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  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default Dungeon scaling based on class . . . has anyone crunched the numbers?

    I know for example when I go into a quest on my fighter the mobs have more HP than if I went in on my ranger or monk, I've tested this a few times in places where you can see their HP.

    Has anyone already crunch the numbers and figured out how this works percentage wise?

  2. #2
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Yea, people did, but on old forum.

  3. #3
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    Noone bothered to check and reply? Disappointing.


    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ngeon-scaling?


    Only Solo difficulty (such as from the solo-only quests like An Explosive Situation) and Raid areas (including the Subterrane) do not scale. Elite was considered to have no scaling but that decision was changed before it hit the live servers.

    Keep in mind that I only have rough sets of data to work with, but I'll give my best approximations.

    The following effect scaling:
    Character level compared to quest - Being 3 levels under on normal may set the elemental damage to ~20% scaling while being 5 levels over on normal may set the elemental damage to ~40% scaling.
    Class composition - In the higher levels being a full fledged Barbarian of equal level to a quest may put you around ~25% scaling while a full fledged Sorcerer of equal level would be closer to ~32%. A 1/2 Barbarian 1/2 Sorcerer multiclass would be ~28.5% scaling.
    Player, Hireling, or Gold-seal Hireling - Players count for full. Hirelings count as 1/4th a player. Gold-seal hirelings count as nothing (or a very small amount).
    Difficulty Setting - A full fledged cleric that is 5 or more levels over the quest would have scaling be - 20% on casual (half of normal), 41% on normal, 54% on hard, 71% on elite.
    Amount of players - On normal, add up between the players in the group. For instance, an equal level Barbarian (~25%), Sorcerer (~33%), and hireling Cleric (~7.75%) should net around ~65.75% scaling. Scaling should stop at 100%, but for some reason due to rounding up in various places can exceed that.


    Class scaling, from the ones who have the least scaling to those with the most scaling (at level 20):
    Barbarian
    Rogue
    Fighter
    Ranger
    Bard
    Paladin
    Monk
    Cleric
    Favored Soul
    Wizard
    Sorcerer

  4. #4
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    This is just sad Turbine, treat each class as a flat number if you have to include scaling at all. Don't give some classes their own handicaps.

    edit

    I mean handicap just like in say bowling etc.

  5. #5
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    This is just sad Turbine, treat each class as a flat number if you have to include scaling at all. Don't give some classes their own handicaps.

    edit

    I mean handicap just like in say bowling etc.
    Agreed. There may have been a time for this sort of thing, but it's unnecessary now. All it does basically is make Barbarian DPS and defense very slightly higher, relatively speaking, than a wizard or sorc (meaning that a pure barbarian does effectively more damage than the numbers would indicate as a he hits for a higher % of mob hp than a wizard or sorc who sees the same damage number on their screen). An easier way to do this is to just balance things out in the enhancements which I like to think they at least tried to do with the enhancement pass. Therefore this type of scaling bias should be unnecessary.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  6. #6
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Fighter gets harder scaling than monk? thats just wrong.

  7. #7
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Fighter gets harder scaling than monk? thats just wrong.
    A paladin gets harder scaling than a fighter, a ranger or a rogue? THAT is wrong. (At least rogues can instakill)

    Also, minor note. Top is least scaled, bottom is most scaled. So a monk gets more scaling than a fighter. (Monks get harder quests)

    Which is still likely wrong, but w/e.

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    Post date is:

    06-19-2011, 04:34 PM


    I am not sure Turbine didnt change anything from this time. Maybe they did, maybe they dont. Way of checking how much difficulty scales by class is already known, this is how author (MrCow) did it and it is possible to check in same manner now:


    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ngeon-scaling?


    Question:
    Also don't really agree with your class rankings - how did you test those?

    Answer:
    About a year ago with a large mix of level 20 characters in Black Anvil Mines. I ran to Edgan and let him cast Harm on the various characters. Being it does fixed damage it was easy to see the change in scaling between various classes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Fighter gets harder scaling than monk? thats just wrong.
    Fighter gets less scaling then monk (at least during the date of testing).

    To clarify:
    Scaling is from easiest (less scaling) to hardest (most scaling).


    p.s. Turbine never did secret of scaling depending on class, its even in patch notes.

    https://www.ddo.com/en/game/release-...tch-2-official

    Low level monks may find dungeon scaling a little more forgiving.
    Last edited by Kir1; 10-01-2013 at 07:38 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member delsoboss's Avatar
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    Something changed with the scaling of elite quests at least: static party with pure fvs, pure paladin and arti/ranger.
    Using the Twisted Talisman in on elite at level i was getting hit for 31 and now (after U19 i think) i'm hit for 24.
    It's always just us three, it's always on elite and it changed a lot (from +23% damage to -4%).

    EDIT: i guess that's a way for the game to say we suck

  11. #11
    Community Member Rakuda13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Noone bothered to check and reply? Disappointing.


    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ngeon-scaling?


    Only Solo difficulty (such as from the solo-only quests like An Explosive Situation) and Raid areas (including the Subterrane) do not scale. Elite was considered to have no scaling but that decision was changed before it hit the live servers.

    Keep in mind that I only have rough sets of data to work with, but I'll give my best approximations.

