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  1. #1
    Community Member Bumbaragum's Avatar
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    Default Help! Because I need somebody! Not just anybody!

    Help me if you can I´m feeling down...

    Lets go down to business. I need help with my pure Rogue, with Epic Twists, Feats, advices in general and getting him up and running Epic Elites.

    I´m feeling squichy, if everyone doing his part I can shine and blaze around the world without a care in the world, if things go sideways I can still shine and blaze around the world but if I close my eyes because of the sleepness or get some 3-5 seconds lag I can go from full health to nothing without being able to scroll heal, get my 50% miss chance up or bluff or something else to escape the death looking me in the eyes.

    So main objective, always pugging and partying, Rogue is the top class that outshine itself and everyone with a full party. He´s the Hapiest guy when the 1k HP barbarian sponge soaking mana, mob hating guy enters the group. Have to perform well with good and bad puggers, if that means scroll healing tank monks while using Xbows to deal some dmg (to be out of the fray), so be it.

    Pure Rogue "Ontem" Drow Elf third life (Past lifes 2x Barbarian) at Level 23

    STR 10 +4 tome
    CON 14 +2 lvl ups here + 3 tome
    DEX 18 +5 lvl ups here + 4 tome
    INT 18 + 3 tome
    WIS 8 + 3 tome
    CHA 10 + 3 tome

    Enhancements are basicaly Assassin Tree up to tier 5 and last core, Mechanic for +3 Umd, wand/scroll usage, +2 dex, and Int to Xbow dmg and Acrobat for faster sneaking

    Actual feats not in order: (1) TWF (3) Weapon Finesse (6) Precision (9) ITWF (12) Toughness (15) GTWF (18) Quick Draw (21) Improved Sneak Attack (24) Improved Critical Piercing (27) Nothing planed yet

    Planing on: Changing Toughness and Quick Draw for Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot, getting Rapid Reload at 24. Changing IC for Epic Damage Reduction at 27 (or not, advices)

    DESTINYS: All destinys at level 5 except for the Arcane sphere (zero on it) Need some serious advices on twists, if I should stay on shadowdancer or something else.

    GEAR:

    HELM: Purple dragon Helm (Can change for anything, at this point, +10 CON + something lootgen, or GH dragon helm)
    GOGGLES: Tharne´s goggles/Epic goggles Time sensing(yellow blind immune, white slot nothing yet)
    NECKLACE: Silver Flame talisman
    TRINKET: Planar Focus of Prowess +3 Exc DEX
    CLOAK: Clever +7 Resistance +7 (Advices on something better and looking somewhere to slot +10 INT +10 Resist gear)
    ARMOR: Cormyrian Red Dragonscale Robe
    BELT: Greater false life +30 (Thinking of +10 DEX 10% dodge lootgen belt)
    GLOVES: PDK Gloves (Best gloves so far, 30% Hamp, +2 Exp CON and some strength to avoid encumbrance)
    BOOTS: Treads of falling shadows Elite (not epic, just elite, Something to fit here if using Golden guile)
    BRACERS: Convalescent of Parrying (Advices)
    RING1: Deadly +8, Accuracy +6 (Deadly +10 in the future)
    RING2: Ring of Lies (Improved deception, charisma for umd, charisma skills, bluff bonus. Could change for the Epic Golden Guile: Improved Dec, Bluff, Ghostly -frees up the boots)
    WEAPONS: Celestias duo (tier 1), Slavers Hand Xbow, Silver Slinger Xbow (not epic yet)




    - Planing on changing feats to use more of the Xbows, end game seems to be needing good ranged dmg.
    - I like to have at least 41 UMD (without GH, ship buffs and swaping gear) So in the case I die a couple or more times I can still use a Raise Dead/Heal/Etc scroll
    - Advices on Raising my PRR (Using robes because can cap Dodge and for next lifes that are going to be monks or monk splashes)
    - Im Tring in the future, One year give or take from now.


    In advance thanks for the suggestions and inputs.

  2. #2
    Community Member Bumbaragum's Avatar
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    Default

    First - Thanks all for the suggestions, Very useful insight on some aspects (others not so much, like changing race and completely changing the built idea - just remember is about improving a character already there, not making one out of scratch)

    Second - Celestias get dex to hit/dmg if you have weapon finesse feat and they bypass almost all DR there is. And they are not piercing attack (Its a nice addition, use it almost all the time, yes I agree sometimes unwanted aggro comes from the AOE effect)

    Third - Feats - full TWF line (3) Precision (4) Weapon Finesse (5) Magic Training (6) Improved Critical Piercing (7) Improve Sneak Attack (8) Rapid Reload (9) and Epic DR (10) Epic Destiny Feats will be Perfect TWF and Elusive Target.

