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  1. #141
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post

    Yes, or whatever Epic Destiny you prefer in each sphere.

    I like this part, as it gives some flexibility in terms of leveling.


    BTW what news on the "XP Bank" feature at level cap to use towards TRs? To encourage more play at level cap. There is more and more incentive to play 1-20 (and soon 20-28 or 30) but very little to remain at 28 or 30. Can we get an XP bank to bank XP at 28 or 30 to use towards TRs?
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  2. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    BTW what news on the "XP Bank" feature at level cap to use towards TRs? To encourage more play at level cap. There is more and more incentive to play 1-20 (and soon 20-28 or 30) but very little to remain at 28 or 30. Can we get an XP bank to bank XP at 28 or 30 to use towards TRs?
    Obviously I have no official information, but that plan is almost certainly scrapped. The XP Bank was to reward you for the loss of destiny xp. Since now we won't be losing destiny xp, there's no penalty that needs to be made up for with the XP bank.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavroshe View Post
    Just to get this out of the way, I love the idea of calling the "sphere points" "Karma" (Rinnaldo you are a genius)


    As to the whining (yes, you are) about leveling in off destinies just stop. It hurts my head. I would LOVE to level up a fighter while simultaneously getting the benefits for leveling every other class in the game...But that would be silly. The idea that you can glean additional knowledge from activities outside your main focus is both realistic and an awesome game dynamic. Just because I hated geography doesn't mean I'm not better for sitting through the lectures.

    When I play games I'm a 1 toon guy, I want to focus my time on my main only, and Until DDO I only played dwarf barbarian (or the closest to it the game would allow) but with DDO's unique TR system, I branched out and played a fighter, then a paladin, then I got crazy and rocked a bard and cleric life. The last two are VERY counter to my normal play style, it was more difficult and I had a steep learning curve to overcome and that made some things perhaps "less fun" but I have such a better understanding of those classes, what they can do and where they can be utilized I am PERSONALLY a better DDO player for it, and low and behold my toon receives past life's and steps toward completionist that make HIM a better toon for the learning experience. This is brilliant, period.

    (*note, in this paragraph "class" means school, not DDO classes) Nobody requires you to TR, nobody asks you to run off destinies, but if you want the "knowledge and experience" from bard school, you have to GO to bard school. If you want the twists you have to be a scholar in more than 1 class. Even if you take nothing from that class (I.E. a twists from that ED) just the act of taking the class makes you a smarter person.

    SO MUCH THIS! I have played all the EDs on my melee and while some are better than others for her, there is something interesting in each.

    Dont you remember we did most of this junk without ED's and epic levels? A level 20 barb in Fatesinger is equal to or greater than the level 20 barb who did all the content X months ago. Not to mention with the increasing power of our toons, content is MUCH easier. doing EH VON raid? pick a junk desteny for an easy 70-100k. Getting close to a high slayer pay out? grab your junker and take the XP. Basically I'm saying you can bypass a good deal of off-desteny grinding if it really is so "painful" to you.

    Also with new XP ransack whatnot, you have even MORE opportunity to easily level off destenies.

    YOU DO NOT GET THE BENEFITS IF YOU DON'T PUT IN THE WORK! I find it a little upsetting people feel justified in disagreeing with that point. Like Gavroshe was saying, if you don't go to class, you don't get the diploma. what kind of person asks for otherwise? you don't NEED ED's to rock, and even more so you don't need to max them all to rock. If the effort to earn the abilities isnt worth the grind, don't do it.

    -Crabble

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    This is really looking like a good thing, as evidenced by all of the positive responses. Nice to know our input from the 'other' ETR thread was valued.

    ETA: Really awesome, almost every on-topic post is positive. *\o/*
    Indeed.

  5. #145
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Interesting idea.

    Or create a past life enhancement tree and let us spend point in it, but your idea is probably better.

    I'll believe it when I see it, however I have seem many things this day already that fall under that category....
    i actually like this idea actually. i think they could code a heroic tr tree or even an epic tr tree as well that you only gain access from tring. get so many points etc for the tree per tr life. just an idea.

  6. #146
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    On the whole, this new paradigm is one that does not have me planning to depart. (Under the previous proposition, I had assumed I'd quit when U20 hit.) This one sounds much, much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    No matter how many times we explain it, the devs seem wholly unaware that running in off-destiny is actually unfun. A chore that we force ourselves to do.

    They seem to have built almost all of epic play around running in an off destiny: Epic Feats from a sphere other than your primary one, Epic TR points from a sphere other than your primary one, and of course, fate points.

    I like everything about this game, heck I even like Threnal, with one exception: Playing for even 1 minute outside of my chosen destiny. Much like my wizard would not like to be forced to use the barbarian enhancement trees, but instead prefers to use the wizard trees.

