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  1. #1
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Default Are there many dex based twf'r out there? How are the enhancement working for you?

    Specifically my main is a drow 18 tempest ranger/1 rogue /1 fighter.

    I like the tempest tree, mostly. I think the dex for damage should include rapiers. The requirement to go into deepwood sniper to get dex to damage on rapiers is, in my opinion, a flaw.

    I've delved into the AA tree which is something I've never done before. I got a nice boost to my ranged effectiveness.

    The drow racial tree is horribly broken though it looks like it should have great synergy with tempest if it ever gets fixed.

    I had high hopes for this character, but overall I'm underwhelmed by the changes to it. I think I came out about even, when on paper it should of been a nice boost to dps. (i.e. I added dex to damage and all the xendrik and tempest damage enhancements but came out with the same dps as before.)

    How is it going for the rest of you dex fighters?
    /sigh

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    How is it going for the rest of you dex fighters?
    I have a DEX-based Elf Ranger/Druid, mainly an AA but she can drop to dual wield Longswords when its advantageous. She can use Rapiers with DEX, too

    Why wouldn't you want to go into DWS, though? Exposing Strike is an awesome melee attack.

    In terms of DPS, I don't know whats making you think you're only equal to before. My STR-based 14 Rgr/6 Fighter Khopesh Tempest is psychotically better than before...if you're comparing a DEX build now to a STR build before, well then yeah, its not going to blow you out of the water, because you still can buff STR a little more than DEX (Rams Might, Rage, etc.). But the flipside is your Reflex saves are outstanding, you have more AC, and you can switch to a bow and actually hit stuff with regularity. Try mixing in a little Manyshot with a decent bow to start fights with a pull, see if that doesn't increase your net DPS.

  3. #3
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    I've got one at 16, and it's ok for heroic. Once I get to epic levels I doubt it will work as well. There just aren't enough dex boosting abilities out there like rage or primal scream or power surge or divine might. I can't think of a single spell or ED ability that adds a big boost to dex. There are FAR more ways to bump str over dex.

  4. #4
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    Ram's might (to the best of my knowledge) does not increase STR, but instead adds a +2 SIZE BONUS to damage.

    Dex and Str builds both benefit.

  5. #5
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Ram's Might adds a +2 size modifier to both strength and damage, for a total of +3 damage on a strength build.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    I've got one at 16, and it's ok for heroic. Once I get to epic levels I doubt it will work as well. There just aren't enough dex boosting abilities out there like rage or primal scream or power surge or divine might. I can't think of a single spell or ED ability that adds a big boost to dex. There are FAR more ways to bump str over dex.
    To be fair, though...with new things like Deadly, +damage enhancements, and +W active attacks from Enhancements, the proportion of your total damage from your STR or DEX bonus is much smaller than it was before.

  7. #7
    Community Member apaurin's Avatar
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    Since I was planning to TR my main bard into rogue splashed build for quite some time, I did it when enhancements pass hit and decided to go dex based. I took 3 levels of rogue for assassin core ability that gives dex to damage with all finessable weapons, and level of fighter for feat (weapon finesse) and haste boost, the rest will be bard levels. So far so good, but I'm only level 7 so can't comment about end game viability...
    Active characters: Pssyche * Dredmor * Worley * Bundolo

  8. #8
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    My dex-based rogue assassin does just fine at epic. The enhancement pass mostly gave me a reason to use daggers and kukris; before I was stuck using only named items that are dex-for-damage. Agony became better DPS than Rebellion, which is impressive.

    For the most part the enhancement pass was straight improvement for my rogue.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    I have to say that it's working out rather well for me, but that's not surprising, since I prefer a Dex based playstyle anyway. Dex to damage allows me to pump more points into Dex, meaning better reflex saves/evasion. An example, although not at epic levels for this life yet, would be running elite Pit at level, on a pure ranger, and evading damage from the force traps, even when I wound up just standing in one while everyone kept going the wrong way. I easily ran through 200 of those, and that's probably an understatement, and got hit twice, for minimal damage, ie; my nonmeta'd cure light wounds healed up the damage I took.

    Added to this, with a 10 point "splash" into Tempest, I can dual wield scimitars as light weapons, meaning a reduced penalty for 2WF since the off hand weapon is considered light, and then add in Dex to Damage, and I'm loving it. I have just freed up another feat on a class that gets a lot of feats free already. The running joke while discussing this in guild chat the other day is that there will be a lot more Drow Ranger Drizzt wannabes. Likely, but for me, if I did a Drow Ranger, it would be an AA, it was my favorite PRe before the pass, and remains so now. What this basically comes down to is that I could build a Wiz AA, if I wanted to, and not gimp Int/Dex to produce good damage while I'm trying to conserve SP for later, since you can take Grace in the Elven tree, and apply your dex to damage on the bow as well. So yeah, it's working out rather well for me.

  10. #10
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    To be fair, though...with new things like Deadly, +damage enhancements, and +W active attacks from Enhancements, the proportion of your total damage from your STR or DEX bonus is much smaller than it was before.
    True, but all my combat DCs are absolute garbage.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    True, but all my combat DCs are absolute garbage.
    if you want a finesse fighter who can trip and stun consider a dex/wis focussed staff fighting monk rogue blend. lots of different ways to do that path and make it fun.

    I had a strength dumped guy test it out abit in epic challenges before I TRed him and even only pushed into thief/acro to test its synergy with gmof I was able to trip giants reliably. I can only imagine a seriously focussed character doing such would keep even the biggest baddest on their asses.

