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  1. #21
    Community Member DyrtNap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    Remember that with 19.2, Riddle of Fire additionally grants 1% force/fire crit. Even if Shield of Condemnation weren't pretty worthless - and IMO any guard effect that's not 100% free like Fire Shield is a poor choice - Riddle of Fire is a must-have.
    Hadn't heard that I would agree that pushes it back in the lead. Especially considering I only get hit probably 30% of the time so the proc is substantially devalued.

    I'm gonna do some solo EE and solo raid testing and depending on how it plays out may write up a build heavily credited to you for fleshy fans and former PMs.

    Very well written and I'm very much obliged for all your hard work.

  2. #22
    Community Member Kyshara's Avatar
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    Nice thread, I always wanted to roll a wiz shiradi before this update but I chose sorcerer. It was my second life.

    I would like to ask you if Just Rewards from FvS is really necessary. I'm asking because Im going to my 9th life and I don't want to repeat lives (I was going to make Wiz 18 Monk 2, so I could use the +20 heart to get a class I still don't have PL,, because if I get three classes I won't be able to get another class and I already have fvs, monk and wiz PL).

    I know 10 temp SP is awesome, but...from your experience, can you tell me how much mana Just Rewards saves from your pool? Like, you run EE What Goes Up up to the first shrine where ur sitting around 300 sp (without just rewards), with just rewards how much mana you would have?

    I'm about to TR tomorrow and I really loved your build.
    Thanks in advance.
    --Cannith Player--

    Main toon: Kyshara of All Trades (current 25th life - completionist/epic completionist) - Shadar-kai Wizard 15 FvS 3 Monk 2 (Getting SK PLs -_-)

    FvS, I will be back soon

    My EE FvS build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...S-Caster-Build

  3. #23
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyshara View Post
    Nice thread, I always wanted to roll a wiz shiradi before this update but I chose sorcerer. It was my second life.

    I would like to ask you if Just Rewards from FvS is really necessary. I'm asking because Im going to my 9th life and I don't want to repeat lives (I was going to make Wiz 18 Monk 2, so I could use the +20 heart to get a class I still don't have PL,, because if I get three classes I won't be able to get another class and I already have fvs, monk and wiz PL).

    I know 10 temp SP is awesome, but...from your experience, can you tell me how much mana Just Rewards saves from your pool? Like, you run EE What Goes Up up to the first shrine where ur sitting around 300 sp (without just rewards), with just rewards how much mana you would have?

    I'm about to TR tomorrow and I really loved your build.
    Thanks in advance.
    Just Rewards makes MM SLA gain you 8 mana, CM SLA gain you 2 mana. If you double-efficient Maximize, Maxed MM spell only costs you 1 mana, Maxed CM spell only costs 12 mana. Between SLAs and spells, even maximizing your spells, your missile rotation costs pretty much zero mana. This can add up to thousands of mana saved depending on how long you go without shrining.

    I've done EE WGU several times with using only one shrine (going back to the one just before the outside of the glacier). If groups would invis past the first part more, I could easily do it without shrining even once. In most quests I usually only shrine to get Tea back or after boss fight(s) where I had to Reconstruct a lot. Even shortmanning EE Through A Mirror, I can do the whole thing including the Beholder and Auralace and only shrine before the end fight. I can do EE Tor without shrining, though unless I'm showing off I shrine before dragons for Tea. And this is with Maximize on - if you don't use maximize, your DPS will be lower but your missile rotation is beyond free - 3/4 gain you mana, paying for part of Reconstruct. If there's a spellsinger in the group, you'll be full on SP most of the time.

    To me, the whole reason to play shiradi is for mana efficiency, and Just Rewards takes that efficiency to a whole new level. And let's not forget AoV also gains you 30 force spellpower, 4+% force crit (depending on number of FVS levels), and the full 1 universal spellpower/2 mana per AP spent.
    Last edited by cdr; 09-18-2013 at 05:44 PM.

  4. #24
    Community Member DyrtNap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyshara View Post
    Nice thread, I always wanted to roll a wiz shiradi before this update but I chose sorcerer. It was my second life.

    I would like to ask you if Just Rewards from FvS is really necessary. I'm asking because Im going to my 9th life and I don't want to repeat lives (I was going to make Wiz 18 Monk 2, so I could use the +20 heart to get a class I still don't have PL,, because if I get three classes I won't be able to get another class and I already have fvs, monk and wiz PL).

    I know 10 temp SP is awesome, but...from your experience, can you tell me how much mana Just Rewards saves from your pool? Like, you run EE What Goes Up up to the first shrine where ur sitting around 300 sp (without just rewards), with just rewards how much mana you would have?

