Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 212
  1. #21
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,643

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    While we understand that there is going to be some pain with large scale changes, in terms of build diversity the enhancement pass has been successful, overall.

    Before Update 19, most builds broke down class levels along pure 20, or 18/2, or 12/6/2. There were a few more variations on those themes, but they tended to be exceptions rather than the rule. It doesn't take much searching of the forums to see that there is increased variation in builds today. Some of that may settle down to a some more recognizable builds and breakdowns, but we're fairly confident the variety and uniqueness in builds is likely to be greater in the future than the past.

    We do recognize that Sorcerers could use some help, and they are the first class planned to get an entirely new enhancement tree. If there are specific Sorcerer abilities from U18 enhancements that you feel are missing and vitally need to be restored to Sorcerers, do feel free to submit bugs saying so (using the link in my signature).
    Hmmm I thought I read somewhere that cleric was getting the next tree (warpriest). Does this mean 2 trees are coming at the same time? Or did I miss-remember something (again)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    I’m only nerfing you now so I can buff you later.

  2. #22
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We do recognize that Sorcerers could use some help, and they are the first class planned to get an entirely new enhancement tree.
    *cough*Warpriest*cough*patch 1*cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    ... in terms of build diversity the enhancement pass has been successful, overall.
    Depends on what you're looking at. Yes, viable/optimal level splits have changed and some class combos that were dreadful before are interesting now. However, the gating & points spent in tree mechanics ensure that many folks take the same enhancements. Making a pure Wizzy? There's not actually a whole lot to differentiate between one and another enhancement wise. Want that 2 racial con bonus on your Warforged? You're spending AP on fortification weather you need it or not, and spending AP in the race tree weather you want to or not.

    Options have changed for sure, but I'm still on the fence about wether diversity was added or simply shifted. Change the "points in tree" to "total spent" and diversity will explode.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 09-10-2013 at 03:38 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  3. #23
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,023

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    While we understand that there is going to be some pain with large scale changes, in terms of build diversity the enhancement pass has been successful, overall.

    Before Update 19, most builds broke down class levels along pure 20, or 18/2, or 12/6/2. There were a few more variations on those themes, but they tended to be exceptions rather than the rule. It doesn't take much searching of the forums to see that there is increased variation in builds today. Some of that may settle down to a some more recognizable builds and breakdowns, but we're fairly confident the variety and uniqueness in builds is likely to be greater in the future than the past.

    We do recognize that Sorcerers could use some help, and they are the first class planned to get an entirely new enhancement tree. If there are specific Sorcerer abilities from U18 enhancements that you feel are missing and vitally need to be restored to Sorcerers, do feel free to submit bugs saying so (using the link in my signature).
    My biggest issue with the trees is that there is no class tree. I don't like to have to take enhancements through trees just to get what should be class specific. Good examples are LOH in Sacred Defender when I want to focus on KOTC and extend rage in Occult Slayer when I want to focus on Frenzied Berserker. I like how you can pick and choose enhancements through multiple prestiges, but this is one reason why some people say having to take forced options. There should be a class tree like there is a racial tree.

  4. #24
    Hero
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    SW United States
    Posts
    2,776

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    You don't need to be savant, you can pick any enhancement from any tree. You don't need to pick all core abilities from one tree, you are not forced to fill up one tree complete. Pick what do you want.
    Um, might want to check that again. Once you select a element, depending on which one you chose, it locks you out of the opposed element. You cannot "Pick any enhancement from any tree" and you indeed have to choose one form of savant to be. So yes you HAVE to be a savant as there are no other options. While you might gain a few things here and there, in terms of versatility, the options have drastically diminished for Sorc's.

  5. #25
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    While we understand that there is going to be some pain with large scale changes, in terms of build diversity the enhancement pass has been successful, overall.

    Before Update 19, most builds broke down class levels along pure 20, or 18/2, or 12/6/2. There were a few more variations on those themes, but they tended to be exceptions rather than the rule. It doesn't take much searching of the forums to see that there is increased variation in builds today. Some of that may settle down to a some more recognizable builds and breakdowns, but we're fairly confident the variety and uniqueness in builds is likely to be greater in the future than the past.

    We do recognize that Sorcerers could use some help, and they are the first class planned to get an entirely new enhancement tree. If there are specific Sorcerer abilities from U18 enhancements that you feel are missing and vitally need to be restored to Sorcerers, do feel free to submit bugs saying so (using the link in my signature).
    My concern is that pure builds are at a disadvantage because most of the classes only have two enhancement trees. Barbarians, rangers, rogues and clerics and monks are very versatile, but that's only because I have 3 trees to choose from. It should also be noted that multiclassing gives one the ability to access the trees of up to 3 different classes. So under the current system it's more advantageous to multi-class than it used to be. Thus, pure characters are at a disadvantage in terms of flexibility and versatility.

