1. #1
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    Default I need a "Save" function

    The title pretty much says it all. I used to play regularly with a group of 7 other people. Now we're down to 2 (including me) for one simple reason; frustration over not being able to finish longer quests in a reasonable amount of time.

    We all are pretty busy but we set aside 2 hours a week to play, and we all had VIP accounts. Unfortunately, that meant we could often do only a single adventure, and sometimes not even that. While we love the story telling and richness of the long adventures, we just didn't end up playing them, and after awhile the shorter content gets dry (how many times can you do an orchard run?).

    If we could save the progress of the party it would totally transform the game for us, and we'd get the rest of the guys back I'm sure. We can't be the only ones who would like this. It would even be awesome for soloing.

    Mechanically it could work like this perhaps:

    1) When no combat is ensuing, the party leader can initiate a save.
    2) Saving logs those characters out. We don't want it to become a "redo", or a way to keep retrying a difficult part of the dungeon.
    3) A timer starts on those characters (1 hour? 3 hours?). Until the timer ends they cannot log back in.
    4) Some time later the party logs back in.
    5) The characters go to some kind of lobby or something until everyone is in, or the party leader re-starts the dungeon.
    6) Once restarted characters that don't come back are affected the same way they would be if they left the dungeon; so is the party.
    7) New characters can join the party with all the usual consequences of joining late.
    8) A player can pull their character out of the saved dungeon any time after the timer ends, but they will not be able to re-join the saved state except as a new joiner.

    Anyway, something like that would be huge for us. It would allow people with only a couple hours (or less) at a time to fully enjoy the game.

  2. #2
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    Default A refinement...

    I was just thinking, mechanically, it would make sense for a save point to be deleted as soon as the adventure was restarted. That would absolutely stop people using a save function as "redo".

  3. #3
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Then what would you do when a snotty nosed 12 year old PUG leader decides to intiate a "save" without party consent? Now 5 players are unable to login with their toons for hours.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Then what would you do when a snotty nosed 12 year old PUG leader decides to intiate a "save" without party consent? Now 5 players are unable to login with their toons for hours.
    Building on this concern, what would happen if say the three hour timer was put in place, and you managed to get back in and in the middle of a quest the rest of your group also logs back on? Or even if you were standing around crafting or working on y our auctions? Would the quest fail for the other five, or would you be sucked in, or...what?
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  5. #5
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Yeah, the only way I see a "Save" function working is in solo play.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Then what would you do when a snotty nosed 12 year old PUG leader decides to intiate a "save" without party consent? Now 5 players are unable to login with their toons for hours.
    Well, the mechanics are only a suggestion, not a design document. You raise a good point, and maybe the timer idea doesn't add anything anyway. I was trying to think of a way to avoid do-overs. Maybe there's a better way. One of the guys I used to play with suggested it could be an option when setting up a party to do a dungeon. Then, if you didn't want to let someone lock you out that way you could simply not join those PUGs.

    Since I rarely do PUGs, and usually only play with people I know, I wasn't thinking of that context. Any suggestions for how it could work for more "anonymous" groups?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Building on this concern, what would happen if say the three hour timer was put in place, and you managed to get back in and in the middle of a quest the rest of your group also logs back on? Or even if you were standing around crafting or working on y our auctions? Would the quest fail for the other five, or would you be sucked in, or...what?
    Actually, I think I already addressed this. Characters in a saved party could enter though some kind of lobby (like the Hall of Heros perhaps). Re-entering could be like it's done for any other dungeon, or the party could be re-entered as a group (like what happens inside the Path of Inspiration for example). I suppose a late-comer could come back in through the lobby, with all the usual effects of coming in late (no loot in chests discovered while out; that kind of thing).

    If you really wanted to use the character to do something else, the interface could allow that. In that case though I'd say the character should be booted from the party. Otherwise it would just be a way to get around re-entry penalties.

    There are already game mechanics to handle people joining late, leaving, and coming back in; that can all be left alone. The only new aspect would really be the ability to save and come back to where you left off at a later time.

  8. #8
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    One of the great things about DDO is that its live action with no pause button. I would hate to see it go down this road which would lead to eventually people asking to pause mid combat to heal up, switch weapons, look through your bag for something that a lot of other games allow.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    One of the great things about DDO is that its live action with no pause button. I would hate to see it go down this road which would lead to eventually people asking to pause mid combat to heal up, switch weapons, look through your bag for something that a lot of other games allow.
    I agree 100%. I wouldn't want to see a "pause" or re-do capability either. What I'm driving at is the same ability to run a quest over several sessions that we had in the pen-and-paper version.