    I'm about to TR tomorrow and I really loved your build.
    Thanks in advance.
    Honestly you would be crazy to play w/o it once you have your force crit up above 20%. Just like Cdr said you can basically run the entirety of most quests w/o shrining or 1 before boss for tea. I doubt I have the gear for solo EE WGU yet it but for example I can easily solo EH WGU w/o shrining with very little invising. Its nearly limitless DPS if you're smart about how you use spells. If you're just going to hit 20 and TR again it isn't a big deal because you won't have the crit to make it all that terribly awesome until higher lvls even if you did take fvs lives early. But if you want to play the character for a while...

    Thats my mostly useless 2c anyway

  5. #25
    Community Member Kyshara's Avatar
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    Ya ya, thanks for the replies guys.
    I just Tr'ed my toon on Lamannia and checked for myself (wiz 16 fvs 2 monk 2) its insanely awesome xD

    I plan to TR yes, but not in 1 or 2 months. I want to do a lot of stuff, solo a lot of stuff and get all tokens, gears, etc.

    TBH the life I had most fun was on Shiradi (my 2nd life) and my previous life with Sireth.

    I ran EE LOD (easy, I know, but just for testing). I used everything maxxed but I feel casting MM, CM and FM without Quicken (I use it on SLA ofc xD) is just too slow (maybe I got accostumated with sorc casting) and sometimes is nearly impossible to avoid getting hit and that means your concentration wont save you against 200+ hits.
    So what to do in this case?

    Thanks in advance
    --Cannith Player--

    Main toon: Kyshara of All Trades (current 25th life - completionist/epic completionist) - Shadar-kai Wizard 15 FvS 3 Monk 2 (Getting SK PLs -_-)

    FvS, I will be back soon

    My EE FvS build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...S-Caster-Build

  6. #26
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    I just accept non-SLA MM/CM being interrupted if I get hit by EE melee. I have enough concentration that ranged/spells pretty much never interrupt, and if you're getting hit much by EE melee you're in trouble anyway.

    Ideally find a perch, or failing that cast Waves of Exhaustion and/or kite through Sleet Storm/Fog. If it's just 1-2 high HP guys, use PWS/PWB/Dance.
    Last edited by cdr; 09-18-2013 at 11:57 PM.

  7. #27
    Community Member Kalevor's Avatar
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    Hello guys,
    I've been thinking a lot of time about this build because my wizard20 shiradi has a lot of lack in the survivability department, low TS, and i kind of like your idea Cdr. I think i can survive without the lvl 9 spells and clearly the double save of sp with maximize plus just rewards is key... Said that i've pretty much solved my distribution of enhacements, feats and skill points... but i'm now figuring out the equipment, because your propossal for the equipment is not completly of my taste...
    I 'd like to know your opinion about some changes:
    1/ i have fom boots from von and i think are lifesavers in most situation if you are playing solo, so i'd like to put green +45hp somewhere else. I like to have always max hp.
    2/ Tod archmage set... i know it's a pain to fit it but offers something quite unique nowdays... improve our critical multiplier *0,5. This is a lot of dps i think, correct me if i'm wrong and i think i can live without the ring of shadows... using maybe boots from road.

    I'll put a final distribution of my equipment if i can figure out one that i like but i'd like to know if you think tod set worth the pain.


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  8. #28
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalevor View Post
    1/ i have fom boots from von and i think are lifesavers in most situation if you are playing solo, so i'd like to put green +45hp somewhere else. I like to have always max hp.
    2/ Tod archmage set... i know it's a pain to fit it but offers something quite unique nowdays... improve our critical multiplier *0,5. This is a lot of dps i think, correct me if i'm wrong and i think i can live without the ring of shadows... using maybe boots from road.
    1) I don't have Delving Boots (despite probably 80+ VONs), but I do swap to Epic Rock Boots for slip immunity. I don't think FOM really does much for WF beyond slip immunity anyway. EE Spiked Boots might be even better for the balance when facing stomping giants.

    Anyway, the gear setup is so well integrated that any swap is going to be painful. The cha/spellcraft is the least painful loss, and it's in the cloak slot because Jeweled Cloak is my most frequent swap, most often in FOT when the Reaver is on the loose. You could probably swap the goggles to HP and the boots to SP though, since losing SP is likely less painful. If you mean running Delving Boots full time, I definitely don't think that's worthwhile for WF. (It's also worth noting that I have a dualbox to FOM me when soloing, and there's frequently someone with FOM in groups.)

    2) As far as I'm aware, the TOD ring crit bonuses do not work at all in U19. I don't have Rahkir's, but I tested the Air Savant set out some and it does not apply any extra multiplier.
    Last edited by cdr; 09-20-2013 at 12:49 PM.

