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  1. #1
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Cool Wizard w/Morninglord splash aka trying to find a use for this "Class"

    OK so unfortunately whilst ML have a few cool abilities your better off just going normal cleric as a large chunk of their abilities focus on Bow use and Arcane spell casting because some dev though Elf?!? when he was told to make an Iconic cleric instead of something like Aasimar which would have made way more sense (and would follow the them of iconics being unique versions of existing races instead just another elf...which we now have FOUR of)

    Personally I would have rather seen the existing races get "sub-races" (Elf gets Sun Elf, Drow and Half-Elf, Human gets Shadar-Kai, Aasimar and Tiefling, Dwarfs get Duergar, Warforged get Scout and Bladeforged etc.) that you would choose at creation giving a different racial tree than add PDK as a new Melee class and Morninglord should have been a Cleric Tree.

    Anyways unfortunately Lama went down before I was able to copy down the morninglord abilities and Deadlock is still in the process of updating his PDF of the E-Pass so I'm going off of memory here so I'm more hoping for a discussion on possibilities here as opposed to a specific build but I will post my various ideas to get it started.

    Now currently I'm in the stage of deciding on a level split and possibly a 2nd splash.

    So Far I'd prefer to have have 18Wizard but 12-17 is an option if it's worth it (just use Wraith from) with Morninglord anywhere from Lvl 1-6 (5 for tier 5 enhancements if theirs any worth it and 6 for second tier core) as well as any 3rd class...not sure if there's any worthwhile enhancements in the lines but I do remember you could enhance Negative spellpower alot...anyone know if that stacks with the Palemaster Neg Spell power?

    The main reason for a 1 splash of Morninglord is access to the Heal skill for more Neg spellpower...the few powers that are not elf related are nice but I'm pretty sure they require wisdom so this build would likely crank as much AP into PM as possible just for the spellpower despite alot of the PM abilities being abysmal (ie. Cloak of Night and the Undead Raise) than anything leftover into Archmage.

    As for splashes I'd say Fighter1 or Monk1 are best simply for the extra feat (assuming an 18/1/1 build) but a Monk2 or Rogue 2 + Insightful reflexes would be good too (assuming 12-17 Wizard)

    One thing I'd like to fit in now that sneaking has had an update and since wraith has a nice +20 MS (and invisibility negates the need for hide) is of course Move silently but that shouldn't be too hard especially with a splash of monk or rogue 1.

    Personally I'm trying to roll up a Wiz17/Rogue or Monk2/ML1 and a Wiz18/ML1/Rogue or Monk1 as I'd prefer it to just be a normal wizard with a twist. So far I'm more likely to go rogue as Wizards really don't need extra feats.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-12-2013 at 08:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    The main reason for a 1 splash of Morninglord is access to the Heal skill for more Neg spellpower...
    Hmmm, interesting - do you think 12 extra ranks of Heal make up for losing the capstone + extra feat? Sure, sun elves are +2 INT, but that only makes up for losing the capstone's +2 INT. Although if +2 INT was so critical, we'd all be playing pure drow PMs anyway...

  3. #3
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Hmmm, interesting - do you think 12 extra ranks of Heal make up for losing the capstone + extra feat?
    No I don't I'm just desperate to actually find a use for Morninglord...currently I don't see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    No I don't I'm just desperate to actually find a use for Morninglord...currently I don't see it.
    "Slightly gimpy cleric" doesn't count?

  5. #5
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    "Slightly gimpy cleric" doesn't count?
    Well the hopes for the "Iconics" is that they bring something special to their native class not make them slightly worse.

    So in this case no
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    "Slightly gimpy cleric" doesn't count?
    With all the racial trees being almost completely ignored because of how expensive they are coupled with how stupid so many of the Morninglord racials are for, well, everything (especially a cleric)...it's just like a human cleric minus the bonus feat/skills.

    As feat starved as clerics are and with the importance of skills after the enhancement pass, that's more than "slightly" gimpy, IMO. Morninglord was always going to be somewhat gimpy, but with access to the racial abilities you had some cool flavor. Now that's not even there unless you want to throw away rather important enhancements from one of the other trees and take a bunch of useless elf filler.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Played as intended (i.e., WIS-based cleric), the Morninglord is no worse than a typical elf cleric and is perhaps slightly better, since extra skill pts from +2 INT is probably more useful than +1 AC & Reflex from +2 DEX. [Concentration, Heal, and Spellcraft are going to be the minimum skills you'll want on a caster cleric, IMHO.] There's more than enough goodies in the cleric PrEs that one can ignore the racial tree entirely; which admittedly means you won't get the Morninglord-specific SLAs, but I find them underwhelming anyway. So, considering how many people "gimp" their builds by choosing their favorite race, rather than the one which the DDO Hive Mind deems optimal for their class, Morninglords are pretty average.

    The real problem IMHO is Morninglords look pretty boring compared to, say, Bladeforged; ML's Iconic abilities mostly just duplicate existing cleric powers, whereas adding Repair & Reconstruct to a WF pally is a pretty big deal.

    Still, if we're trying to think outside the box, what about a WIS-based monkcher? The cleric splash lets you take Emp Heal (Rejuv Cocoon); if you can add the Sunburst SLA, that meshes w/WIS for DCs.

  8. #8
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    ... So, considering how many people "gimp" their builds by choosing their favorite race, rather than the one which the DDO Hive Mind deems optimal for their class, Morninglords are pretty average.
    Is there a way to get a coherent list of race + class combinations out of the DDO Hive Mind? I'm finding it pretty confusing to navigate.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  9. #9
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    Is there a way to get a coherent list of race + class combinations out of the DDO Hive Mind? I'm finding it pretty confusing to navigate.
    Well considering I got kicked out of the Hive Mind long ago (they don't like "lore/fluff lovers") I have no chance of navigating it :P

    @UBW: My main issues with ML:

    1) We already have enough bloody elves
    2) There's nothing unique about them visually unlike the other Iconics...their just elves.
    3) The don't have any unique abilities again their just elves with some SLAs that are mostly already available to clerics anyways (the super heal of 10k HP is just over overkill...just cast heal)

    I'd rather just go regular cleric...MLs are slightly better elven clerics...that's not a complement

    Mind you on the other hand I loathe the idea of the iconic classes anyways.

    1 - PDK should have been a Fighter prestige class it was planned for it anyways
    2 - Morninglord only amount to one line of SLAs which could have fit fine in Radiant Servant
    3 - Shadar-Kai should have been a sub-race of human (have races in categories like classes are...ie. Elves categories would include Eberron Elves, Drow, Sun Elves and Half-Elves)
    4 - Bladeforged should also have been a sub-race under the category construct (Shardminds would be a nice addition assuming the next class is a Psionic one)
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-20-2013 at 12:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #10
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    If they were to ever fix the deathblock blocking your wizard self healing with negative energy i could see some use for the morninglord racial tree. That buff is Aid, Deathblock and Spell Resist.. not something a wizard normally gets. Seeing as the PM tree spell like abilities don't allow metas to work on them the sunburst from the morninglord tree is not that bad, since it does allow racials and works with maximize and empower without increased cost. Plus it blinds things, making them have more trouble hitting you or the group.

    For the time being you have the morninglord super heal ability, which also removes rez sickness, for those times a cleric hits you with deathblock and you go splat. Now once revived you can cure that rez sickness! As an added benefit you can invest in the ability to use a turn and cause light damage to the other nearby PMs who had survived by dodging the clerics deathblock. Let them have a round of rez sickness!

    I've toyed a bit with a morninglord turned Druid.. combine the buffs and sunburst SLA with druids caster tree and fire elemental form and it is pretty fun. It might also be a good mix for a defense type paladin.. run out of Lay on Hands and use the morninglord racial heal, and you get those extra buffs that do not cost spellpower.

  11. #11
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Random thought

    Arty18/Ranger1/ML1

    Arcanotechnician spec + ML super heal + Ranger Devotion + Bonuses to Int and some ranged combat stuff (although most of it is bow related) + some extra SLA buffs arties don't normally get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #12
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I think with all the iconics trying to build to ALL of their abilities is a trap.

    If I were to build a Morninglord crossed w/ Wizard it would be something like ....

    Wizard 18 / Cleric 1 / Bard 1

    Melee but with decent DCs / Spell Pen PM

    Normal (2) PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, Insightful Reflexes, THREE SPARE FEATS
    Wizard (4) Quicken, Extend, Maximize, SPARE FEAT

    You could make a pretty reasonable gish out of this - but you'd need to decide if you wanted to focus more on melee, spell pen or DCs. That should also be reflected in your attributes - how high do you push INT and do you put levels there, etc.?

    Cleric nets divine power, additional neg SP. Bard nets Skaldic Rage plus extra songs, UMD.

    You get a boost to swinging mauls, so that's where I'd go.

    You could probably do OK w/ spell pen + levels into STR. Power Words, OID, Energy Drain, etc. All useful.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

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