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  1. #1
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    Default U19 Trapper Tankadin --- Looking for advice

    To start with, I wanted a character that was strong enough in melee to hold its own, was able to self-heal, and able to take care of traps and locks.
    I wanted paladin because I really wanted to just crush the undead (they were getting to me)
    I understand Tanks are 'inefficient' at the moment, but I want to build one anyway. To that end, Paladin enhancement PRR is great, and human for the heal effectiveness and feat.

    Now, this is a first life character at the moment, but it is a 32 point build and I have a +4 supreme tome to eat at 15, along with a LR to get my skill point at the right levels

    My questions have to do with skill and feat priorities:
    Skills: DD maxed, Search maxed, UMD maxed
    Now, I don't have every location memorized, including the random ones, so I plan on getting spot.
    How much Open Lock will I need to tickle any lock I come by?
    How much Balance should I get?

    Intimidate. Useless? Max?

    Concentration and Empower, or quicken is a choice I'm faced with.
    If I have quicken, I understand I don't need concentration?
    The thing is, I only have one slot for metas, and that would mean no Empower Healing. How effective is it really? Usable on Coccoon? Can I even get coccoon?

    16 Str +4 Tome +7 lvl up
    10 Dex +4 Tome
    14 Con +4 Tome
    16 Int +4 Tome
    8 Wis +4 Tome +however much for spells
    12 Cha +4 Tome Should I put level-ups here? Why?

    1:rogue (skills)
    2:fighter (tower shield, feat)
    3-8:Paladin
    9:Rogue (skills, Evasion)
    10-15:Paladin (12 paladin gets raise ally from enhancement)
    16:Fighter (feat)
    17-19:Paladin
    20:Rogue (skills)

    Feats
    1:Power Attack, H:Cleave
    2F:EWP:Bastard Sword
    3:Shield Mastery
    6:Great Cleave
    9:IC:S
    12: Empower Healing/Quicken ???
    15:Improved Shield Mastery
    16:THF
    18:ITHF
    21:Overwhelming Critical
    24:GTHF
    26:PTHF
    27:Blinding Speed/Bulwark of Defense/Epic DR ???
    28:Holy Strike/Guardian Angel/Elusive Target/Forced Escape ???

    Is THF Chain very effective with Bastard Sword? (http://ddowiki.com/page/Two_Handed_Fighting it does work, as of U5) I understand that this used to be one of the only reasons to go BS over khopesh.
    Would the glancing strikes proc the enchantments on Nightmare? Nightmare, the Fallen Moon
    Perhaps I can switch to a 2-hander if I have the chain?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Verlana 
    Level 28 Lawful Good Human Female
    (2 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 3 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 466
    Spell Points: 257 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 21
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             16                    28
    Dexterity            10                    14
    Constitution         14                    18
    Intelligence         16                    20
    Wisdom                8                    12
    Charisma             12                    16
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14
    +5 Tome of Strength used at level 28
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               4                    14
    Bluff                 1                    11
    Concentration         2                    13
    Diplomacy             1                    11
    Disable Device        7                    36
    Haggle                5                    15
    Heal                 -1                     9
    Hide                  0                    10
    Intimidate            5                    34
    Jump                  7                    21
    Listen                3                    13
    Move Silently         0                    10
    Open Lock             4                    24
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                3                    13
    Search                7                    36
    Spellcraft            3                    13
    Spot                  3                    13
    Swim                  7                    21
    Tumble                4                    14
    Use Magic Device      5                    34
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Listen (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Swim (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+8)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+11)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target
    Last edited by Scawn; 10-16-2013 at 01:37 AM. Reason: Updated build

  2. #2
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    What exactly about undead is driving you crazy?
    Really it looks like the Tukaw build or Jugg but personalized. I assume you will be using Heavy Armor for PRR because you have no evasion with such a low Reflex save Honestly it should work, but not sure about EE as most EE builds focus on ultra survivability and the saves look low (at least without gear lol).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    What exactly about undead is driving you crazy?
    Really it looks like the Tukaw build or Jugg but personalized. I assume you will be using Heavy Armor for PRR because you have no evasion with such a low Reflex save Honestly it should work, but not sure about EE as most EE builds focus on ultra survivability and the saves look low (at least without gear lol).
    The undead comment was not completely serious, it was just the reason I moved away from my rogue for a bit.

    Could you link me those builds?
    (edit: ... Those builds... Well, I'd never seen those before, but they look good. They aren't tank S&B builds though, from what I could tell.)

    I think I will have both heavy and light armors, for when one would be better than the other: more PRR or Evasion
    Do you know a good target for PRR? because the paladin enhancements put me at over 110 last I checked, and I think the graph showed quite hard diminishing returns after that point.
    I wonder if I can get some dodge?