    In other words, I feel that we need more class trees.

  6. #26
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,556

    Default

    [QUOTE=Coyopa;5095917

    At this point, I have:

    - a 23rd level first life bard
    - a 24th level second life monk
    - a 16th level second life cleric
    - a 20th level first life barbarian
    - a 25th level second life ranger
    - a 25th level first life druid
    - a 16th level third life rogue
    - a 16th level second life ranger/monk/rogue (first life was fighter/monk/rogue)
    - a 22nd level first life wizard
    - a 16th level first life fighter
    - a 14th level first life rogue/monk/fighter
    - a 20th level first life artificer

    TR'ing does not make you a good player. Rather, the breadth of knowledge of classes, quests, monsters, and tactics does. I'd say I am doing pretty well on that.[/QUOTE]

    You could've had a completionist and won! What a waste of time...



  7. #27
    Hero
    and Mo Bro H'ro
    ComicRelief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    486

    Default What About Fighters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    *snip*
    We do recognize that Sorcerers could use some help, and they are the first class planned to get an entirely new enhancement tree....
    *snip*
    The deafening silence I have heard for "non-specialist" (kensei) and "non-sword-and-board" (stalwart defender) fighters remains, well, deafening. My L25 TWF still has 43 AP left to spend and essentially nothing (of value) to spend them on. Since he is not a "specialist", the entire kensei tree contains nothing* worthwhile. Since he does not use a shield, most of the stalwart defender tree has little value as well (though if the core 2 and core 3 enhancements were swapped, it would open up much more). To be fair, there were some enhancements worth spending AP on in SD, so I did. But there is still NOTHING for the TWF, THF, or ranged fighter builds.

    While I'm happy that sorc is being upgraded (as is warpriest), how about at least acknowledging that fighter needs more than just kensei and defender? Arguably the most flexible of classes, it is a tragedy that only "specialists" and "S&B-ers" were addressed in the new EN system.

    {Not that anyone listens to me...}


    ----
    * OK, OK - the two "crit" ENs would be nice, but at L3 and L4, they are not worth dumping 10/20 AP into other worthless ENs just to get them, even if I do have the AP to spend.
    "...At least it tells us they understand our language; they're just not willing to speak to us in it. -Who knew they were French?"

  8. #28
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZTBt7oar9w
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We do recognize that Sorcerers could use some help, and they are the first class planned to get an entirely new enhancement tree. If there are specific Sorcerer abilities from U18 enhancements that you feel are missing and vitally need to be restored to Sorcerers, do feel free to submit bugs saying so (using the link in my signature).
    Really? My sorc seems a lot more powerful than in the life I did before the change...
    and in heroic levels.... maximised empowered acid sprays and niacs at level 3... wow!
    I was thinking sorcs have become... overpowered.
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
    It is okay to be "merry": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOOKb-DFZs
    I just Keep quiet and think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP8M06A8W0

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    118

    Exclamation Fundamentally Flawed

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    While we understand that there is going to be some pain with large scale changes, in terms of build diversity the enhancement pass has been successful, overall.

    Before Update 19, most builds broke down class levels along pure 20, or 18/2, or 12/6/2. There were a few more variations on those themes, but they tended to be exceptions rather than the rule. It doesn't take much searching of the forums to see that there is increased variation in builds today. Some of that may settle down to a some more recognizable builds and breakdowns, but we're fairly confident the variety and uniqueness in builds is likely to be greater in the future than the past.

    We do recognize that Sorcerers could use some help, and they are the first class planned to get an entirely new enhancement tree. If there are specific Sorcerer abilities from U18 enhancements that you feel are missing and vitally need to be restored to Sorcerers, do feel free to submit bugs saying so (using the link in my signature).
    The problem is your analysis as always is utter flawed and therefore your conclusion that you solved an issue ‘by creating diversity’ is an illusion – even ignoring that there was no issue to begin with.

    Yes, there are different class splits now – but they are splitting for the same reason they did before: around the break points of the enhancement system. Previously 20, 18/2 & 12/6/2 were popular – now you see 16/2/2, 12/4/4, etc.

    That is not increased variation it is merely changed variation – whether it is the blinding arrogance of the Sun or your own misunderstanding is irrelevant. Your inability to realize this is why the pass has been so bemoaned. Worse you deliberately discarded options as per the OP’s post.

    There was no good reason not to ensure that previous options remained available. It is lazy work and you should be ashamed.

    [Let us not also forget that you essentially broke Dragonmarks, ToD sets and numerous other abilities]

  10. #30
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,023

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    My concern is that pure builds are at a disadvantage because most of the classes only have two enhancement trees. Barbarians, rangers, rogues and clerics and monks are very versatile, but that's only because I have 3 trees to choose from. It should also be noted that multiclassing gives one the ability to access the trees of up to 3 different classes. So under the current system it's more advantageous to multi-class than it used to be. Thus, pure characters are at a disadvantage in terms of flexibility and versatility.

