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  1. #41
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    I did it properly, still is boring.
    You do know that 90% of the time when people on the forums call a quest boring, its because they are no good at it.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    The only thing I don't like about the crucible is waiting, sometimes over an hour, for that 6th person to join the party that is playing a character that can possibly do the swim. I cannot tell you how many times I have had a party of 5 people each of whom had a 0.000001% chance of successfully making the swim and thus we had to wait for just the right 6th person to come along. I am not a fan of any quest that absolutely 100% requires a particular type of character to be in the party to be able to beat it. It would be like if Lords of Dust absolutely required you to pray at those optional alters (rather than destroy them) and if hirelings were unable to do the praying. Having such a restriction does not add anything fun to the quest it simply makes it impossible to run until just the right person joins. Trouble is, finding a swimmer is ever harder than finding a divine to pray at the alters. The sad thing is, I like the swim, but I play a lot of characters that are not able to survive it (I am not a fan a pushing the easy button to give all my characters evasion and high reflex saves).
    I've seen (well ok, I didn't actually watch, but I was in the party while) a pure fighter do it, and this was on Elite @ level before those fish bracers existed. Evasion is not required, it just means you can be less careful about the spikes. Learning how to do the swim would save everyone who ever complained about "waiting for a swimmer" from having to make that wait; just be the swimmer!
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Isn't it amazing how every quest you can't faceroll/invisozerg is a contender for "worst quest ever!"

    I like a good ol' hack n' slash (Framework!) as much as the next adventurer, but I thank the devs for giving me more things to do than just kill, advance, kill, advance, yawn, kill, advance, kill, yawn, advance...

    There's tons of kill or invis past all the mobs quests, give me more Tormented, Pit, Crucible... Hell, gimmy an epic Pit of the Tormented Crucible, that'll separate the men from the boys
    The problem with these quests is that it is generally best to have one player do most of the work with the rest just pitching in here or there. That and the mazes/puzzles never change, so limited re-playability compared to simple hack and slash given this limitation.

    Part 3 of The Shroud is really as close to a good use of puzzles as I can think of this game using.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    The only thing I don't like about the crucible is waiting, sometimes over an hour, for that 6th person to join the party that is playing a character that can possibly do the swim. I cannot tell you how many times I have had a party of 5 people each of whom had a 0.000001% chance of successfully making the swim and thus we had to wait for just the right 6th person to come along. I am not a fan of any quest that absolutely 100% requires a particular type of character to be in the party to be able to beat it. It would be like if Lords of Dust absolutely required you to pray at those optional alters (rather than destroy them) and if hirelings were unable to do the praying. Having such a restriction does not add anything fun to the quest it simply makes it impossible to run until just the right person joins. Trouble is, finding a swimmer is ever harder than finding a divine to pray at the alters. The sad thing is, I like the swim, but I play a lot of characters that are not able to survive it (I am not a fan a pushing the easy button to give all my characters evasion and high reflex saves).
    The solution to that is to have a healer hireling fill that 6th spot and then just rez whoever summoned it through the swim.

  5. #45
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I've seen (well ok, I didn't actually watch, but I was in the party while) a pure fighter do it, and this was on Elite @ level before those fish bracers existed. Evasion is not required, it just means you can be less careful about the spikes. Learning how to do the swim would save everyone who ever complained about "waiting for a swimmer" from having to make that wait; just be the swimmer!
    yeah, ive finally done the swim as a monk the past few lives and its really not that bad. you just need decent reflex saves and some pots. as far as being able to do it without evasion? maybe after you have practiced many times because its not quite that easy to not bump into the spikes. i got better at it last life, but its hard to navigate with the current without pushing forward and guide yourself through holes the size of a bread box. even if you make it without evasion, you still have to swim through the fan and you would be very lucky to not get hit by the blades. for those of you who die every time at the first fan on the right? that's the wrong fan. trust me, i tried getting through it and its not possible ;p

    as far as Tormented goes. I will run the quest because the xp is that good as long as someone can play rat guide and I don't care if it takes an hour to complete. I don't care about the xp/min thing. I just like seeing big numbers pop up on my screen. I do know it can be done very quickly and been in groups who have completed in ~15 min, but also was in a group once that lasted 1 1/2 hours. that quest is extremely boring for anyone who is not playing rat guide. every minute or so you just need to wake up and kill the undead for the millionth time in a row to pile meat carcasses up on the grates. if any quest was to be Crucibled, it really should have been Tormented. devs need to do something different for this quest or replace it with something different.
    Last edited by Qhualor; 09-12-2013 at 12:15 AM.

  6. #46
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The second part being Epic Hold for Reinforcement Devil Assault, where you have to defend Coyle against constantly spawning waves of Epic Devils that he throws himself at
    The Third part is Epic Spies in the Coylebinder House, a mission in which you must rescue the entire Coyle family, who are all being held hostage in their oversized home, a home mysteriously filled with water, air jets, and lethal traps.

    If you make a mistake moving from one part of the house to the next, on an air jet, then you cause a slight breeze to make contact with a member of the Coyle family, thereby instantly killing them, and you need to restart the mission.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    if any quest was to be Crucibled, it really should have been Tormented. devs need to do something different for this quest or replace it with something different.
    Not to start an argument, but I have to say I completely disagree. IMO it displays some of the best aspects of quest desing:

    •There's more to success than just killing stuff or running past it.

    •While it's completely soloable, it also benefits greatly from teamwork.

    In a game that started out with a multiplayer focus, but has been evolving into a single player with multiplayer option, the (quest specific*) goal of grouping should be to make the quest faster & easier. While scaling breaks this in many cases, here it works.

    *there's also the social aspect of grouping, but that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  8. #48
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiller67 View Post
    I always try to imagine Dreaming Dark if it were populated by air elementals
    That's quest #2.
    Dreaming Dark crossed with Fleshmaker, crossed with Tor, crossed with Gladewatch defence... and for the fun of it, add in the archers from the new quest.
    Y'know, auto red alert. Thrill of the hunt?
    Meaning we'll have a platform quest, with required kills within 5 seconds of each other, you'll need to use the runes every 10 seconds to be able to damage the bosses, massive lag+red alert, while defending a crazy (suicidal) npc. Oh, of course. Don't forget the dreaming dark end fight. It'll be like that the whole way through. Lots of char damage, lots of nightmares and bucketloads of phasing spiders - with a vanguard of red named air elementals.
    (Air elemental 1 to 25 will be their names.)

    Call it "Thrill of the Gladewatch Tor Dreaming Fleshmaker." or something.

    Oh. Did I mention the red named beholders?

    On second thoughts, that doesn't sound that bad.

  9. #49
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    -secret-
    Shh! Delete that, we can't let people know.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Epic Pit of the Tormented Crucible Chamber. And that's just the first part of a chain.
    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The second part being Epic Hold for Reinforcement Devil Assault, where you have to defend Coyle against constantly spawning waves of Epic Devils that he throws himself at
    Quote Originally Posted by EnjoyTheJourney View Post
    The Third part is Epic Spies in the Coylebinder House, a mission in which you must rescue the entire Coyle family, who are all being held hostage in their oversized home, a home mysteriously filled with water, air jets, and lethal traps.

    If you make a mistake moving from one part of the house to the next, on an air jet, then you cause a slight breeze to make contact with a member of the Coyle family, thereby instantly killing them, and you need to restart the mission.
    All of which culminates in the raid: Accursed Titan's Soul. 'nuff said
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    The solution to that is to have a healer hireling fill that 6th spot and then just rez whoever summoned it through the swim.
    I don't think that works anymore. Last I tried you could not have a hire raise you underwater and you could not even use a cake underwater. I do hope this has changed.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  12. #52
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Tomb of the Tormented is the BEST Quest in Necro III!


    In fact: It's the ONLY one I can actually stomach running more than Once per Life!


    Tomb of the Forbidden Or "The Ice Rink" = Aaaargh

    Tomb of the Unhallowed = Boring, Boring, Boring!

    Tomb of the Blighted = OMG Nooooo!

    The Cursed Crypt = Seriously...I just don't understand why people like this quest BUT The Bloody Crypt seems to be Universally Loathed - One of them is a Fantastic Dungeons & Dragons Quest, The Other is Truly Awful!



    P.S. I Personally Loathe Frame Work!
    I also can't stand Crucible, The Pit, Inferno, Anything in Druid's Deep!

    I believe Tomb of the Tormented to be at the Pinnacle of DDO Quest Design - So long as it's actually working of course {Sometimes the Zombies can be reluctant to awake.}.


    Oh and Wands of Sonic Blast are extremely nice items to collect - Sonic Blast Goes through the Grill to kill the Bad Rats and Worgs in the Maze.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I don't think that works anymore. Last I tried you could not have a hire raise you underwater and you could not even use a cake underwater. I do hope this has changed.
    Oh well. It's no longer a flagging quest, so no big deal.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I just don't understand why people like this quest BUT The Bloody Crypt seems to be Universally Loathed - One of them is a Fantastic Dungeons & Dragons Quest, The Other is Truly Awful!
    IME there's three "types" of DDO players, and the game at various points caters to them all....and they all complain about wherever the game doesn't cater to them

    1) The Diabloites. These are the people that prefer hack n slash gameplay. Lots of monsters, kill em all, big DPS characters, very loot- and reward-driven.

    2) The Tomb Raiders. These are the people that prefer more FPS/platform-jumper gameplay where player twitch skill is called on more. A few monsters, that are better handled tactically than just with moar boom. Will be more likely to have versatile chars like trappers or stealth-using builds, and are driven more by completing content.

    3) The Monkey Islanders. These are the people that prefer more puzzle-based gameplay. Monsters may be completely irrelevant if a puzzle can have challenge without them. Motivated most by finding fun and novel mechanics/minigames/metagames within quests.

    I think Tormented appeals most to this last group. I'm probably in the first group, I love me a good dungeon crawl.

  15. #55
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    If we had more realistic mechanics for spells affecting areas behind bars I ran that quest more often. While this quest first appears to give you all kind of creative options for neutralizing mobs behind the grid it actually only restricts you to use dead meat.

    The whole Necropolis has a big plus in its atmosphere, in my opinion. But it is even the Necropolis where I see the biggest flaw of DDO design as well. The dev.s want you to play their game when many people (subjective again) think, that it is not a problem, when casters have it easier than mundane classes. Take the Tomb with those gears being traded through the bars. It is just plain inconsistent to allow something in this quest and forbid in another, while creating the same premise. I hate Zelda-obstacles like the plague. (if you wonder what a Zelda ostacle is....those chairs put in your way and you neither can jumpover them, destroy them or simply push them aside, very common in 2D RPGs)

    The restriction of spells working through certain barriers seems to be just another fear of overpowered characters. The same happened with certain cold spells not working in Inferno of The Damned. Why can't they accept that certain classes have it easier in certain quests and/or situations than others. This is somehow the whole point of DDO. Big diversity in characters. And then put down by a sheet of paper between you and your final dungeon goal....

    Bad design of rule mechanics. Sorry dev.s.

    -edit-
    p.s.:
    And thanks to FanOhms Sonic Blast will be fixed soon as well. I am dead sure no spell is supposed to have effect through bars.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 09-12-2013 at 04:47 AM.
    Characters on Orien:
    Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus

  16. #56
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    -edit-
    p.s.:
    And thanks to FanOhms Sonic Blast will be fixed soon as well. I am dead sure no spell is supposed to have effect through bars.
    Also goes through walls, doors and breaks boxes.

    Was fun on my first wizard life.. something about hiding behind a door and kill things amused me for a while.
    Then I got bored and got a greatsword out. Because spells suck for ages.

  17. #57
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You do know that 90% of the time when people on the forums call a quest boring, its because they are no good at it.
    So all those people that say defending coyle for 15 min is boring actually are not good at it?
    I do this quest every life, its boring.

  18. #58
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    So all those people that say defending coyle for 15 min is boring actually are not good at it?
    I do this quest every life, its boring.
    Its not boring, annoying maybe, but not boring. Claiming something is boring is for most of the 10% remaining a way to get rid of a mechanic or quest they find annoying.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  19. #59
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its not boring, annoying maybe, but not boring. Claiming something is boring is for most of the 10% remaining a way to get rid of a mechanic or quest they find annoying.
    Lol, now you know what is boring and what is not boring for me?

  20. #60
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Lol, now you know what is boring and what is not boring for me?
    Just generalizing, see. Its like the people who are asked a question that they dont want to answer, and reply "go away, youre boring me".

    For all i know you could be bored by anything between heaven and earth, but it would be a boring forum if nobody objected to everything.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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