  9. #29
    Community Member Kalevor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post

    2) As far as I'm aware, the TOD ring crit bonuses do not work at all in U19. I don't have Rahkir's, but I tested the Air Savant set out some and it does not apply any extra multiplier.
    damn! well this make my life easier now...

    Still, i though that the text and effect of tod sets were modified for the u19 to work fine with the enhacements pass, so it's weird that they let it be that way...
    Last edited by Kalevor; 09-20-2013 at 01:53 PM. Reason: clarification
    Proud officer of Zuleicos (Thelanis) - Mikaelus (Melee) ; Akhnaroth (Caster) ; Kraneo (Healbot) ; Leonardu (Melee) ; Tormentazul (Melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum
    Come play Dungeons and Dragons! In heroic play you will face the evil minions of Demons... When and if you make it to Epic levels you face even greater threats. Threats like... giant rats and wolves!

  10. #30
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    1) I don't have Delving Boots (despite probably 80+ VONs), but I do swap to Epic Rock Boots for slip immunity. I don't think FOM really does much for WF beyond slip immunity anyway. EE Spiked Boots might be even better for the balance when facing stomping giants.

    Anyway, the gear setup is so well integrated that any swap is going to be painful. The cha/spellcraft is the least painful loss, and it's in the cloak slot because Jeweled Cloak is my most frequent swap, most often in FOT when the Reaver is on the loose. You could probably swap the goggles to HP and the boots to SP though, since losing SP is likely less painful. If you mean running Delving Boots full time, I definitely don't think that's worthwhile for WF. (It's also worth noting that I have a dualbox to FOM me when soloing, and there's frequently someone with FOM in groups.)

    2) As far as I'm aware, the TOD ring crit bonuses do not work at all in U19. I don't have Rahkir's, but I tested the Air Savant set out some and it does not apply any extra multiplier.
    You could probably drop skullduggery altogether and put +6 cha/+4 int skills on a conc-op GS.

  11. #31
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    You could probably drop skullduggery altogether and put +6 cha/+4 int skills on a conc-op GS.
    What are you dropping Skullduggery in exchange for, though? It does pretty much the same thing as say, a lootgen - +20 to a skill and a green slot for w/e effect - with double +6 excep skills on top. You'd not only be losing at least +2 on two important skill categories - and also either have to lose more or have worse additional greensteel effects - but also be losing the +20 and the slot.

  12. #32
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    I don't feel like +20 repair is super essential, especially on an int based toon. On my sorc, I'm run dual fire/kinetic lore one handers rather than a thaumaturgy stick, which means I need an extra slot for sage's ring (92 potency). Avoiding skullduggery lets me do that, plus it's one less EE i need to farm out. On a wiz with thaumaturgy, you could still probably use the extra slot for, maybe sage's spectacles (decent combustion spellpower/fire lore) depending on how often you use scorching ray.

  13. #33

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    My Wizard is True Neutral, is it possible to take Monk levels? If not, would Wizard 18/FvS 2 work better than pure Wizard? Also, I don't get how using Stay Frosty is better than Double Rainbow, I hardly ever see stuff get slowed. I see way more CC through random effects than anything else.

  14. #34
    Community Member Franke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You_Are_All_Slaves View Post
    My Wizard is True Neutral, is it possible to take Monk levels? If not, would Wizard 18/FvS 2 work better than pure Wizard? Also, I don't get how using Stay Frosty is better than Double Rainbow, I hardly ever see stuff get slowed. I see way more CC through random effects than anything else.
    No, you need to be lawful to take monk levels.

  15. #35
    Community Member DyrtNap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You_Are_All_Slaves View Post
    My Wizard is True Neutral, is it possible to take Monk levels? If not, would Wizard 18/FvS 2 work better than pure Wizard? Also, I don't get how using Stay Frosty is better than Double Rainbow, I hardly ever see stuff get slowed. I see way more CC through random effects than anything else.
    Yes its definitely better but not nearly as survivable as 16/2/2 (or 15/3/2). Imo wiz capstones are just not good enough to beat out a nearly guaranteed -10 sp and that isn't even mentioning all the monkness(if taken), fire/force/alignment SP & Crit. I think ultimately it comes down to what do you like to do. e.g. If you like to solo EE's and Raids than I wouldn't suggest 18/2.

    I say that having played 18/2 up until a week ago and am SOOOOO glad I made the change. I like it so much that I think I'm actually gonna TR into a WF now that ottos boxes are back. I mention it because I swore I wouldn't TR or ever play a WF a long time ago and until now have never been truly tempted. The PM version of this is awesome and a powerhouse in its own right. I love seeing incorp, dodge, dodge, displaced, incorp, incorp... but it has one tiny handicap that prevents it from reaching true greatness. That weakness is only being able to burst heal for 200ish is just not enough during "oh shiz" moments that will still happen even when your chance to be missed is so high.