    In other words, I feel that we need more class trees.
    I agree with this. I am very happy with my pure barb, but I tried leveling a pure paladin last life and, although with some twink TR gear, I still found it to be lacking in dps. before the enhancement pass, I had gone through 3 lives of paladin on another TR and didn't see what people were talking about paladin dps. I thought I built a very good dps paladin that was very good at self sufficiency. im not even getting close to what my other character was able to do on my current TR. this life i mixed 2 levels of monk and now i have 6 trees i can spend points on. i am seeing a huge difference in dps with the extra tree options. the current enhancements definitely favors multi classing over pure.

  11. #31
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    My concern is that pure builds are at a disadvantage because most of the classes only have two enhancement trees. Barbarians, rangers, rogues and clerics and monks are very versatile, but that's only because I have 3 trees to choose from. It should also be noted that multiclassing gives one the ability to access the trees of up to 3 different classes. So under the current system it's more advantageous to multi-class than it used to be. Thus, pure characters are at a disadvantage in terms of flexibility and versatility.

    In other words, I feel that we need more class trees.
    Clerics = ONE Tree - Radiant Servant - The other two are absolute trash!

    Barbarians = FORCED into putting points into ALL 3 Trees {For Rage} - Trees are NOT Viable on their own!

    Rangers = WHY do I have to put points into Tempest to get Sprint Boost - Why Devs....Why?

    Rogues = Rogue Mech has LOST trap skills gained from the Original Prestige - We still get the Improved yes BUT we're down on what we could get before.
    Acrobats and Assassins are FORCED into Putting Points into Mech to get anywhere near Viable Trap Skills {Tier 2 for Skill Boost is a JOKE!}.

    Monks = What is the Point exactly of Henshin Mystic? - My Monk is NOT a CASTER!


    Now to the Classes you missed out:

    Paladins - HotD and KotC are Still Mutually Exclusive!
    DoS costs MORE Points than it is Possible to Have - This is Before you look at what you can take from KotC/HotD and/or Racial!

    Fighters - Won't be surprised if Stalwart is as bad as DoS for AP requirements {Kensai's Nice though}.

    Artificers - OMG What have the Devs done here?
    Battle Engineer has been Nerfed beyond belief!

    Druids - Better than Before but that's not saying much.

    FavSouls - Rofl - This has to be a Joke Right?

    Wizards - Yay...Now I'm being told off for NOT having Zombie Form on My Archmage - This is what you call Progress Devs? Really?
    Let me say right now....I DO NOT WANT TO BE UNDEAD!

    Sorcs - My Sorcs who were admittedly gimps in the first place weren't difficult to set up with the New Enhancements but as I barely play them I'll have to leave this one to others.



    P.S. As for Multiclassing - Yes you have Access to Multiple Trees But chances are you're still going to be heavily invested in One {poss two} and most will be there just as a "Look what you could have".

  12. #32
    Hero
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    SW United States
    Posts
    2,776

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlmGhandi View Post
    Really? My sorc seems a lot more powerful than in the life I did before the change...
    and in heroic levels.... maximised empowered acid sprays and niacs at level 3... wow!
    I was thinking sorcs have become... overpowered.
    So your going to use an example of your Sorc at level 3 as reasoning to state that Sorc's are overpowered? Ok. Thought I had heard it all, apparently not.

    Plus this thread isn't regarding relative power. It's a commentary on the the issue that the EP has marginalized diversity in Sorc's by forcing them choose a Savant tree whereas before the EP, you could choose elements you wanted to specialize in without having to choose a Savant tree and the inherit drawbacks that come with them. Some people would much rather be fairly good at 3-4 elements rather than super powerful in 1.

  13. #33
    2014 DDO Players Council
    SirValentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Korea (temporarily)
    Posts
    5,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    Hmmm I thought I read somewhere that cleric was getting the next tree (warpriest). Does this mean 2 trees are coming at the same time? Or did I miss-remember something (again)?
    No, he spoke most carefully. Cleric/FvS are NOT getting another tree ADDED. Instead, they are getting an existing tree removed and then done over. Supposedly SOONER than Sorc get their NEW tree.

    This is great for the melee Clr/FvS. I don't begrudge them having a tree.

    I just wish they really had gone and ADDED a Warpriest tree, instead of simply replacing one tree with another. Thiss will in fact DECREASE options for any NON-MELEE Clr/FvS.

  14. #34
    2014 DDO Players Council
    SirValentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Korea (temporarily)
    Posts
    5,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Clerics = ONE Tree - Radiant Servant - The other two are absolute trash!
    Protection does have a few good things, along with a lot of junk.

    Divine Disciple, on the other hand, beats up Radiant Servant and steals his lunch money every day of the week.