    I truly do not think they are aware how unfun leveling off destinies is because the sum total of their personal experience with doing so involves talking to that trainer dude in the dojo.
    I agree with you and Matt. Running in the off destinies is not the same fun level as running in the primary destiny. I, like many people, know well the meaning of "warrior of Dun'robar, attack!". But the only reason I know it is the need to fill out off destinies. I gained my primary destiny by just running quests like usual. Even a couple of the off destinies that are similar I could earn while running quests. The off destinies that were way off, like arcane destinies on a melee character, I just farmed dun'robar because they were not fun to run in.
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  7. #147
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabbadabba View Post
    SO MUCH THIS! I have played all the EDs on my melee and while some are better than others for her, there is something interesting in each.

    Dont you remember we did most of this junk without ED's and epic levels? A level 20 barb in Fatesinger is equal to or greater than the level 20 barb who did all the content X months ago. Not to mention with the increasing power of our toons, content is MUCH easier. doing EH VON raid? pick a junk desteny for an easy 70-100k. Getting close to a high slayer pay out? grab your junker and take the XP. Basically I'm saying you can bypass a good deal of off-desteny grinding if it really is so "painful" to you.

    Also with new XP ransack whatnot, you have even MORE opportunity to easily level off destenies.

    YOU DO NOT GET THE BENEFITS IF YOU DON'T PUT IN THE WORK! I find it a little upsetting people feel justified in disagreeing with that point. Like Gavroshe was saying, if you don't go to class, you don't get the diploma. what kind of person asks for otherwise? you don't NEED ED's to rock, and even more so you don't need to max them all to rock. If the effort to earn the abilities isnt worth the grind, don't do it.

    -Crabble
    I have no problem leveling through an off destiny for access to a twist, but I have a problem leveling through off destinies just for fate points when I wont even twist anything out of it. that is not my kind of fun.

  8. #148
    Community Member Hawkwier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I have no problem leveling through an off destiny for access to a twist, but I have a problem leveling through off destinies just for fate points when I wont even twist anything out of it. that is not my kind of fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I am looking forward to providing everyone with the design details of proposed changes to the Reincarnation system in the coming weeks. Before we start rolling out the fact sheets and dev discussions, I intend to get in front of some of the greater concerns that players (and developers) have raised regarding our prior proposal for Epic Reincarnation.

    To get to the point: We have really changed direction from what was previously proposed; and I for one am very pleased that the systems team has taken that direction from 'power from pain' to something more palatable, like 'rewarded for efforts.'
    • Epic reincarnation will require level cap and "points" (TBD) in a "Destiny Sphere" (TBD). This will allow a character to reincarnate from Epic cap to level 20, with equivalent heroic XP.
    • Doing so will not alter your earned Epic Destinies or Epic Destiny XP, and you can alternatively take a second step and reincarnate your Heroic levels to 1 and benefit from both a Heroic and Epic Past Life [PL] feat.
    • As you level Epic Destinies you will gain points toward Epic Reincarnation in the active Destiny Sphere (e.g. Arcane, Divine, Martial, Primal). Furthermore, there is plan to grant retroactive progress for those of you working on your Epic Destinies today.

    Again, this is a departure from the previously shared proposal. The goals we set out to accomplish are still being met with these more generous alterations to the Epic Reincarnation design and I hope to share lots of detail changes in the next week (Soon TM).

    ~E

    First off, this looks like good news!

    I don't TR as a rule but epic TR might prove of interest...

    Anyway, you asked for suggestions for reward. How about letting us select any feat from the classes in a sphere without prereqs?

    Might be OP but we are talking about earning a ton of exp to qualify.

    Also, while you're about it, how about another destiny to make capping them all worthwhile from a fate-point perspective?

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I have no problem leveling through an off destiny for access to a twist, but I have a problem leveling through off destinies just for fate points when I wont even twist anything out of it. that is not my kind of fun.
    A grind is inherently "not fun", but what makes it worthwhile is the payout, be it loot, twists, fate points or otherwise. If you wan't the Quiver of Alacrity you need to grind out Abbot, asking for it to drop in House of Rusted Chains is nonsensical. The quiver, the fate points, and the twists are all luxury items you pay for with sweat.

    It's never "fun" when an item you want is in a quest you don't, but you make choices how you want to spend your time. If payout is better than the grind (in your opinion), get to it. For me, Fate Points were worth playing in other destinies no question.

    I'm not at all saying the new EPL system needs to follow the exact same format as off destinies, But your argument boils down to "I don't want to do what I need to to get the things I want".

    Seriously, at least off destinies have a static, guaranteed success point. If I could get that bleepin quiver for ONLY the amount of time I spent tipping my off destinies to 5 I would be way ahead. Especially if I knew (only x more quests till I have it for sure!) Not to mention I can level off destinies on ANYTHING, vs standing around Necro for an abbot to fill/fail/refill/complete.