    The following effect scaling:
    Character level compared to quest - Being 3 levels under on normal may set the elemental damage to ~20% scaling while being 5 levels over on normal may set the elemental damage to ~40% scaling.
    Class composition - In the higher levels being a full fledged Barbarian of equal level to a quest may put you around ~25% scaling while a full fledged Sorcerer of equal level would be closer to ~32%. A 1/2 Barbarian 1/2 Sorcerer multiclass would be ~28.5% scaling.
    Player, Hireling, or Gold-seal Hireling - Players count for full. Hirelings count as 1/4th a player. Gold-seal hirelings count as nothing (or a very small amount).
    Difficulty Setting - A full fledged cleric that is 5 or more levels over the quest would have scaling be - 20% on casual (half of normal), 41% on normal, 54% on hard, 71% on elite.
    Amount of players - On normal, add up between the players in the group. For instance, an equal level Barbarian (~25%), Sorcerer (~33%), and hireling Cleric (~7.75%) should net around ~65.75% scaling. Scaling should stop at 100%, but for some reason due to rounding up in various places can exceed that.


    Class scaling, from the ones who have the least scaling to those with the most scaling (at level 20):
    Barbarian
    Rogue
    Fighter
    Ranger
    Bard
    Paladin
    Monk
    Cleric
    Favored Soul
    Wizard
    Sorcerer
    Alright Arits dont scale at all :P

  12. #12
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuda13 View Post
    Alright Arits dont scale at all :P
    Druids also aren't mentioned. Most likely weren't out when this data was gathered.. a while back.

  13. #13
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Noone bothered to check and reply? Disappointing.


    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ngeon-scaling?


    Only Solo difficulty (such as from the solo-only quests like An Explosive Situation) and Raid areas (including the Subterrane) do not scale. Elite was considered to have no scaling but that decision was changed before it hit the live servers.

    Keep in mind that I only have rough sets of data to work with, but I'll give my best approximations.

    The following effect scaling:
    Character level compared to quest - Being 3 levels under on normal may set the elemental damage to ~20% scaling while being 5 levels over on normal may set the elemental damage to ~40% scaling.
    Class composition - In the higher levels being a full fledged Barbarian of equal level to a quest may put you around ~25% scaling while a full fledged Sorcerer of equal level would be closer to ~32%. A 1/2 Barbarian 1/2 Sorcerer multiclass would be ~28.5% scaling.
    Player, Hireling, or Gold-seal Hireling - Players count for full. Hirelings count as 1/4th a player. Gold-seal hirelings count as nothing (or a very small amount).
    Difficulty Setting - A full fledged cleric that is 5 or more levels over the quest would have scaling be - 20% on casual (half of normal), 41% on normal, 54% on hard, 71% on elite.
    Amount of players - On normal, add up between the players in the group. For instance, an equal level Barbarian (~25%), Sorcerer (~33%), and hireling Cleric (~7.75%) should net around ~65.75% scaling. Scaling should stop at 100%, but for some reason due to rounding up in various places can exceed that.


    Class scaling, from the ones who have the least scaling to those with the most scaling (at level 20):
    Barbarian
    Rogue
    Fighter
    Ranger
    Bard
    Paladin
    Monk
    Cleric
    Favored Soul
    Wizard
    Sorcerer
    Which way is this sorted?
    If I need a meatshield hire that minimally effect scaling, I want the Barb or the Pally?

  14. #14
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Which way is this sorted?
    If I need a meatshield hire that minimally effect scaling, I want the Barb or the Pally?
    Lowest scaling at top, highest at bottom.

    You want the barb hire. More dps (hah, I funny) but less scaling.

    Although, hires work differently irrc.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Which way is this sorted?
    If I need a meatshield hire that minimally effect scaling, I want the Barb or the Pally?
    Barb = Lowest Scaling.

    Sorc = Highest Scaling.

    As for which hireling to use, that depends on you. The Barb will likely take more damage and require more healing, but kill/draw agro better.

  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    I don't know where this list came from but I can tell you right now fighters bring more scaling than rangers.

    So do paladins, and that's just dumb as they're the worst class in the game.

  17. #17
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So do paladins, and that's just dumb as they're the worst class in the game.
    In Teh_Troll we trust. (At least as far as paladin hate is concerned.)

    Also, I had an argument with someone a couple of days back... I'm missing something. In what alternate reality is a paladin a "Heavy hitter"?!

  18. #18
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    In Teh_Troll we trust. (At least as far as paladin hate is concerned.)

    Also, I had an argument with someone a couple of days back... I'm missing something. In what alternate reality is a paladin a "Heavy hitter"?!
    LOLz . . . there's a player on my server who used to always have LFMs up for "Heavy DPS" where the only class choices were fighter, barb, and paladin. That always brought a chuckle.

    It's "big hit" syndrome . . . people so one big number (smites) here and there and they think that equates to high-DPS. It doesn't.
    .

  19. #19
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    LOLz . . . there's a player on my server who used to always have LFMs up for "Heavy DPS" where the only class choices were fighter, barb, and paladin. That always brought a chuckle.
    Does this LFM still circulate? If so, what server?

    I gotta have some fun with this ^^

  20. #20
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    <sarcasm>This scaling is clearly well balanced</sarcasm>. When I soloed kobold island quests, they were much easier to "solo" (with a hireling) as a barbarian compared to soloing with a solo-oriented sorcerer. Mobs had much less hps in addition to hitting like wet racks, any random hireling-healer kept the barbarian easily topped. If I had silver flames, a stack of those would have sufficed as well. Sorc had much more trouble, as the point generators died so much faster while he was defending others, no way to get even close to same results with him.

    So, if a barb can solo a quest with heavy potion use, but when you add a sorcerer, the barb suddenly has trouble killing the 1/3-1/2 mobs left for him, somethings badly wrong. Current scaling supports soloing and demotes partying.

    The top solo toons could solo the quests even without scaling, and those who wanted to, could still do it. But, those who choose to play DDO instead of Nethack prefer to do it because there are other people around. Partying is more fun than solo, and partying should not be punished.

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