    My reflex saves will come from enhancements, charisma modifier, items, etc. If I had some TRs I'm sure the saves would be even higher, but bear in mind that its a first lifer.
    Last edited by Scawn; 10-16-2013 at 01:49 AM.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scawn View Post
    Intimidate. Useless? Max?
    It's necessary if you plan to be a "real" tank in groups and useless the rest of the time.
    If I have quicken, I understand I don't need concentration?
    For spellcasting, that's correct. However, you also make Concentration checks when using scrolls, so it's handy to have on UMD toons if you can afford it. Plus you don't always want to be using up SPs on Quickened spells; pallies aren't made of mana!
    The thing is, I only have one slot for metas, and that would mean no Empower Healing. How effective is it really? Usable on Coccoon? Can I even get coccoon?
    Yes, you can use Emp Heal on Rejuv Cocoon. And yes, you can take RC, but it'll be a while, because you'll have to start in the Divine ED sphere and make your way over to Primal Avatar (US->GMoF->LD->Shiradi->PA).
    12 Cha +4 Tome Should I put level-ups here? Why?
    Level ups should go into STR for higher melee DPS; but I would start with at least CHA 14 - take it out of DEX. I'm on the fence about whether to start CON 14 CHA 16 or CON 16 CHA 14; I love HPs, but I also love higher saves & Divine Might - so hard to choose!
    Is THF Chain very effective with Bastard Sword? (http://ddowiki.com/page/Two_Handed_Fighting it does work, as of U5) I understand that this used to be one of the only reasons to go BS over khopesh.
    The THF chain adds a significant amount of glancing blows DPS; however it only applies to stationary normal atks. If you're the sort of player who's constantly zipping around in a fight spamming Cleaves, you'll get much less mileage out of them. And since you're so feat-starved, one option would be to drop the chain and switch to using rapiers, scimitars, or khopeshes.
    Perhaps I can switch to a 2-hander if I have the chain?
    It is definitely encouraged to switch to 2H weapon when DPS is more important than tanking...which is almost always, frankly.

  5. #5
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    I think you're trying to do too many things on the same build. I would either go for tanking or trapping, but not both. As you seem like you really want trapping skills, I would drop the shield (except for emergencies), and focus on going THF with as much DPS as possible. Use that extra sneak attack damage from the rogue levels to increase your DPS, but if you're trying to grab agro by being the tank, then that's wasted most of the time. You may want to consider going 4 levels of Rogue instead of 3, if you need the skill points to keep your trapping skills maxed. If not, then 3 Rogue / 2 Fighter would be better.

    Also, I think once you build up your enhancements, you're going to find you really don't have enough. I recommend not to make the mistake of ignoring the Knight tree. You should be spending a good chunk of points in the Knight tree (at least 27 points) to pick up Divine Might, Exhalted Smite, Divine Sacrifice and some Healing Amp. Unfortunately, you'll find that if you don't use a shield, most of the Defender tree is mostly useless to you, except extra LoH.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin
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  6. #6
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    Thank you very much for the helpful replies!
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    It's necessary if you plan to be a "real" tank in groups and useless the rest of the time.
    Ok, right now I have it maxed, so seems like that will work.
    For spellcasting, that's correct. However, you also make Concentration checks when using scrolls, so it's handy to have on UMD toons if you can afford it. Plus you don't always want to be using up SPs on Quickened spells; pallies aren't made of mana!
    Eh, I don't think I can afford either actually.
    Yes, you can use Emp Heal on Rejuv Cocoon. And yes, you can take RC, but it'll be a while, because you'll have to start in the Divine ED sphere and make your way over to Primal Avatar (US->GMoF->LD->Shiradi->PA).
    I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it, but I think I will pick up Emp Heal in preparation for this.
    Level ups should go into STR for higher melee DPS; but I would start with at least CHA 14 - take it out of DEX. I'm on the fence about whether to start CON 14 CHA 16 or CON 16 CHA 14; I love HPs, but I also love higher saves & Divine Might - so hard to choose!
    So right now I'd be looking at
    16 str
    8 dex
    14 con
    16 int
    8 wis
    14 cha
    Need the int to stay where its at for the build to work
    The THF chain adds a significant amount of glancing blows DPS; however it only applies to stationary normal atks. If you're the sort of player who's constantly zipping around in a fight spamming Cleaves, you'll get much less mileage out of them. And since you're so feat-starved, one option would be to drop the chain and switch to using rapiers, scimitars, or khopeshes.
    Do you know if the enchantments on Nightmare to level-drain proc on glancing hits? If so, then I think it may be worth it, otherwise the build will have many feats available which would be very nice
    It is definitely encouraged to switch to 2H weapon when DPS is more important than tanking...which is almost always, frankly.
    I wanted to make a tank trapper build, and if I have the THF it seems like I will be able to do a bit more damage once in a while with a 2H, thats just not the focus of the build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    I think you're trying to do too many things on the same build. I would either go for tanking or trapping, but not both. As you seem like you really want trapping skills, I would drop the shield (except for emergencies), and focus on going THF with as much DPS as possible. Use that extra sneak attack damage from the rogue levels to increase your DPS, but if you're trying to grab agro by being the tank, then that's wasted most of the time. You may want to consider going 4 levels of Rogue instead of 3, if you need the skill points to keep your trapping skills maxed. If not, then 3 Rogue / 2 Fighter would be better.
    Would you recommend 14pal, 4 rogue, 2 fighter?
    right now its 15 pal, 3 rogue, 2 fighter
    The only issue I'm having with skills now is that after maxing umd, dd, search and intimidate, I only have enough points to get one other skill to 14. Since I really want to tickle locks, thats where theyre going and I have only the starting points in spot. I've just been checking ddo wiki before quests to find traps.
    Also, I think once you build up your enhancements, you're going to find you really don't have enough. I recommend not to make the mistake of ignoring the Knight tree. You should be spending a good chunk of points in the Knight tree (at least 27 points) to pick up Divine Might, Exhalted Smite, Divine Sacrifice and some Healing Amp. Unfortunately, you'll find that if you don't use a shield, most of the Defender tree is mostly useless to you, except extra LoH.
    I think I will also have to have at least 15 in human for the healing amp. Do they stack?
    Last edited by Scawn; 10-16-2013 at 06:37 PM.

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