    Always with Coccon twisted now, It added much to my survivability thanks for it. Definitely worth a feat slot, just need to permantly add some healing power gear (currently potency 72 or so on dagger)

    Fourth - Will be farming for shard/scroll/seal of Golden Guile, also looking for Agony daggers. Some of my gear have been already upgraded and will slowly try to add stuff here and there. My Dex is near 50 with +6 gear and +3 insight, will use Yugo dex pots more frequently and will slot +1 except somewhere or put my hands on the Epic globe of Imperial. So can easly hit 60 with Tensers maybe more with better gear.

    Fifth - Finally someone posted something beatles related! Later on I will edit first part and try to organize neatly so more people can use the build and adapt to their liking.

    Again thanks everyone
    Last edited by Bumbaragum; 09-19-2013 at 12:24 AM.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Why are you going to take Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload? You haven't the feats to shine in Ranged. Forget it.

    Celestia is good in bypassing DR but it draws unwanted aggro with its procs. Switch to 2x Agony, you won't regret it.

    TWF
    ITWF
    GTWF
    IC: Piercing
    IC: Slashing (depends on the weapon you want to use, I have both on my Assassin since I use Agony and EMG)
    Toughness
    Precision
    Improved Sneak Attack
    Epic Toughness
    Perfect TWF
    Epic Resistance (10 PRR) / Great Int / Something else (not sure here)
    Elusive Target



    I'm using Shadowdancer for Shadow form.

    Twists:

    Sense Weakness
    Unheartly Reaction (from Magister, +3 dodge, +6 reflex)
    Brace for Impact
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  5. #5
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    It looks like you are improving your repeater work. Left side of Shiradi tree is a nice addition for that.
    http://myaccount.turbine.com

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    DDO Alpha Tester

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Why are you going to take Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload? You haven't the feats to shine in Ranged. Forget it.

    Celestia is good in bypassing DR but it draws unwanted aggro with its procs. Switch to 2x Agony, you won't regret it.

    TWF
    ITWF
    GTWF
    IC: Piercing
    IC: Slashing (depends on the weapon you want to use, I have both on my Assassin since I use Agony and EMG)
    Toughness
    Precision
    Improved Sneak Attack
    Epic Toughness
    Perfect TWF
    Epic Resistance (10 PRR) / Great Int / Something else (not sure here)
    Elusive Target



    I'm using Shadowdancer for Shadow form.

    Twists:

    Sense Weakness
    Unheartly Reaction (from Magister, +3 dodge, +6 reflex)
    Brace for Impact
    Wizza is right about celestia. It's great for boss fights with dr tho. Agony is the best assassin choice atm imo. Don't forget it has keen - no need for imp. crit feat only for that one.

    Think about going int based. It has great sinergy with ranged you seam to want. Otherwise, i'd choose a different race.

    Rapid realod is the most i'd go with ranged feats on a feat starved rogue. That one's optional too but depends how much you want to go ranged.

    You will want to twist cacoon. Scrolls are not that reliable in real combat situations. Your reflex should be good enough to drop unearthy reactions and free that slot.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  7. #7
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Wizza is right about celestia. It's great for boss fights with dr tho. Agony is the best assassin choice atm imo. Don't forget it has keen - no need for imp. crit feat only for that one.

    Think about going int based. It has great sinergy with ranged you seam to want. Otherwise, i'd choose a different race.

    Rapid realod is the most i'd go with ranged feats on a feat starved rogue. That one's optional too but depends how much you want to go ranged.

    You will want to twist cacoon. Scrolls are not that reliable in real combat situations. Your reflex should be good enough to drop unearthy reactions and free that slot.
    IC:Piercing is for every other dagger. With Celestia not included in the Assassin's tree weapons for dex-to-dmg/hit, you will likely want 2x daggers to bypass DR instead of Celestias.

    Reflexes will not be high enough in EEs. I have it and still fail many Ref saves on my build. Cocoon is great and all but scrolls have always been more than enough in combat so saying they are not "reliable" is just wrong. If you twist Cocoon, you will have likely a 20 cast with a 250 SP slot. 20 cast is not that much for current endgame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    IC:Piercing is for every other dagger. With Celestia not included in the Assassin's tree weapons for dex-to-dmg/hit, you will likely want 2x daggers to bypass DR instead of Celestias.
    Yeah you are probably right on dex build... Lootgen daggers suck tho even with the new enhancements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Reflexes will not be high enough in EEs. I have it and still fail many Ref saves on my build. Cocoon is great and all but scrolls have always been more than enough in combat so saying they are not "reliable" is just wrong. If you twist Cocoon, you will have likely a 20 cast with a 250 SP slot. 20 cast is not that much for current endgame.
    My still lvl 25 int based rogue with insightfull reflexes had no problem hitting unbuffed 50 with only brace for inpact. Can't say i really went all in either. That's enought even for classes without an imp. evasion feat.