    Re: Alignment - Why not just spend a few TP and buy an alignment change I think they are 20% off right now?

  16. #36
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    There's no compelling reason to go pure wizard (or sorc) currently. Fvs offers the +10 mana on missile spells and a lot of force spellpower/crit. Monk offers a ton of durability. A fvs splash would offer you a great deal more mana than pure, but I really recommend both monk and fvs. Consider an alignment change token.

  17. #37
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    Default Mondays patch

    From the release notes from Mondays patch:

    "Each Core Enhancement in the Henshin Mystic tree except for Serenity now also gives +1% Fire and Force Spell Critical Chance. Serenity gives an additional +5% Fire and Force Spell Critical Chance."

    So that's any extra 1% crit chance free of charge ...

  18. #38
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    4) Finally, why is Scorcing Ray so high on your list? Do you run out of things to cast between MM SLA, MM, FM SLA and FM so you need Scorcing to fill the void or do you consider it better than one of those 4?
    While I cannot account for the other questions, Scorching ray at this level does shoot 3 rays. Each again procs. And it has an extended range than MM. It is something I would certainly run with on a build like this for long range proc power.
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  19. #39
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dajg View Post
    From the release notes from Mondays patch:

    "Each Core Enhancement in the Henshin Mystic tree except for Serenity now also gives +1% Fire and Force Spell Critical Chance. Serenity gives an additional +5% Fire and Force Spell Critical Chance."

    So that's any extra 1% crit chance free of charge ...
    So ridiculous, balance is for nerds right devs?

    I'm about to go int based on my sorc and grab a monk splash. Yes, turbine wants you to play like a wizard that badly.

  20. #40
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    Looks like a great build! The divine splashing on arcanes seems to be a really cool way to go in combo with shiradi. A lot of different setups you can do.

    I was thinking of doing a FVS splash like this but I decided to try something different and go with a cleric splash to try something new.

    My wizard right now is 15 wizard/4 cleric/1 rouge. He is also an elf and I didn't want to TR again into a warforged so I wanted to come up with something that could be in undead form but get more options and a boost in healing. I figured I'd share a bit about it since this seems like a good thread for it.

    After looking through the Divine Disciple tree I really wanted to try using that because it seemed pretty nice even though it doesn't have the temp SP thing like FVS does.

    So far I have been loving it even though it lacks evasion like the OP's build. I could of got evasion if I would of only went 14 wizard but I really wanted that extra class feat and to have a couple level 8 spells.

    The idea was to be in wraith form, and taking the tier 5 shroud improvement in pale master to get even more incorporeal. Its either 30 or 35% with the shroud improvement. Not sure which one because it says 35% in the enhancement tree but says 30% when you look at the form description in your buff bar. Either way its very nice.

    I took just enough to get the evocation missile SLA's from the arch mage tree. Then I went into the clerics divine disciple tree for the extra negative spell power boost, more universal critical chance and also took the negative energy burst SLA.

    Note that the negative energy burst SLA goes off your cleric caster level so it doesn't hit as hard as your normal wizard version but for 7 SP a pop it heals pretty decent with the extra spell power. Non crit it was hitting for an average of 100. On a crit it was hitting for an average of about 200. Highest crit I seen so far was around 280. Not bad for 7 spell points. This is with Maximize and empower on it.

    I also put a few points into acrobat for the faster sneaking on tier 1 and a few points into radiant servant for the wand and scroll mastery on tier 1. Obviously the 1 rouge level allowed me to put max ranks into Hide and Move silent which syncs up with wraith form which gives you a big boost to those skills as well. The wand/scroll mastery also effects clickies which gave my circle of hatred harm clickie a decent boost in how much it heals for plus being able to scroll heal party members better if need be.

    I did not take any racial enhancements because elf didn't really offer me anything and obviously I needed the points for the class trees.

    Another cool thing which I didn't even realize until I did the build was being able to load inflict light and mod wounds into my cleric spells, which you can target on yourself and have a couple more options for healing in undead form. They can be a little bit costly with meta magics on but they hit surprisingly well with the amount of negative energy spell power I have. I have not tried them without meta magics yet but I would imagine that it would still be very nice for healing in between fights.

    Overall I've had a lot of fun with this build and just wanted to share what I've seen so far using the cleric splash.

    PS: Went back and tested out inflict light and mod wounds without any meta magics on. They still hit pretty decent for the very low SP cost, and there cooldowns are very short so they can be spammed on yourself pretty quickly.
    Last edited by KingofDiamondz; 09-28-2013 at 11:07 PM.
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