    (I know some people/guilds can nofail Abbot in a flash, I'm not so lucky, but I only use that as an example because in MY toon's life Abbot has been the biggest time sink to date. yet I'll still hit 20 completions each life, wonder why God hates me, and start the grind again. Because I feel its worth the time.)

  10. #150
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    I'd prefer to not see epic TR become another case of numeric inflation the way that heroic TR is for the most part. Let's have them grant something more interesting than that!

    Primal: Your successful attacks on a roll of 19-20/17-20/15-20 trigger a Vampirism effect. Whenever a creature fails its save against one of your spells, you have a 10/20/30% chance of gaining temporary HP equal to your character level.

    Martial: The cooldowns on your tactical feats and activated attacks (granted by class features, enhancements, or epic destiny abilities) are reduced by 1/2/3 seconds, and you have a 5/10/15% chance to regenerate an action boost on a vorpal hit.

    Divine: Whenever you heal another character with a single-target spell or ability, you regain 10/20/30% of the amount you healed for in HP. Your melee attacks and damaging spells cause evil creatures you strike to take a -1/2/3 penalty to fortification and saves, stacking up to 3 times (some language here about how long a stack lasts, not triggering more than once every X unity of time, etc...).

    Arcane: Your spells gain additional effects on criticals: Ice spells cause the Freezing Ice condition for 2/4/6 seconds; fire spells cause 2/4/6 stacks of Inferno (see AA Inferno Shot), lightning spells <do something>; acid spells cause 2/4/6 stacks of <something similar to Inferno>; force spells knock affected creatures prone for 6 seconds on a failed save vs. the spell's DC (or DC appropriate for its level and type) +1/2/3 on the DC; negative energy spells cause a slowing of a creature's attacks by 5/10/15% for 6 seconds; sonic spells cause creatures to be stunned for 3/6/9 seconds.

    Some of these may be too strong, or too narrow, perhaps, but I'd rather see stuff along these lines than the stuff like "gain X bonus to Y statistic." Sure, we all want more healing amp, attack, damage, AC, PRR, dodge, spellpower, and DCs, but the game doesn't scale well to the inflated numbers we have now, let alone adjust to accommodate characters at the different ends of the spectrum as far as investment goes.
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  11. #151
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I'd prefer to not see epic TR become another case of numeric inflation the way that heroic TR is for the most part. Let's have them grant something more interesting than that!

    Primal: Your successful attacks on a roll of 19-20/17-20/15-20 trigger a Vampirism effect. Whenever a creature fails its save against one of your spells, you have a 10/20/30% chance of gaining temporary HP equal to your character level.
    0 carrot, absolutely worthless. Maybe supreme vampirism 100% chance of healing character level hp per hit not effected by hamp.
    Martial: The cooldowns on your tactical feats and activated attacks (granted by class features, enhancements, or epic destiny abilities) are reduced by 1/2/3 seconds, and you have a 5/10/15% chance to regenerate an action boost on a vorpal hit.
    meh wouldn't motivate me to get them except for some kind of epic completionist feat.
    Divine: Whenever you heal another character with a single-target spell or ability, you regain 10/20/30% of the amount you healed for in HP. Your melee attacks and damaging spells cause evil creatures you strike to take a -1/2/3 penalty to fortification and saves, stacking up to 3 times (some language here about how long a stack lasts, not triggering more than once every X unity of time, etc...).
    maybe
    Arcane: Your spells gain additional effects on criticals: Ice spells cause the Freezing Ice condition for 2/4/6 seconds; fire spells cause 2/4/6 stacks of Inferno (see AA Inferno Shot), lightning spells <do something>; acid spells cause 2/4/6 stacks of <something similar to Inferno>; force spells knock affected creatures prone for 6 seconds on a failed save vs. the spell's DC (or DC appropriate for its level and type) +1/2/3 on the DC; negative energy spells cause a slowing of a creature's attacks by 5/10/15% for 6 seconds; sonic spells cause creatures to be stunned for 3/6/9 seconds.
    My only worry is that your force dc. mass frog and hellball show the devs have no idea what useful dc's are because those epic feat spells can not ever be made to hit reliably no matter how much wis/int/cha you get for ee.

  12. #152
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    So many people are going yay, epic tr's but now you see why they are phasing token purchase heart of woods and other similar items out as then they make it so you have to purchase any tring item(from the ddo store) so they make more money and they likely will make any epic tr's an earned or purchased bonus

  13. #153
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithavenger View Post
    So many people are going yay, epic tr's but now you see why they are phasing token purchase heart of woods and other similar items out as then they make it so you have to purchase any tring item(from the ddo store) so they make more money and they likely will make any epic tr's an earned or purchased bonus
    Make em store only and it's still better than the last etr idea they had, I'll just have to favor farm more to etr then.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Make em store only and it's still better than the last etr idea they had, I'll just have to favor farm more to etr then.
    But by making it favor farmed, that also requires more packs purchased, per account so it is still a money thing yet they do nothing to justify the money we put in

  15. #155
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithavenger View Post
    But by making it favor farmed, that also requires more packs purchased, per account so it is still a money thing yet they do nothing to justify the money we put in
    I already have all the packs, it literally will not mean a dime more from me if they do it this way.