    I have 300 sp on my rogue, play mostly ee engame and don't even use scrolls any more rly. Never run out of sp and i skip all the shrines to keep the shadowdancer charges... So I don't know how you came to that conclusion...
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  9. #9
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Yeah you are probably right on dex build... Lootgen daggers suck tho even with the new enhancements.


    My still lvl 25 int based rogue with insightfull reflexes had no problem hitting unbuffed 50 with only brace for inpact. Can't say i really went all in either. That's enought even for classes without an imp. evasion feat.

    I have 300 sp on my rogue, play mostly ee engame and don't even use scrolls any more rly. Never run out of sp and i skip all the shrines to keep the shadowdancer charges... So I don't know how you came to that conclusion...
    50 is kinda low for newest content EE. What game difficulty and content are you talking about? I'm talking about the newest EEs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    50 is kinda low for newest content EE. What game difficulty and content are you talking about? I'm talking about the newest EEs.
    Didn't play the new content. 50 was enough for ee GH. As i said that's unbuffed... I could also get ship buffs, GH... And since i'm lvl 25, i'd get another 3 leveling to 28. So around 60 buffed on cap easy...

    But quite frankly, with imp. evasion, even if my saves were 10 points lower i'd still rather take a reliable self heal.

    EDIT: Ah yeah i also forgot new resistance items go to +10... So another +4 there. We could then go to absurds like +3 luck, exceptional reflex, eldrich resistance ritual etc. Rly an overkill easy even without unarthy reactions... But on an imp. evasion toon, what's the point?
    Last edited by PrimalConcreteSledge; 09-16-2013 at 07:35 AM.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  11. #11
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    When it comes to the assassin it has very bad inherent survival. You get that from going outside the box.

    Stats: You ideally want to max your assassinate dc with as much int as you can get. Otherwise, you might as well be a thief-acrobat since it has better dps and trips. 50 int should be fairly easy to achieve, which also benefits when you're forced to pick up a repeater to finish someone off. Dex 18 and a +3 tome for a Drow would let you get improved sneak just fine (even 16 and a 5 tome if you've got it).

    Feats: TWF line and Precision take up 4 of your 7 non-epic feats. Magical Training (to let you twist in cocoon) makes 5, leaving you some choices (improved crit, weapon finesse etc).
    In Epic you'll usually look at improved sneak, then it's whatever you fancy. Rapid Reload at 24 isn't such a terrible idea, but don't bother with point blank and rapid shot because 2 feats to fire quicker isn't worth it (remember you can vorpal at range with your level 18 core ability with a repeater).

    Gear: Ensure you have blurry and ghostly on. Someone linked the ring of shadows, which achieves both. There's also ghostly on the boots from the End of the Road chain (first quest) and blurry can either be a greensteel item, or a phiarlan mirror cloak (which also has light resistance, great in citw). Don't forget to slot your PRR gem somewhere in blue.
    With weapon choice, carrying 2 celestias is great for AOE (something rogues don't have in spades). A pair of sacrificial daggers (preferably 1 dex, 1 con) will help neg level things for casters and such, and it's also sometimes the quickest way to kill a mob.
    Outside of those, 1 Agony paired with a DEVOTION dagger (EMG can slot it, High Priestess dagger has devotion already plus con/wis drain). The 120-150 spellpower dagger in your offhand will boost cocoon up to around 50 a tick
    Finally, carry a staff. I carry an epic nat gann stick (socketed with good) because too many places hate piercing damage.

    Twists: If you're shadowdancer, look at Brace for Impact and Rejuve Cocoon. If you're not, it's usually stealthy for the assassinate bump in the final slot. With Magical Training, when you run out of spell points all it means is Cocoon can be used every 18 seconds instead of 12 (4sp back per 6 with echoes of power). So you'll always have healing.

    Enhancements: +3 umd is nice, but make sure you get Wrack Construct (even if you have to trade the points from umd for it). Being able to sneak att Maruts and things is invaluable at times.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmnqwk View Post
    Outside of those, 1 Agony paired with a DEVOTION dagger (EMG can slot it, High Priestess dagger has devotion already plus con/wis drain).
    Don't forget Agony can get a red slot too. However this will cost you an arm and a leg
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  13. #13
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Didn't play the new content. 50 was enough for ee GH. As i said that's unbuffed... I could also get ship buffs, GH... And since i'm lvl 25, i'd get another 3 leveling to 28. So around 60 buffed on cap easy...

