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  1. #21
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    Have it as a one-rank, tier1 enhancement giving 25 spellpower each in all three ranger trees.

    That way, a ranger can get 75 spell power easily, while a multi-classed build might sacrifice something because you can only get six trees.
    I'd agree to this. It makes it still easily avail to rangers (w/o wasting too much AP) whilst making it less ridiculous for 1splashes
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #22
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    I am not surprised that they stealth nerf, but can't stealth fix. My former WF Juggernaut had found a new life as a 16 ranger/2monk/2arti. With that extra positive spell power, he could heal himself reliably with not only cocoon but with cure serious wounds too. Being WF, and having a penalty to positive healing already, he was kind of screwed. Being able to net extra spell power that wasn't equipment based that stacked with stuff was AWESOME. He almost felt like a fleshy! But now I guess I'll have to TR him so he's not so screwed. Or shelve him. Along with half of my other 13 characters that I don't even feel like bothering with.


    A friend of mine, who no longer plays because of stuff just like this, would just say this is TTB; Typical Turbine Behaviour.

  3. #23
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    While Turbine may have put the points in the wrong tree making it completely unavailable to ranger splashes is ridiculous. An 8 ranger splash has heals, Empower Healing as an option...but they'll now have limited/no options for raising their devotion? As mentioned earlier, rangers used to have plenty of devotion available in the old system and at that level of splash as well. This is a flat-out nerf to anyone that stays pure as a ranger or dips in heavily and it's aimed at dealing with small dips into ranger.

    I definitely like the solution of splitting the devotion evenly between all 3 ranger trees.

    If that's not an option how about making devotion an add-on for every core ranger ability. 8 points of positive spell power in each one of the Ranger core abilities would lead to 128 devotion on a pure ranger that went deep enough into each tree to get to the level 18 ability and took the level 20 ability in one tree. That said, that's highly unlikely and might not even be possible from an AP standpoint. On my current 8 ranger splash that takes 2 trees to the level 6 level it would be 48 devotion...quite a nerf from live but then getting 75 devotion from 5ap was a bit OP. 2 ranger splashes would be able to get 8 devotion per tree they selected. I think that's a reasonable solution as well.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  4. #24
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It might be acceptable if ANY bottom-rung of a ranger tree gave 10 positive spell-power, non-stacking to prevent splash-sploiting.

    Just don't force us to invest heavily in deepwood.
    QFT

    Splitting the devotion along all ranger core enhancement is what needs to be done. 10 might be a bit too much and any thing lower then 5 is is unacceptable some where between 5-10 would be just right IMO.

  5. #25
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    A friend of mine, who no longer plays because of stuff just like this, would just say this is TTB; Typical Turbine Behaviour.
    "F.... this game" was what 5 of my guildies said last night when we heard about this. We're just getting sick of stupid and needless nerfs to characters that don't need it.

    Hey Turbine . . . you want to look at something over-powered look at monks and kensais . . . it's not rangers.

  6. #26
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    "F.... this game" was what 5 of my guildies said last night when we heard about this. We're just getting sick of stupid and needless nerfs to characters that don't need it.

    Hey Turbine . . . you want to look at something over-powered look at monks and kensais . . . it's not rangers.
    Monks require purchasing. They aren't getting nerfed :P

  7. #27
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Monks require purchasing. They aren't getting nerfed :P
    Ain't that the truth, soon it'll cost an astral shard to cast heal.

  8. #28
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Ain't that the truth, soon it'll cost an astral shard to cast heal.
    No, it will costs bards an astral shard to add heal to their enhancement pass, because "screwdabards".

    And, when added, it will also make bard songs take longer to sing.

    And something else will break with handwraps.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  9. #29
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Should have known this would be too good to last
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  10. #30
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Monks require purchasing. They aren't getting nerfed :P
    ummm...shintao monks got a massive nerfs, ninja spy abilities are almost all bugged and hensin mystic "spells" do so little damage it pointless....oh yea clear favoritism to the pay class.

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    No, it will costs bards an astral shard to add heal to their enhancement pass, because "screwdabards".
    Bards DO get heal its their capstone.

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    And something else will break with handwraps.
    Heh so true, anyone know why the devs coded Handwraps differently than every other weapon in the game?
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-13-2013 at 10:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #31
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Also bard DO get heal its their capstone.
    This is known, you missed the sarcasm ... whereby getting heal for free is so game breaking that it will now cost an astral shard. ;-)

    And of course, any change to the game INVARIABLY hacks up something with Bards and handwraps. When they finally add polearms to the game, you do know what will happen right? Something will break with handwraps, and likely fascinate will take twice as long to sing (and enthrall plain won't work) - and of course Warchanters won't be able to be proficient with them.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    ummm...shintao monks got a massive nerfs, ninja spy abilities are almost all bugged and hensin mystic "spells" do so little damage it pointless....oh yea clear favoritism to the pay class.
    Yeah, an easily acquirable 75+ DC on a 6 second cool down instakill is a serious nerf.

    If Turbine ever actually fixed all the problems with handwraps, we could no longer deny that monks are truly p2w.



