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  1. #61
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    1) Major Changes like this NOT appearing in the Release notes is sloppy, stupid, incompetent, and unacceptable.

    2) Nerfing Ranger Spellpower across the board, which affects all levels of Rangers including lowbies, in order to control some different ability, cocoon, which is only available to epic level characters, is sloppy, stupid, incompetent, and unacceptable. Emphasis on Stupid.

    3) Through all my complaining over the Stupid Fudging Spit your team has done, I've never seriously considered cutting off the money, until now. Get your act together.
    Last edited by BOgre; 09-14-2013 at 07:11 PM.

  2. #62
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    It's unacceptable that the Devotion changes were not captured in the release notes.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

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  3. #63
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    1) Major Changes like this NOT appearing in the Release notes is sloppy, stupid, incompetent, and unacceptable.
    Definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    2) Nerfing Ranger Spellpower across the board, which affects all levels of Rangers including lowbies, in order to control some different ability, cocoon, which is only available to epic level characters, is sloppy, stupid, incompetent, and unacceptable. Emphasis on Stupid.
    Definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    3) I've never seriously considered cutting off the money, until now. Get your act together.
    Often they act like an unexperienced staff, this change to DWS doesn't lower reputation I have of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    It's unacceptable that the Devotion changes were not captured in the release notes.
    Definitely.

  4. #64
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    You know, I have a 25 ranger AA and I have a currently 16th level (with 17th banked) multi that will be 12 ranger/7 monk/1 rogue at level 20 and this hurts both of them. I haven't checked these changes out, but it sounds like the devotion has been moved to tiers 3 and/or 4.

    On my pure ranger, I don't have the AP available to go that deep into DWS. I had just enough to snag the devotion, the lesser vigor (self only), and damage boost. I already eschewed the elemental imbues on him. Not having to go very deep into DWS enabled me to put enough into Tempest to make him competent with melee weapons (scimitars).

    On my multi-class, I'm already at a lower healing amplification than before the update (granted, 5% less, but it is still less). The ranger devotion enabled me to off-set that. I don't have space in the build for metamagic. Being that he'll only be level 12 ranger, then he's only going to have Cure Moderate Wounds. With the ranger devotion and the healing amplification, I was able to get about the same effect as casting CSW or, possibly, CCW, which made self-healing practical. I also took the lesser vigor (self only) from DWS and, even with devotion and healing amp, it still only heals for about 11 to 15 per tick, which is nice, but mostly useful while running to the next fight.

    Ranger Devotion is a core class ability. This needs to be made accessible to all ranger prestiges. It is completely unreasonable to put the devotion so high up in one prestige as to preclude either of the other two prestiges being able to take it without making a major sacrifice! This is a sacrifice that was never required before. You need to fix the actual disease - cocoon - rather than treating the symptom of the disease.
    Sarlona: Acaat || Ahchuykak || Anaiadeia || Atlacoya || Camalos || Coyopa || Gwylelwiel || Imahidden || Kisin || Pukuh || Temporarily

  5. #65
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    Why am I not surprised...

    /sigh
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  6. #66
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    1) Major Changes like this NOT appearing in the Release notes is sloppy, stupid, incompetent, and unacceptable.

    2) Nerfing Ranger Spellpower across the board, which affects all levels of Rangers including lowbies, in order to control some different ability, cocoon, which is only available to epic level characters, is sloppy, stupid, incompetent, and unacceptable. Emphasis on Stupid.

    3) Through all my complaining over the Stupid Fudging Spit your team has done, I've never seriously considered cutting off the money, until now. Get your act together.
    You act as though you are surprised.

    I expected this. DWS was worthless, and no one was putting points into it beyond the devotion enhancements. Whoever designed this abortion tree got mad that no one bothered with it, and out of spite, removed the only thing people used from it, shoving what little pittance they tossed to us into a higher tier to "force" us to invest in such a poorly thought out (even by the standards of the NGE) tree. Surprise, now no one will invest anything into it.

    I just saved 7 ap. I would say I've also saved money, but since I quit buying points after U14, I don't think that threat matters much anymore.
    It was the night before Hogswatch....

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  7. #67
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    For anyone who's still not clear about what's happening.
















  8. #68
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    For anyone who's still not clear about what's happening.
    Wow, that is disappointing. Looking at my 25 ranger, I can get 60 devotion based on the things I've chosen from that tree. I guess I can live with -15 devotion on that character. On my multi-class, I have to spend 17 points in the human racial tree, 25 points (at a minimum) in the Tempest tree, 7 in Ninja Spy, 11 in Shintao, 4 in Mechanic, which comes to a total of 64. This leaves 16 AP for the Deepwood Sniper tree and this change will eat them all, which is TEN more AP than I had planned - and even then I am going to be down 25 positive spellpower compared to what I have now. Originally, I was planning on dropping those points back into the Tempest tree. This change is better than putting the positive spellpower higher up in the tree, but it is still a bunch of b*******!
    Sarlona: Acaat || Ahchuykak || Anaiadeia || Atlacoya || Camalos || Coyopa || Gwylelwiel || Imahidden || Kisin || Pukuh || Temporarily

  9. #69
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    I don't understand the whining. The positive spell power is still there for the ranger. Awesome 30 for a level 1 ranger - can any other 1 level dip get you more? Great 40 for level 3 ranger. Up to 90 for capstoned DWS, with 11 AP spent for devotion. Plus heal as class skill.

    Compare this to warchanter.
    Core: 0 devotion
    T1: 0 devotion
    T2: 12 devotion for 9! AP spent/wasted
    T3: 12 devotion for 3 AP spent
    T4: 12 devotion for 3 AP spent

    Grand total of 36 for 15 AP spent. Heal not a class skill.

    If anything, there is still room for nerfing. Why has DWS more devotion than any other PRE?
    Last edited by cru121; 09-18-2013 at 02:15 AM.

  10. #70
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    @cru121,

    I was going to try to explain it to you, but I decided that if you don't already understand it, then there is nothing I can say that will improve the situation for you.
    Sarlona: Acaat || Ahchuykak || Anaiadeia || Atlacoya || Camalos || Coyopa || Gwylelwiel || Imahidden || Kisin || Pukuh || Temporarily

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    I don't understand the whining. The positive spell power is still there for the ranger. Awesome 30 for a level 1 ranger - can any other 1 level dip get you more? Great 40 for level 3 ranger. Up to 90 for capstoned DWS, with 11 AP spent for devotion. Plus heal as class skill.
    Yeah, awesome, except my tempest can go suck rocks.

  12. #72
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    I don't understand the whining. The positive spell power is still there for the ranger. Awesome 30 for a level 1 ranger - can any other 1 level dip get you more? Great 40 for level 3 ranger. Up to 90 for capstoned DWS, with 11 AP spent for devotion. Plus heal as class skill.

    Compare this to warchanter.
    Core: 0 devotion
    T1: 0 devotion
    T2: 12 devotion for 9! AP spent/wasted
    T3: 12 devotion for 3 AP spent
    T4: 12 devotion for 3 AP spent

    Grand total of 36 for 15 AP spent. Heal not a class skill.

    If anything, there is still room for nerfing. Why has DWS more devotion than any other PRE?
    Here I'll make it simple

    DWS: AWESOME!!!!
    AA: Boned
    Tempest: Boned
    Anything less than pure: Boned
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #73
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael4h View Post
    You act as though you are surprised.

    I expected this. DWS was worthless, and no one was putting points into it beyond the devotion enhancements. Whoever designed this abortion tree got mad that no one bothered with it, and out of spite, removed the only thing people used from it, shoving what little pittance they tossed to us into a higher tier to "force" us to invest in such a poorly thought out (even by the standards of the NGE) tree. Surprise, now no one will invest anything into it.

    I just saved 7 ap. I would say I've also saved money, but since I quit buying points after U14, I don't think that threat matters much anymore.
    I would not be shocked if vanity was the reason for this change. We have the same thing with new loot versus old.

    We should not be forced into a heavy investment on a PRE tree most of us don't want to get what should be a basic feature of the class.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 09-18-2013 at 04:43 PM.

  14. #74
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We should not be forced into a heavy investment on a PRE tree most of us don't want to get what should be a basic feature of the class.
    Can you say Class Tree? Of course you can. Can 'they'?

  15. #75
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    I thought some of you are sane people. Overreacting much?

  16. #76
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    I thought some of you are sane people. Overreacting much?
    Not really. The point being that devotion/positive spellpower is a basic ability of the ranger class and has been for many years in this game. Prior to the enhancement pass, you could get 80 devotion. After the enhancement pass, you can get 75, but you have to invest in the DWS tree. With it being on tier 1, the investment was not very large. Now, the investment is going to be massive OR you are going to have considerably less positive spell power than you can currently. Finally, the fact is that non-DWS rangers rely on the ability to heal themselves, just as DWS rangers do. Thus, 75 or 80 spell power should be available to Tempest and AA rangers, as well, and not just DWS rangers.
    Sarlona: Acaat || Ahchuykak || Anaiadeia || Atlacoya || Camalos || Coyopa || Gwylelwiel || Imahidden || Kisin || Pukuh || Temporarily

  17. #77
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    before EP, ranger 10 could invest 10 AP for 80 devotion
    after u19, ranger 1 could invest 6 AP for 75 devotion plus ~40 with minimum investment from heal skill (plus potentially 10-20 from AA plus stacking devotion from other classes)
    after u19.2, ranger 1 can still have more devotion than ranger 10 pre-EP

  18. #78
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    as long as if i put effort into getting my devotion im fine. took me some work to get my ranger to 280 devotion. but seem right to me as it is now. it's almost like ranger should have a 4th tree tho. almost seems like it needs "heal" branch a "sneak" branch and something like "crit" branch.. something like that. but i work hard for my devotion ****** dont make me respec again.

  19. #79
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    This sucks big time but i am kinda not surprised... It was 75 spellpower as Tier 1 and 5 AP.. Not even Cleric has that. Ranger devotion Pre enhancement pass didn't allow you to do this with 1 ranger. AFAIR it would only allow you 20 spellpower at 1 ranger, correct me if im wrong.

  20. #80
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Nobody is complaining about the one splashes that was OP and bound to be changed what were complaining about is the fact that ONLY DWS get devotion where-as AA and tempest do not...Devotion is base class feature of ranger and shouldn't be limited to one tree...I'd say do one of two things:

    1. Add 25 Devotion to each tree tier 1, this limits multi-classers as you can only have 6 trees in total and rangers don't have to invest much it its other 2 trees to grab it

    or

    2. Do the same thing as DWS in AA and Tempest just randomly shove in the devotion boost in random enhancements than make it so it only applies the highest boost (so if DWS is giving 20 devotion and tempest is granting 35 you'd be getting 35)


    The first option imo is better because it costs less development time and would be less confusing as it wouldn't need to have a random exception compared to the rest of the prestiges that isn't noted anywhere (I'm looking at you Kensai and your misleading tiers)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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