    But quite frankly, with imp. evasion, even if my saves were 10 points lower i'd still rather take a reliable self heal.

    EDIT: Ah yeah i also forgot new resistance items go to +10... So another +4 there. We could then go to absurds like +3 luck, exceptional reflex, eldrich resistance ritual etc. Rly an overkill easy even without unarthy reactions... But on an imp. evasion toon, what's the point?
    New chains are full with spells and damage with a really high DC. What goes Up ice ellies spam A LOT otilukes that deals a ton of damage. Play around in the new chains and then decide
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  14. #14
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
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    Pstt, drop the range :P.

    Pure Human Rogue

    1. Power Attack
    1. Cleave
    3. Toughness
    6. Great Cleave
    9. TWF
    10. Imp Evasion
    12. Imp Crit. Slashing/pierce
    13. Opportunist
    15. ITWF
    16. Slippery Mind/Skill Mastery
    18. GTWF
    19. Skill Mastery
    21. Overwhelming Crit
    24. Epic Toughness
    26. Perfect TWF
    27. Watchful Eye/Epic DR

    Then go in LD for a blitzing rogue.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    New chains are full with spells and damage with a really high DC. What goes Up ice ellies spam A LOT otilukes that deals a ton of damage. Play around in the new chains and then decide
    Wait... You don't have an exact DC number!? But are insisting this person should drop caccoon for another 6 reflex? On an improved evasion toon with the best class reflex in the game, using a primary stat tied to reflex?

    Nice.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  16. #16
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Wait... You don't have an exact DC number!? But are insisting this person should drop caccoon for another 6 reflex? On an improved evasion toon with the best class reflex in the game, using a primary stat tied to reflex?

    Nice.
    I know 65 isn't enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

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  17. #17
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    Default OC chain on assassin rogues

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkantios View Post
    Pstt, drop the range :P.

    Pure Human Rogue

    1. Power Attack
    1. Cleave
    3. Toughness
    6. Great Cleave
    9. TWF
    10. Imp Evasion
    12. Imp Crit. Slashing/pierce
    13. Opportunist
    15. ITWF
    16. Slippery Mind/Skill Mastery
    18. GTWF
    19. Skill Mastery
    21. Overwhelming Crit
    24. Epic Toughness
    26. Perfect TWF
    27. Watchful Eye/Epic DR

    Then go in LD for a blitzing rogue.

    I want to use the +20 heart of wood to fix up some of my (less than useful) feats and stats on my str rogue.
    I was thinking of going down the OC path as well.

    My question: Is the OC chain worth it on a rogue? Is the to-hit penalty a burden?

    Some of my guildies favor dropping pure rogue and splashing in some fighter or monk levels.
    What about the new content (I haven't tried it). Is this a good path for Shadowfell content?

    Opinions?
    Last edited by thomhas_of_mabar; 09-18-2013 at 09:21 PM.

  18. #18
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  19. #19
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomhas_of_mabar View Post
    I want to use the +20 heart of wood to fix up some of my (less than useful) feats and stats on my str rogue.
    I was thinking of going down the OC path as well.

    My question: Is the OC chain worth it on a rogue? Is the to-hit penalty a burden?

    Some of my guildies favor dropping pure rogue and splashing in some fighter or monk levels.
    What about the new content (I haven't tried it). Is this a good path for Shadowfell content?

    Opinions?
    What to-hit penalty? If you did it right, you shouldn't have one.

    My rogue is pure, yes spare feats are a bit rare..but I absolutely love him.
    I personally wouldnt splash anything with rogue if you are going assassin for the facts that one, you lose at least 2 assassinate dc from 1 lvl splash, and 2 I use about 44-46 points in assassin, 20-26 points in mech for the UMD/Scroll Mastery/2 int, enough in acro for the faster sneaking, and then the rest in human for the 20% hamp. Yeah, I suppose you could splash monk and get the faster sneaking from ninja spy, but meh.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    First, nice thread title.

    Since you put level ups into dex and con instead of int and you don't mention using EMG, I'm assuming you're not building for assassinate. If that's the case, then you could lower int to 16, str to 8 and funnel those points into con since you're feeling squishy. With the two level ups into con and your +3 tome you can take epic toughness for even moar hp. Regarding toughness, if you're already feeling squishy, dropping toughness is a bad idea imo. I'd value toughness over any of the ranged feats on a squishy, mostly melee toon any day.

    This thread pretty much covers the PRR options for a pure rogue.

    The build in my sig has a full breakdown of just about everything relevant. It is built for assassinate DC without sacrificing dps or survivability so it may not fit your goals specifically, but you might find some ways to boost your hp, reflex, etc. if you're interested.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

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