  10. #10
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    Default Good idea

    I think something like this would be a great addition to the game... I love to play, but unfortunately real life (often) gets in the way and it turns out the window of opportunity I had to play is not long enough to complete a quest. There are many times when, especially on a quest where myself (as solo) or my party don't really know what we are doing, it may take longer than expected to complete. It's pretty frustrating if I expect I can complete the quest in an hour and then we reach the end of an hour and find we are still not done. What do you do? Either abandon all progress to this point or reschedule my real life to account for the extra 20 minutes I wasn't expecting.

    I think a lot of people here (in the forums) forget that there are all ranges of people playing this game, and all levels of experience. I love exploring each nook and cranny of a quest, completing the optionals and relishing the story. However, when I am under a time gun I can't always do that, especially if I don't know the dungeon.


    At its simplest, all this mechanic would have to do is save the dungeon information in its last state. Then when one person continued the quest, the dungeon would become active again and it could proceed as any other active dungeon. It probably would make sense to have everyone gather at a point before going back in the dungeon... use the same mechanic as the quest goal to "gather your entire party". Then anyone that's not there can get booted from the party and the rest can continue the quest.

    Of course it kind of means you are depending on others to wait for you or re-gather at the specified time, or whatever, but anytime you have a party you are depending on the rest of the group. If you are in a PUG and someone rushes into a room early what do you do? Or a healer/cc player is not doing their "job"?

    Realistically this would probably work best for groups of people that know each other, or for solo play, but it would be a huge benefit for those people that cannot commit to a long adventure (or at least know that they have recourse if things go sideways). I think it would open up the game to a whole new group of people.

  11. #11
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    That is one of funniest things I have ever read and how would a save function work for a multi-player game work sounds like a huge problematic thing to me.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    That is one of funniest things I have ever read and how would a save function work for a multi-player game work sounds like a huge problematic thing to me.
    Lots of multi-player games allow saving (in some older ones it was fundamental), and the developers really have all the things they need. As I said before, it's a suggestion, not a design document, and it might not make sense in pick-up-groups.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by almaniac View Post
    We all are pretty busy but we set aside 2 hours a week to play, and we all had VIP accounts. Unfortunately, that meant we could often do only a single adventure, and sometimes not even that.
    Wait, what quest in DDO takes 2 hours to complete?!

    Compared to every other online game I have played, DDO is loaded with very fast and easily accessible content. In games like WoW during the Vanilla and Burning Crusade eras there was an absolute need for dungeon progress to be saved, because it was not reasonable for all groups to complete it in a given span of time. I can think of absolutely nothing in DDO that has that same need. I can think of very few quests or raids that top an hour of slow play.
    Last edited by RedHost; 09-17-2013 at 03:50 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    Wait, what quest in DDO takes 2 hours to complete?!

    Compared to every other online game I have played, DDO is loaded with very fast and easily accessible content. In games like WoW during the Vanilla and Burning Crusade eras there was an absolute need for dungeon progress to be saved, because it was not reasonable for all groups to complete it in a given span of time. I can think of absolutely nothing in DDO that has that same need. I can think of very few quests or raids that top an hour of slow play.
    Larger dungeons can take hours if you are exploring every nook and cranny, grabbing every optional and picking up every collectible. I did this in my first chains of flame run solo and it took me five hours to complete. It was fun. Zerging has it's place and is fun too, but zerging is not the only way to play.
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  15. #15
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    Something like this would be nice. Maybe a small room behind shrines where you could logout then enter at that point later on. Sort of like the Threnal tent maybe. This could potentially allow for larger dungeons rather the the hallway/boss fight set ups we see.

    I'm not sure what would work but I like larger dungeons & can understand the time limits people have. PUGs could be problematic though. Not sure how to solve that.

  16. #16
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almaniac View Post
    Lots of multi-player games allow saving (in some older ones it was fundamental), and the developers really have all the things they need. As I said before, it's a suggestion, not a design document, and it might not make sense in pick-up-groups.
    There is a differenece between multi player single console, and multi player multi connections.

    Now that said, it would be fairly easy to put in saves. The trick is per quest, the quest items. That would make it a pain, let alone the default would be to respawn all mobs, let alone rares.

    Easily abused for farming MM and other such stuff.

  17. #17
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    I think the mechanic would have to be this -- the party leader puts up the lfm which states it is a mode in which you can all leave and come back.

    When you join this group - you are warned and click okay. If they are going to charge Astral Shards for this feature, they will not have a warning I imagine. (Little Turbine jab... sorry!)

    In this mode, you can click on any ress shrine while alive and it will ask if you want to save and close quest. This will log everyone out. This can only be done by the leader.

    No timer. When you click on your character to log in again... it says "Party Quest Paused. Do you wish to enter waiting room?" Small room, no character functions except chat. Portal into quest at the shrine you left at...Or Party Quest in Progress, meaning the leader has already restarted. You would port in at the shrine you left on and catch up to the group. Similar to if you "DC'd" at that shrine.