  12. #12
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    I have a drow 15Pal/3mnk/2ftr/5epic shortsword dex-build and it works really nice. It can hold it's own in epic content fine with close to 30% dodge. Grandmaster of winds helps with DEX. Weilding dual epic envenomed blades provides some sweet cc. Still working on my Celestias. Been switching between FotW and GoF for adrenalinesmites or more double strike and attack speed. The enhancement pass really worked out for this kind a weirder builds.

  13. #13
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    I have a dex based halfling monk kensai dual weilding axes of adaxus that is SWEET. The only downside really is standing in the bear traps for 25 years when I get into one hehe.

  14. #14
    Community Member Maatogaeoth's Avatar
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    My current TR life is a INT/DEX drow rogue. Took weapon finesse so that dex-to-damage worked with rapiers. Mistakenly thought that the drow weapon bonuses would actually work.

    It's nice getting dex-to-hit/damage with light maces for the undead I'm running into now (level 9). Later on, just don't see it being worth a feat, especially with the rogue T5 only boosting daggers/kukris.

  15. #15
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    if you want a finesse fighter who can trip and stun consider a dex/wis focussed staff fighting monk rogue blend. lots of different ways to do that path and make it fun.

    I had a strength dumped guy test it out abit in epic challenges before I TRed him and even only pushed into thief/acro to test its synergy with gmof I was able to trip giants reliably. I can only imagine a seriously focussed character doing such would keep even the biggest baddest on their asses.
    At that point I'm not at all what I started out being (twf rogue). I already have a staff user. I don't need two. If complain about self healing on my fleshy sorc, you wouldn't suggest I go change into a FvS/cleric/druid would you? Or would you. The whole point of the thread was dex based twf

  16. #16
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    At that point I'm not at all what I started out being (twf rogue). I already have a staff user. I don't need two. If complain about self healing on my fleshy sorc, you wouldn't suggest I go change into a FvS/cleric/druid would you? Or would you. The whole point of the thread was dex based twf
    My advice would be to pump up Str via gear/augments. While my Assassin is currently "enjoying" the same problem with tripping, I'm working to improve it via gear. I can't remember the affix/suffix, or which it is, that helps with this, but they are out there.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    At that point I'm not at all what I started out being (twf rogue). I already have a staff user. I don't need two. If complain about self healing on my fleshy sorc, you wouldn't suggest I go change into a FvS/cleric/druid would you? Or would you. The whole point of the thread was dex based twf
    TWF dex rogue isn't going to have good tactics DCs, no - that's one of the tradeoffs. If epic and looking for knockdown, Balanced Attacks lvl 3 from Primal gives no-save 2 second knockdown on vorpal that's better than I thought it would be, and of course if in Fury there's Overwhelming Force. I personally use Improved Deception as my CC of choice; standard weaps is 2xRebellion right now, and I can swap in eGoldenGuile as well (weapon proc vs gear proc appears to be separate procs). For EDs I usually run Shadowdancer for improved survival and +6d6 sneak attack, and twist in sense weakness rather than balanced attacks or symmetric strikes.

  18. #18
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    I saw someone as a elf using scimitars and even getting them to count as a light off hand. I would like to see this work the same for rapier.

    As a clarification: My tempest has been a dex build every since drow were introduced. The character went through the changes of wearing armor to wearing icy raiments and back to wearing armor with MOTU. My damage number (just looking at the first number) are within a point or two of where they were pre-U19. I was expecting quite a bit of an increase. Here is why:

    dex to damage: +5 (dex is 10pts higher than str)
    Xen'drik: +2 (had +2 in old enhancements from drow, so a gain of 2.)
    Tempest: +4 (these enhancements did not exist before.)
    Fighter: +2 (these enhancements did not exist before.)
    Total: +13 to damage

    This is the type of improvement that should be clearly seen. I'm not seeing it in the numbers. I know Xen'drik is bugged. Are other parts of it bugged? I read that other people are enjoying the benefits of the changes for TWF. What am I missing. This is my preferred style and I'd like to get it up to speed.

    Thanks.
    /sigh

  19. #19
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    I've got one at 16, and it's ok for heroic. Once I get to epic levels I doubt it will work as well. There just aren't enough dex boosting abilities out there like rage or primal scream or power surge or divine might. I can't think of a single spell or ED ability that adds a big boost to dex. There are FAR more ways to bump str over dex.
    Tensers adds to dex. The major issue with dex to damage is str is so insanely easy to get. There are some examples where dex to damage is a good pick up though.

    My arty has pinion, and just about all good ranged feats. Picking up many shot is an easy choice - then picking up grace (dex to damage for longbows) then moving into the elf AA tree a bit. So now he can do fuscilade 8x per rest with dex to hit and int to damage, and manyshot once per two minutes with dex to hit and damage, on a dex/int arty build, with dumped str.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #20
    Community Member Lorianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    I've got one at 16, and it's ok for heroic. Once I get to epic levels I doubt it will work as well. There just aren't enough dex boosting abilities out there like rage or primal scream or power surge or divine might. I can't think of a single spell or ED ability that adds a big boost to dex. There are FAR more ways to bump str over dex.
    There are definitely a lot more ways to boost str than dex, but depending on build it's not TOO hard to get a 60+ dex.

    18 base
    +7 level ups
    +5 tome
    +10 item
    +3 insightful
    +1 exceptional
    +6 race/class enhancements

    50 dex
    +3 rogue toggle
    +4 monk stance
    +3 ED

    60 dex

    Does require a pretty specific build (rogue/monk/perhaps ranger), but with tensers, yugo pots, bard song, etc, you could probably push close to 70 dex.

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