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  1. #1
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    Default Optimal Shiradi Wiz single target rotation?

    Greetings,

    I have been using MM SLA, Boulder Toss, MM, Wiz PL MM, FM as my single target lineup - casting the first one in the lineup thats ready at any time.
    I then read that someone else uses Scorcing Ray as well because MM SLA, MM, FM alone leaves a gap.

    That left me wondering if adding Scorcing Ray would be a (noticable) improvement - or if casting it would simply delay casting another MM slightly thus cancelling the advantage. More generally I am wondering which rotation is really optimal in terms of getting the most hits/min so I decided to run a small preliminary test. I dont claim that the size of my sample is sufficient but for now it will serve to open the debate. I realise that this is nerding so no need to tell me if you think so.

    I set myself up not in Shiradi (to avoid the extra procs) using a macro made with AutoHotkey to cast spells and using dclog to get the data into a file to examine afterwards. Neither Autohotkey nor dclog are needed for this but they sure made things easier. I then found a stationary target and blasted away with a specific lineup of spells. I only counted number of hits - not raw damage - as number of hits determine chances to proc in Shiradi and thats my main metric for this test. When my lineup is ABCD that means that I will cast A if thats not on cooldown, followed by B if thats not on cooldown etc. Hence its not a rotation but a prioritezed list.

    With a lineup of MM SLA, MM, FM I got 192 force hits/min.
    With a lineup of MM SLA, MM, FM, Scorcing Ray I got 171 force hits/min plus 26 fire hits/min for a total of 197 hits/min using the same method.

    So, adding Scorcing Ray into the mix did infact up the number of hits. However, rays may occasionally miss on moving targets and my target was stationary and there is the issue of having different spell power for force and fire as well as different crit items so I am not entirely certain that Scorcing Ray is an improvement.

    I suppose I may just have to run a longer test sometime to get more accurate data. Also, if someone has another lineup of spells or even an actual rotation that they believe is better that would be interesting to test as well.
    Last edited by mikarddo; 09-12-2013 at 08:10 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    I only add Scorching Ray when I'm stationary and against something with a lot of HP - which mostly means bosses where I'm perching or the boss is otherwise immobilized. The rays will certainly miss if they're much movement involved. I don't Scorching Ray while kiting, for both that reason and that movement and jump-casting take up enough time that there's no real gap in the basic rotation.

    I spam CM SLA/CM/FM, and hit Scorching Ray when they're all on cooldown. I don't spam SR in case it would be cast in place of missiles, but I don't know if that actually matters.

    The base damage of Scorching Ray is also very good, on par with or ahead of the combined base damage of Force Missiles. Shiradi fire sorcs use SR over FM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    I only add Scorching Ray when I'm stationary and against something with a lot of HP - which mostly means bosses where I'm perching or the boss is otherwise immobilized. The rays will certainly miss if they're much movement involved. I don't Scorching Ray while kiting, for both that reason and that movement and jump-casting take up enough time that there's no real gap in the basic rotation.

    I spam CM SLA/CM/FM, and hit Scorching Ray when they're all on cooldown. I don't spam SR in case it would be cast in place of missiles, but I don't know if that actually matters.

    The base damage of Scorching Ray is also very good, on par with or ahead of the combined base damage of Force Missiles. Shiradi fire sorcs use SR over FM.
    That makes sense though I assume you mean MM rather than CM. Have you done any actual testing to see what kind of improved damage you are getting from adding SR? Mostly I am concerned that though all the others are on cooldown so it would seem there is a true gap casting SR might delay the next MM if the gap isnt large enough to fit in SR entirely. The preliminary test I ran suggests that it might be borderline though that could depend on latency as well.

  4. #4
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Never tested it. Seems to be semi-common wisdom, at least on Sarlona.

    Testing is always good, but it's probably pretty difficult to test. Especially if you want to test DPS, the default choice of target is fire immune.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    So, adding Scorcing Ray into the mix did infact up the number of hits. However, rays may occasionally miss on moving targets and my target was stationary and there is the issue of having different spell power for force and fire as well as different crit items so I am not entirely certain that Scorcing Ray is an improvement.
    I just Tr'd out of a Archmage Shiradi build and definitely used scorching ray against stationary targets that were vulnerable. I carried combustion/fire lore and impulse/kinetic scepters almost exclusively. It did certainly add damage to fill the gap and made for beautiful meteor swarm crowd control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    I just Tr'd out of a Archmage Shiradi build and definitely used scorching ray against stationary targets that were vulnerable. I carried combustion/fire lore and impulse/kinetic scepters almost exclusively. It did certainly add damage to fill the gap and made for beautiful meteor swarm crowd control.
    With monk levels scepters are not so appealing though but your point obviously remains valid even so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    Never tested it. Seems to be semi-common wisdom, at least on Sarlona.

    Testing is always good, but it's probably pretty difficult to test. Especially if you want to test DPS, the default choice of target is fire immune.
    DPS requires absolutely huge samples as well to counter the variance so I certainly wont bother trying to parse that. Maybe I will make a longer parse counting hits/min though to have a greater certainty about the difference in hits. Thats pretty trivial to test. Which target is your default choice for testing if I may ask?

  8. #8
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    People tend to use EE Warlock Sobrien as a spell training dummy since he's quick to get to, has a shrine right outside, has a lot of HP, and more or less just stands there while you wail on him.

  9. #9
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    The spell damage on SR is 60 while the base FM is 48. The damage added by shiradi is c.a. 20 per proc. So... SR base is 120, while FM base is 128 which is roughly the same before spellpower.

    On a sorc, SR is better because of higher spellpower and additional savant proc.

    On a wiz, FM is better, but it's likely not so much better that you shouldn't fill in gaps with SR, even if it means waiting a bit longer on your other spells. For reference, MM is roughly the same damage as well (but of course, twice as efficient).

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