    **Once the party leaves that quest, all unlogged characters would be released. - if they clicked to log in it could log in normally - or a pop up message - Paused Quest Completed.... Whatever.

    If you decline to enter waiting room... you abandon the group basically and you are free to move about the game freely again.
    If you are in the waiting room and no one shows up...you can log out, and re log in and abandon if you wish.

    Turbine could charge Astral Shards for this.
    The leader should have to pay the entire amount. They would be the only ones who could continue a quest from the waiting room or directly - this is less complicated. The group members are at their own risk then.

    I think the whole point of this mechanic is for friends or a guild to have a set group play the maximum amount of time. TR groups are an example - if they were committed to staying together, they could use this mechanic to play until someone had to leave and then everyone parks and no cheating! hehe

    Another group that might take advantage are Static Groups - where everyone has agreed to certain rules... always playing on XX and XX time a week for 2 hours each and agreeing not to play those characters otherwise.


    Hope this helps get this in Update 34 --- cause I do not feel it serves enough or would earn them enough. But I could see it working.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by almaniac View Post
    What I'm driving at is the same ability to run a quest over several sessions that we had in the pen-and-paper version.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    Wait, what quest in DDO takes 2 hours to complete?!
    That's what I was wondering, too. That "pick up where you left off last week" functionality already IS in the game, by virtue of "campaigns" (quest packs) being broken up into independent quests. In a way, completing a quest is really just reaching the "save point" of the campaign. Just like you'd run one campaign that tells an overarching story, each quest pack (and now, Sagas, even more broadly) tell an overarching cohesive story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Larger dungeons can take hours if you are exploring every nook and cranny, grabbing every optional and picking up every collectible. I did this in my first chains of flame run solo and it took me five hours to complete. It was fun. Zerging has it's place and is fun too, but zerging is not the only way to play.
    There's a middle ground between zerging and utter completionism. Even completing most optionals and progressing casually, quests shouldn't take more than 45 mins-1 hr. If you want to play uber-completionist, that's fine of course - but just realize that you're an outlier in the playerbase, and don't expect them to implement a special mechanic just so you can log back in tomorrow and finish breaking every single crate in Ruined Halls or looking for the secret rainbow room in Shadow Crypt

    If that's how you like to play, and you really cant even find a 90 minute block of time to devote to a quest, there's always (aptly-named) Explorer areas, which let you explore around at your own pace without ever 'losing progress' like you do if you quit out of a quest.
    Last edited by droid327; 09-17-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    That's what I was wondering, too. That "pick up where you left off last week" functionality already IS in the game, by virtue of "campaigns" (quest packs) being broken up into independent quests. In a way, completing a quest is really just reaching the "save point" of the campaign. Just like you'd run one campaign that tells an overarching story, each quest pack (and now, Sagas, even more broadly) tell an overarching cohesive story.



    There's a middle ground between zerging and utter completionism. Even completing most optionals and progressing casually, quests shouldn't take more than 45 mins-1 hr. If you want to play uber-completionist, that's fine of course - but just realize that you're an outlier in the playerbase, and don't expect them to implement a special mechanic just so you can log back in tomorrow and finish breaking every single crate in Ruined Halls or looking for the secret rainbow room in Shadow Crypt

    If that's how you like to play, and you really cant even find a 90 minute block of time to devote to a quest, there's always (aptly-named) Explorer areas, which let you explore around at your own pace without ever 'losing progress' like you do if you quit out of a quest.
    Well, quests like The Pit or Spies in the House come to mind, especially the first time you play them. I enjoy the fun of going in with people who do not know a quest, and as such its much more like a true adventure. This can take longer. Basically, most of the quests listed as "very long" WILL take more than an hour to play easily, and can top 2 hrs if you are trying to be careful. VoN is another long one, again, if you're new to it and not just rushing through.

    I personally really enjoy the explorer areas for exactly that reason - I can play as long as I have time, and then abandon at any point without feeling I am losing anything. But if I play, say, 5 hours a week, and I have to abandon a quest I have been running for even 1 hour because the end is nowhere in sight, then I am effectively wasting 20% of my play time.

    I may be the outlier, but as I said above - something like this may actually attract a user base that otherwise wouldn't play or stick with it.

  20. #20
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Larger dungeons can take hours if you are exploring every nook and cranny, grabbing every optional and picking up every collectible. I did this in my first chains of flame run solo and it took me five hours to complete. It was fun. Zerging has it's place and is fun too, but zerging is not the only way to play.
    Were you taking five min breaks after killing each mob? Seriously I don't know how that quest could take that long and it's one of the longer quests I can think of.

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    There is no need for this because the longest quests in ddo can be done in under two hours by a flower sniffing group as long as they aren't literally taking a 5 minute break after each kill.

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