    On Topic: pointless nerfs are pointless
    Last edited by mute_mayhem; 09-13-2013 at 11:46 AM.

  13. #33
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mute_mayhem View Post
    Yeah, an easily acquirable 75+ DC on a 6 second cool down instakill is a serious nerf.
    Insta-kills aren't exactly limited to monks.. as far as F2P classes go Assassins can Assassinate, Sorc/Wiz have FoD/Disintegrate/Phantasmal Killer, Clerics have Slay Living, Barbarians have their Greataxe (trust me in full retard dps mode it may as well be an insta-kill :P)

    To clarify I'm not saying Monks aren't a powerful class I'm just saying there not wicked OP or anything their just good at what they do...my Monk is plenty jealous about the massive numbers barbs can produce...the various effect the spellcasters can pull off that my furture Henshin Mystic will only dream about,etc,etc. and all the while I'm playing the buggiest class in the game.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-13-2013 at 01:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    Have it as a one-rank, tier1 enhancement giving 25 spellpower each in all three ranger trees.

    That way, a ranger can get 75 spell power easily, while a multi-classed build might sacrifice something because you can only get six trees.
    This is an inspired solution, an elegant use of tree mechanics. Please, devs, take heed.

  15. #35
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Before U19, any Ranger had the option to get 80 Devotion with as few as 4 APs.
    If by "4 APs" you mean "10 APs" and by "any Ranger" you mean "any build with at least 10 rgr lvls," then I agree with you. Otherwise you must be describing some MC trickery.

    It's obvious Turbine wanted to nerf all the front-loaded Spellpower enhs to make caster splashes less OP in U19. Letting you take 75 Pos Spellpower for 6 APs with a rgr splash was a ridiculously dumb oversight. [EDIT: IIRC, the DWS Pos Spellpower was a late addition in response to the complaints about no Pos Spellpower for rgrs; this is what happens when you make changes w/out enough time to playtest properly.] The simplest solution would be to give rgrs (and pallies) 1 Pos Spellpower for every AP spent in every class tree. You would need to spend all 80 APs in rgr to replicate the Spellpower we got pre-U19; but since Heal skill now boosts Pos Spellpower and rgrs have plenty of skill pts to spare, the reality is we should be roughly on par or a bit ahead. This nerfs the massively OP Spellpower bonus that a rgr splash can currently get without penalizing pure rgrs or pigeon-holing them into DWS.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 09-13-2013 at 02:33 PM.

  16. #36
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Insta-kills aren't exactly limited to monks.. as far as F2P classes go Assassins can Assassinate, Sorc/Wiz have FoD/Disintegrate/Phantasmal Killer, Clerics have Slay Living, Barbarians have their Greataxe (trust me in full retard dps mode it may as well be an insta-kill :P)

    To clarify I'm not saying Monks aren't a powerful class I'm just saying there not wicked OP or anything their just good at what they do...my Monk is plenty jealous about the massive numbers barbs can produce...the various effect the spellcasters can pull off that my furture Henshin Mystic will only dream about,etc,etc. and all the while I'm playing the buggiest class in the game.
    If your monk isn't over-powered the problem exists between your keyboard and chair.

  17. #37
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    @Unbongwah: The changes the devs made requires ranger (even single class ones) to invest heavily in DWS its NOT a good change...the suggestion of 25 Spellpower in each tree is the best idea.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-13-2013 at 03:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  18. #38
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    @Unbongwah: The changes the devs made requires ranger (even single class ones) to invest heavily in DWS its NOT a good change...the suggestion of 25 Spellpower in each tree is the best idea.
    /agreed

  19. #39
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    The changes the devs made requires ranger (even single class ones) to invest heavily in DWS its NOT a good change
    I agree, which is why I suggested "1 AP = 1 Pos Spellpower" for every rgr tree. I'm not wild about the Spellpower changes in general, but at least that would be consistent with other casters w/out forcing you to put pts into one PrE. [I thought the old system was too front-loaded, but the solution should've been to flatten the AP-to-Spellpower cost, not force you to spend more APs in the caster PrEs. But Turbine neglected to consult me on the Enh changes... ]

  20. #40
    Community Member Willan's Avatar
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    This is a cut and paste from my thread in General Discussion but I think I have come up with a pretty good suggestion regarding Devotion for both Paladin and Ranger

    Before the enhancement update both Paladin and Ranger had the option for 80 devotion in their class enhancement trees with no requirements. After the update Paladins can only acquire devotion from the Sacred Defender tree and only as many points are spent. The Sacred Defender tree was changed to mostly only function with shields leaving DPS Paladins without any devotion. Now you are doing the same thing to Ranger by forcing most of the devotion into Core DWS abilities. On my melee Tempest ranger I do not have the points to spend in DWS period.

    If the change was made to keep 1 or 2 Ranger splash from having too many benefits then simply add devotion to the tier 3/4 Stat in each Ranger AND Paladin tree. This would mean that you would need to splash 3 or 4 levels of Paladin/Ranger and spend a minimum of 12 points in a tree to get 40 devotion with 22 points required for the full 80. Stating that the heal skill is there to make up the different in devotion is not plausible since Paladins are a 2 skill point per level class.

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