  16. #156
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    I'd like to see extra Twists of Fate available, even if they are only tier 1. Extra Fate points would be useless without extra twists.

    One important question: Are the Epic Past Life feats granted at 1st level, or 20th level?

    Geoff.

  17. #157
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Autogrant first please, feats are precious.

    Well, if they did stack completionist feat for multiple completionist, it would be more reasonable to assume something like:
    +2 ~ Completionist earned once
    Upgrade to +3 ~ Completionist earned twice
    Upgrade to +4 Completionist earned thrice


    Epic Completionist probably should take a different approach such as:
    Extra Twist Slot tier two ~ Epic Completionist earned once
    Upgrade Extra Twist Slot to tier three ~ Epic Completionist earned twice
    Upgrade Extra Twist Slot to tier four ~ Epic Completionist earned thrice
    I might be willing to accept a boost to heroic completionist such as is described but only for the skill portion of the feat. I fear that any increase to the ability score portion of the feat will be too powerful. The only other feats that increase ability scores are epic feats that only increase a single ability score a single point each time the feat is taken. If the completionist feat is made an auto grant It will be game-breaking.

    I am extremely wary of extra twists of fate particularly tier 4 twists. I think under no circumstances should another tier 4 twist be made available except by spending fate points. I would limit the absolute maximum of a new twist to what you have fate points for or tier 2 if fate points do not need to be spent.
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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    ,,,,hellball show the devs have no idea what useful dc's are because those epic feat spells can not ever be made to hit reliably no matter how much wis/int/cha you get for ee.
    Fawngate uses the cha version of Hellball.
    She is a favored soul whose base charisma is 09.
    She kills large groups of EE rogue typeswith bladebarrier combined with multiple castings of Hellball.
    They never evade it, ever.

    My opinion is that they decided the DC was too low, and they removed the save,
    particularly since with the save it was a rather expensive poor preforming spell.

    WAI?
    I hope so, if it every gets changed, Fawngate will probably return to Forced Escape quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Book_O_Dragons View Post
    I might be willing to accept a boost to heroic completionist such as is described but only for the skill portion of the feat. I fear that any increase to the ability score portion of the feat will be too powerful. The only other feats that increase ability scores are epic feats that only increase a single ability score a single point each time the feat is taken. If the completionist feat is made an auto grant It will be game-breaking.
    Honestly considering Fawngate get nothing extra atm for triple completionist, +2 ability and +4 skills would be nice treat, particularly if it was auto granted.
    I am extremely wary of extra twists of fate particularly tier 4 twists. I think under no circumstances should another tier 4 twist be made available except by spending fate points. I would limit the absolute maximum of a new twist to what you have fate points for or tier 2 if fate points do not need to be spent.
    I could go with fate points spent on it, but I sure would like to see two more slot available to earn somehow.
    A lot of the really nice twists are tier one, most players if given a fourth or fifth twist that required fate points to unlock, would put tier one twists into them.

    Many players would like to see something like, single epic tr opens up a fourth twist slot.
    {A nod to those that TR rarely.}
    Epic Completionist granting a fifth twist slot that would be nice.
    {A nod to those that TR lots.}
    The math on Fate Points would balance things out fairly well.

    Of course that leaves out multiple epic completionist.


    A small bonus for multiple completionist types would be fine with me.
    Nothing game breaking needed here, just enjoying myself anyway.
    A small tribute would be cool, but I'll take whatever size bone they throw.
    My main concern is lack of space to take past life type feats.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 09-15-2013 at 12:41 AM.

  19. #159
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithavenger View Post
    So many people are going yay, epic tr's but now you see why they are phasing token purchase heart of woods and other similar items out as then they make it so you have to purchase any tring item(from the ddo store) so they make more money and they likely will make any epic tr's an earned or purchased bonus
    whatever they do, it will be store and earned TR item in game just like hearts of wood are for heroic. that's how they do things by offering both. you will either choose to grind for some kind of epic TR heart of wood or you can buy one. store only = P2W and DDO isn't a straight up P2W game as long as they offer choices like that.

  20. #160
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    I'd like to see extra Twists of Fate available, even if they are only tier 1. Extra Fate points would be useless without extra twists.

    One important question: Are the Epic Past Life feats granted at 1st level, or 20th level?

    Geoff.
    extra twists and/or be able to go higher up in tiers for twists is what I would like to see.

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