    Sure, RS is fine if you want to be a useless hjealbot, but DD is AWESOME. I've got a few more TRs to do before I get back to Cleric, but DD has me excited to be there.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 09-10-2013 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Fixed spelling error

  15. #35
    Uber Uber Completionist
    2014 DDO Player Council
    Deadlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Scotland - where the dwarf accents come from
    Posts
    3,511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    No, he spoke most carefully. Cleric/FvS are NOT getting another tree ADDED. Instead, they are getting an existing tree removed and then done over. Supposedly SOONER than Sorc get their NEW tree.

    This is great for the melee Clr/FvS. I don't begrudge them having a tree.

    I just wish they really had gone and ADDED a Warpriest tree, instead of simply replacing one tree with another. Thiss will in fact DECREASE options for any NON-MELEE Clr/FvS.
    Agree with this.

    Would have liked to see Protection get a bit of a rework to offer a purely defensive tree, with Warpriest added as a purely offensive tree.

    I won't be surprised if what you see is a mishmash of both that dilutes the overall diversity we could have had.

    Would also have been a great opportunity for Turbine to say - "You asked for a more offensive line to benefit battle-cleric types. We've listened and we're adding an entirely new tree to provide this. Keep giving us feedback - we can add more trees. Sorry if this reduces the amount of doom, but there ya go."

  16. #36
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sunnyvale, Cactus Area
    Posts
    2,875

    Default

    So Varg,

    If you add warpriest for clerics and then shovel it to FVS.... does that mean Divine Avenger is dead or just becomes priority "mostly dead" given FVS already have access to a melee tree? Also... where's Eladrin. The goober didn't even say goodbye to us. Or is he on design Batman's Future 2047XD8 Dog Duty with the new game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  17. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    [...] It's a commentary on the the issue that the EP has marginalized diversity in Sorc's by forcing them choose a Savant tree whereas before the EP, you could choose elements you wanted to specialize in without having to choose a Savant tree and the inherit drawbacks that come with them. Some people would much rather be fairly good at 3-4 elements rather than super powerful in 1.
    Curious, if you want to be good in 3-4 elements instead of just super powerful in 1, why not play wizards? More versatile that way.

    Don't tell me that you want sorcerer's super fast casting, 50% to 100% as much spell points and you also want wizard's versatility... like you want to have cake; and eat it too.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  18. #38
    Hero
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    SW United States
    Posts
    2,776

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    Curious, if you want to be good in 3-4 elements instead of just super powerful in 1, why not play wizards? More versatile that way.

    Don't tell me that you want sorcerer's super fast casting, 50% to 100% as much spell points and you also want wizard's versatility... like you want to have cake; and eat it too.
    Wizards to me and to many other people are more DC based casters. Necro and Enchant more specifically. I see Sorc's more of the Element casters. If I want my cake and wanted to eat it too, I would be asking for more Necro or Enchant DC's. I'm not. Just more options when it comes to elements. That's hardly the whole cake.

  19. #39
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Flying overhead
    Posts
    1,766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    Hmmm I thought I read somewhere that cleric was getting the next tree (warpriest). Does this mean 2 trees are coming at the same time? Or did I miss-remember something (again)?
    Warpriest is coming first. Warpriest is a revamp of the Protection tree and includes some existing abilities in that tree, while the new Sorcerer tree is entirely new. I'll admit this could be considered a merely semantic difference, but this is a good thing to clarify.

  20. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    BTW, I have logged in several times the past couple weeks to look for friends , and I see very few, and not a single one likes this enhancement tree system, many have quit , as I have. The servers are dead, and with this copycat simple tree system, even new players will get bored very quickly. The couple friends I did catch online also dislike the system and their builds are broken. They too are being forced to play something they don't want. these are people with characters that have 10 past lives. I'm disgusted at what you have done to the game and hope you bring back the "CUSTOM BUILD" option that made this game great. Funny how 'Custom " build used to be "recommended for experienced players only" . Now its gone, and so are the experienced players. I will not be recommending the game any longer. Look at how dead the game has become, how empty the groups and servers are, and how quickly boredom sets in with this simplification. Its plain to see. The death of the best RPG, MMO is at hand if its not fixed I suspect.
    All my characters are more powerful after the enhancement pass...

    According to DDO Oracle, there are more people on all the servers now, not less; except Ghallanda.
    As to what kind of people, DDO Oracle says multi-classed fighter/ranger/rogue, or barbarian/figthter... human. Now, I don't know if they have 5+ past lives or not...

    Sorcerer, IMHO, always is the OP class; even more so after the enhancement pass. In every group I have been in, they have produced the most damage... except when I was on a wizard and instant kills were working.

    May be I should have specified: Warforged Sorcerer... especially on EE content.
    Last edited by Tyrande; 09-10-2013 at 05:28 PM.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload