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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Wow, that's a lot of anger directed at someone who replied to your post.

    I think I'll just leave you to your ranting.

    Have a nice day.
    You have 1,400 + posts. Putting words in peoples mouths, getting offended, posting on topics you know nothing about, and acting like voicing a problem with my "previously" favorite game is pure ranting...... Please, can we let the Sorcerers express themselves here without the forum post patting? You have expressed yourself, and had a good idea (more general trees needed) or two. There is some knowledgeable feedback here in the thread, not just posting stat padding. How's about we call a truce? I'll teach you the facts in game sometime, find me on Orion. Dangerousda is the name, 5 lives as a sorc each time. I use 4+3 lesser reincarnate to become wizzy level 12, 2 times (spendy), only one life as Wizard (hated it, slow cast, low sp), 5 as sorc for the current build . (3 past life wizzy, 3 past life sorc, current sorc 7th life) I know my stuff better than you do. I know I do not find Savants enjoyable, and that is all the new system supports. Can you follow that? Wait!!! dont answer, please.

  2. #62
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    I still think you're underestimating the potential of the new system. Most characters (and this is just the pure ones) will draw from at least two different class trees and probably from a racial tree as well; that's something like 150+ AP to max on characters that only get 80 to spend, so even characters with identical tree choices could end up looking fairly different from one another, particularly as enhancements aren't the only level of customisation.

    Let's look at your specific case, which admittedly is one of the most restricted. While it's true that you can't get support for hurling around necromancy effects, while instant nuking with Chain Lightning and dealing damage-over-time with Black Dragon Bolt...you can get support for hurling around necromancy effects, while instant nuking with Delayed Blast Fireball and dealing damage-over-time with Black Dragon Bolt. Or you could nuke with Chain Lightning and DoT with Niac's Biting Cold. Or nuke with Horrid Wilting and DoT with Black Dragon Bolt. And you can do it better than you ever could before, because now you can get savant-style bonuses to two different elements instead of just the one, and get universal spell power from both trees at the same time. They just can't be an opposed pair - that still leaves two elements open for every primary selection. Want to take some force as well? You can get +10 force spell power from the fifth tier of any savant tree, and add it to your accumulated USP. That means you can be strong in two elements, and have some power behind force and negative spells as well. That's four different types of damage, two with caster level boosts - is that really less of a spread than what you had before the pass, where you had no access to any SLAs, no enhancement-based caster level bonuses to anything, and no access to class-based negative spell power at all?

    As for your sorcerer necromancy interest, you can do better now there than you could before there, as well. If you were to select a drow character, you can now buy Charisma enhancements from the racial tree instead of being limited to Dexterity only. This means you can achieve higher necromancy DCs in the new system than you'd have had under the old one (and be more different from other drow who have other options). It's even better for Enchantment because you can get an additional +1 to your DCs from Enchantment lore 3/3, and you can choose to learn the Darkfire SLA if you want a non-elemental blast. Alternatively, you can play as a regular elf, forgo the additional Charisma, and get +3 Spell Penetration and 100 SP. Add that plus three to the plus two you can take from having two different savant trees and you've got a total of +5, which (IIRC...) is higher than what you could get under the old system. DCs or Spell PEnetration? That's a viable choice for distinguishing two very similar characters right there. Don't want to be an elf? Fine, go human and take the universal spellpower boost with Charisma action surge and traditionalist spellcaster - that's +10 to universal spellpower at all times, another +20 when you use your action boost, and +1-2 to the DCs of all your spells you cast during any action boost. That's pretty good for the purposes of a generalist, making use of options that are brand-new to the revised system.

    I get that you're stuck with one of the most restrictive classes and that the current options might not be attractive to you, but you can still build towards a play style like the one you're describing, and receive benefits to it that simply weren't open to you previously.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post

    Sorcs do need a non-elemental tree. I'd love for all casters to have more flexibility to move around (like you have some trees on BOTH cleric and FVS ... why not similar on wizard/sorc/druid ... sorc PMs, druid savants, sorc archmages, wizard savants)
    Bingo! Someone actually gets it.

    While a majority of people are running around screaming like they just put on aftershave for the first time that Sorc's are still OP and why should we give them anything. Varg said they wanted diversity and that it was successful to them from that standpoint. Well, coming from a player standpoint, and my bar of success is probably higher than Turbine's ("We got it out on time, score! And it works, for - the - most part!") diversity is there for melee's. A lot of new synergy between melee classes. And while there are some synergies between casters (sorc/fvs/wiz MM builds) they lag far behind melee's. So in that viewpoint, to me, it's 50% successful - 10% for the bugs = 40% successful in my eyes.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddo.rsmo.pt View Post
    What the OP is probably saying is that Sorcerer needs to have a tree with Force spellpower and critical increase, so that I can continue to rule Epic Elite content with Shiradi Sorcerer.

    If so, I totally agree.

    Carry on.
    Shiradi's don't do their primary damage from their force, it's from the extra random damage generated by the ED.

    I find that the new enhancement pass improved my damage output, CC capabilities and variation of my EE Shiradi sorc. I went electricity and cold savants - using the electricity SLAs plus MM plus sonic blast. Sonic blast stuns, electric loop stuns, Shiradi nerve venom paralyzes, using those costs 4-6 mana, allowing you to stop entire rooms of creatures, as long as you're willing to dance around to constantly re-aim at the group (total fun, moving around like that - can't stand the Turbine desire to have everyone stand still), using the lightning bolt SLA for single target high damage, and whatever other high damage spells you like to use.

    Maximize+empower the SLAs, turn both off for MM and Sonic Blast, turn them on for your other high level damage spells = fantastic CC + great dps output.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    Most of you are missing the point - op feels strangled by the new system because there are no general "sorcerer" enhancements anymore, with savant being a side option. Now savant is the only option possible. This definitely is a reduction in customization for Sorcerers.
    That's undeniable, though Clatterfist above made some great suggestions for the style of gameplay the OP prefers. Otherwise, he'd have to be a wiz with quicken to reach the kind of versatility he had before.

    Most classes fare better but the Sorcerer trees are a prime example of the biggest flaw in this system IMO - no general class trees. That seemed to be the main thing everyone agreed on back when they were first asking for feedback about this system last year but that's not the direction they went.. we have general enhancements and capstones tied to prestige lines which can screw over many generalist builds.
    I agree with you on this. It seems a bit lazy not having core class trees and PRE's separate.

    Deadlock mentioned adding Acolyte of the Skin could help overcome this but I hope they don't go the route of dumping all the general-ish enhancement into one tree since it could have many cool potential abilities that there might not be room for otherwise. Wizard has this problem atm with Archmage being sort of the "generalist" tree where they really should have added more unique abilities instead. Sorcerers really need 2 more trees to feel complete and fit all the options I think OP is looking for.

    For Sorcerer specifically a couple ways to fix the customization problem:

    1. Condense Savant down to 1 tree - it's basically just 1 tree anyway that's been copy/pasted a few times. Then add 2 additional completely unique trees to flesh out the Sorc options. Acolyte is already anticipated but there are tons of other potentials as well.
    It needs to be at least 2 trees. Like a Fire/Ice and Air/Water - taking one locks out the other. If you reduce it to one tree, it would be like what we had before, which was locking out all three PRE's. The new system is more flexible if you're building a savant - you get two savant trees now.

    2. Allow us to invest in all trees rather than locking us out of the opposing element. Maybe I want to spend points evenly in all 4 trees so that the bonuses & penalties even out - then I may have a more general elementalist. Add the 2 extra trees anyway since we need more flavor than just variants on Savant.
    Yeah, that would produce unlimited flexibility and be a quick fix to not having a separate tree. I was going to try taking the devil's advocate here, but I can't fault your logic. No reason a Fire savant wouldn't be also interested in taking Cold and trying to make up for the losses in each tree.

    No matter what you do with Savant we really need 2 more unique trees for the Sorcerer to feel fleshed out and have a good variety of pure class build options. Yeah there are multi-class options but really every class should have 3 completely uniquely different prestige trees to feel complete. There are clear differences in customization options between classes that have fully fleshed out trees vs those that don't.

    Sidenote suggestion: In the far off future maybe Sorcerers should be asked to choose a 'feat' at lvl 1 representing their lineage similar to divine casters selecting a deity. The ancestral lineage could limit and/or open up new enhancement options depending on your background. This could help extend customization options also.
    That would be very interesting!

  6. #66
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    7th life sorc teaching the uber completionist facts of the game, this should be good.

    My only question at this time for the op is:
    Did you at any time participate in the beta or the lamannia forums during the enhancement pass discussions?

    You have two options in this game, be proactive and use the proper means of feedback, or be reactive and rant on the forums afterwards/leave the game. While you won't always get what you want if you didn't even put your voice in when they were listening whose fault is that?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    My biggest issue with the trees is that there is no class tree. I don't like to have to take enhancements through trees just to get what should be class specific. Good examples are LOH in Sacred Defender when I want to focus on KOTC and extend rage in Occult Slayer when I want to focus on Frenzied Berserker. I like how you can pick and choose enhancements through multiple prestiges, but this is one reason why some people say having to take forced options. There should be a class tree like there is a racial tree.
    precisely! I don't understand why I have to take tumble ( I mean you ever see a sorc using tumble smartly ?) in order to get jump or balance, and why I can only do it 3 times max. You call that more diversified? Cmon, we are all grown ups here. Anyone who loves the game can clearly see that now everything is crammed into convenient little pills you have to swallow weather you want parts of it or not. and by lv 10 my race tree is full, because I dont' want anything in the savant trees. That is diverse? I call your bluff, I don't believe experienced players find the tree system at all more diverse, because its plainly NOT. We are not stupid.

    Example:
    1)Sorc wants to be good with lightning and acid,, OOPS,, sorry,, ddo doesn't allow that. conflicting savant tree. (diversity ?)
    2) sorc wants to be good fire and ice, darn,, sorry, impossible,, cannot get any bonus on fire without penalties to ice, and vice vs. conflicting savant.
    3) sorc wants to put as much ap into jump as possible, oh,, damn,, sorry only 3 clicks allowed, but use rest of the tree you dont want, since your locked out of another tree anyhow.
    4) sorc want efficiency "highten" for fod, WoB, and cod,, oh,, sorry,, completely forgot to add that metamagic to the sorc tree entirely. (versitility?)
    5) Sorc wants his tuffness enhancements,, oh,, crud,, they are not here,, completely removed,, seems the feat I took at character lv 1 was a complete waste (there are no toughness enhancements available , which were an integral part of my build and play style)
    6) my racial tree is full at lv 8, and I still cannot get a single arcane elemental boost unless I become a savant, which locks out one or more elements as viable weapons , and the entire associated tree.

    7) My sorc wants UMD for healing items, oh ****,, there is no longer such a thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111


    And this was just at a glance, I have instantly spotted dozens of similar items on my FVS, Wizzy, Bard, and Pally.
    What has happened is they made it real easy to get some powerful builds even if you don't have a clue what your doing , But if you know what you want, and come here to create the perfect tweek , for your gaming enjoyment, sorry, your out of luck, because there is NO customization, and there are so few combinations that there are dozens like you already on server. Tree systems always end up being unlocked, like on Rift for example. You can spontaneously switch from one set of trees to another. Seems real cool at first, until you realize,, we are all the same, pretty soon people are telling you how to spec your enhancements tree for a certain adventure. This has all been done before, DDO is just late to the table. Within a few weeks you will have all your options memorized and realize you have NO choice. and a few weeks after that your newly rolled tune will show the same pattern. So much has been removed from your options. You cannot be a pure barbarian with sneaking ability any longer. You cannot be a pure fighter with UMD. How can you people not see how limiting this system is now, you have no choice but one or two they have outlined now. You used to be able to do what ever you wanted. Create a complete fail Intel. Barbarian, with UMD, and trap skills that still has cap stone, because he's pure barb. Point is,, you have no options, everyone is exactly the same, especially the pure breeds.

    Give it some thought. How is it that your racial tree and first selected class tree are mostly used up by lv 10? And you still cannot deviate from the skills every single player of that class has. This system is so severely flawed and needs much more thought put into customization of skills. Never force people into a mold,, they don't like it, they quickly get bored. I find my Rift character more fun now than my DDO tunes because I can use all the trees at the same time. Is that where this is going? Because that game is dead to.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    Did someone say anything about a roll back? It was not me, but maybe voiced in your head. Years ago I selected "custom Build" when I created my first life sorc, then Savants were introduced, everyone tried them, I did not like them and quickly respeced to my custom full range sorc. Now The game forces every sorc to be a savant. Is this not clearly sort of idiotic? What was once a prestige you had to learn to do is now mandatory for the class. And the same goes for all the classes in our guild. Not a single character is what my kids want. That is the point. An OPTION (to say again for those with voices in their heads) to use the old style "Custom " build cannot be so hard to create, since it existed before.
    I understand you all think making it easier to understand the feats and enhancements should attract a broader range of players. But I don't believe that is why DDO had so many long term players and people investing in the game. The attraction is the learning curve in custom builds. Going from fubar first life to exceptional 4th life custom was a great learning adventure you shared with your friends. That is dead now. Clumping skills into a jumble, stacking them together, only means I'm being forced to take things i don't want to get one I do. Like the Jump skill, now its "tumble, jump, and balance", and I can only take it 3 times. Every single tiny detail that made my character special, and specific to my play style is gone now. How can this even be considered a step forward? The game lost a good paying customer in me and my 2 daughters. We don't like being forced to play your way. So, in response to your "Roll Back" comments, yes that would be best in my opinion, but not realistic. Now the game needs a constant stream of "custom" non prestige class enhancement trees. It needs the customization it once had. And don't tell me the numbers have gone up, and the new system is loved , a real game improvement, because that is a lie. I have met no one who likes it, not a single person. But several that think "Bla" , that is a direct quote.

    And if your not a 4th or 5th life TR your very new, you should not know how to make a prestige yet, that was the beauty of it. You see, now any idiot can make a prestige character, its DnD for dummies, but your obviously youthful, because you should be able to see how quickly you will use up the trees and become bored. There is nothing to learn, no way to be different, unique. Your just another prestige exactly like your buddy who will quit playing in a few months out of boredom. I've been a loyal customer for over 4 years, until now. And many others with over 10 past lives are gone now too. Why you think that is? Bring Custom Back, don't force prestige. Allow people to be creative, for better or worse, its their money.
    While you are very negative to everyone who talks to you have fun with that. i think you need to work with your people skills. just because someone takes 5 lives to learn about prestiges has nothing to do with them being new or an idiot. Not everyone will learn this game in a drop of a dime. You know anyone could hit 20 then tr right? to tr means nothing now. im glad mr 7 lives there is so informative and thinks he knows everything. thinks the game is dead and no one likes the pass. I disagree with that. a lot of people in my channel as well friends/guild love it once they started exploring.

    as for the savants wow look you can do 2 as compared to the old one of one. wow yeah that is sooooo tough. right? last time i checked since we lot a lot of the elemental manipulation % i noticed i got a boost to all of my spells not just a few i spec in. As for a sorc i dont really have more then 2 elements. i like mixing cold with acid. that is just one combo alone. Remember Savants is only one prestige.

    So yeah instead of throwing out crazy rude thoughts trying being constructive not like this is **** and needs to be tossed. i like my sorc too bad you dont like yours. btw i have 3 wizard lives 1 fvs 1 sorc. so i know my sorc who used to be a wizard.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    BTW, I have logged in several times the past couple weeks to look for friends , and I see very few, and not a single one likes this enhancement tree system, many have quit , as I have. The servers are dead, and with this copycat simple tree system, even new players will get bored very quickly. The couple friends I did catch online also dislike the system and their builds are broken. They too are being forced to play something they don't want. these are people with characters that have 10 past lives. I'm disgusted at what you have done to the game and hope you bring back the "CUSTOM BUILD" option that made this game great. Funny how 'Custom " build used to be "recommended for experienced players only" . Now its gone, and so are the experienced players. I will not be recommending the game any longer. Look at how dead the game has become, how empty the groups and servers are, and how quickly boredom sets in with this simplification. Its plain to see. The death of the best RPG, MMO is at hand if its not fixed I suspect.
    Bye.

    Enjoy whatever Non-Dungeons and Dragons MMO you find with a tree system.

    The Enhancement Pass, once played, is far better and much more fun.

    And you rant is many weeks behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    My concern is that pure builds are at a disadvantage because most of the classes only have two enhancement trees. Barbarians, rangers, rogues and clerics and monks are very versatile, but that's only because I have 3 trees to choose from. It should also be noted that multiclassing gives one the ability to access the trees of up to 3 different classes. So under the current system it's more advantageous to multi-class than it used to be. Thus, pure characters are at a disadvantage in terms of flexibility and versatility.

    In other words, I feel that we need more class trees.
    Yes!! The smart people are coming out of the wood work. The first thing i noticed is that being a pure class is now gimping you. That is just wrong. It goes against anything DnD ever stood for. A pure class should be the most effective on the field bar non. And should still have access to unique primary and secondary skills such as jump, balance, intimidate, mercantile , sneak,, etc, etc. NO MATTER THE CLASS! That is what made DnD great decades ago. Thousands of the same class could be together and not a one have the same skills. That is what has been taken from us.

    Maybe the first tree that should be introduced is the skill tree, separate from all others and for every single class. At least that way , you never really know who might have diplomacy, or bluff in a group,, as it should be.

  11. #71
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    [QUOTE=Coyopa;5095917

    At this point, I have:

    - a 23rd level first life bard
    - a 24th level second life monk
    - a 16th level second life cleric
    - a 20th level first life barbarian
    - a 25th level second life ranger
    - a 25th level first life druid
    - a 16th level third life rogue
    - a 16th level second life ranger/monk/rogue (first life was fighter/monk/rogue)
    - a 22nd level first life wizard
    - a 16th level first life fighter
    - a 14th level first life rogue/monk/fighter
    - a 20th level first life artificer

    TR'ing does not make you a good player. Rather, the breadth of knowledge of classes, quests, monsters, and tactics does. I'd say I am doing pretty well on that.[/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    You could've had a completionist and won! What a waste of time...




    Dream on,, Tr's take much longer to level,, past your second life it takes the xp of 3 lv 20+ to lv a single 3rd life TR,, you might want to check your math man. All your xp combined is but half of what I have on a single character. Not to mention how you fit in the past life feats you choose to use, because you only get 5, each past life feat you choose takes a slot away from your current class. So you actually have no idea how it would impact your build. I have +6 with magic wands , staves and scrolls dc's, +4 on all evocation DC's spell cast, +6 spell penetration, +1 to ALL spell schools cast,, etc,, just from past life feats. You don't have a clue what its like until you make one.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    Yes!! The smart people are coming out of the wood work. The first thing i noticed is that being a pure class is now gimping you. That is just wrong. It goes against anything DnD ever stood for. A pure class should be the most effective on the field bar non. And should still have access to unique primary and secondary skills such as jump, balance, intimidate, mercantile , sneak,, etc, etc. NO MATTER THE CLASS! That is what made DnD great decades ago. Thousands of the same class could be together and not a one have the same skills. That is what has been taken from us.

    Maybe the first tree that should be introduced is the skill tree, separate from all others and for every single class. At least that way , you never really know who might have diplomacy, or bluff in a group,, as it should be.
    No one is denying that sorcs need another tree - even the developer chimed in to say that sorcs will be the first to have a new tree. As for the skill boost, they seem cheaper and better. In air savant, you get +2/+4/+6 to your Tumble, Jump and Balance skills for the price of one, for ex. All the savants get multiple skill increases, which means that, as a sorc, you have access to two sets of skill bonuses. That's bonuses to 4-6 skills for the price of 2. Sure, you lose a bit of flexibility, but you gain broadly.

    Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would take any skill bonus, except for UMD. Do you really, really need jump to be +3 when you could just use the jump spell?

    And your customization of skills is provided at the beginning, when you make your character and each level thereafter - just as customizable as it was before.

    I can see your point that sorcs need another tree, and understand that you no longer have the build you want b/c all sorcs are forced to be savants of some flavor. Well at least a new tree is coming. Until then, if you want to play, and no one is forcing you, Clatterfist gave excellent ideas above. Or you could respec to a wiz and take quicken - but I'm with you on not liking playing them. I skipped my wizzie life by using the +20 LR stone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyfiel View Post
    7th life sorc teaching the uber completionist facts of the game, this should be good.

    My only question at this time for the op is:
    Did you at any time participate in the beta or the lamannia forums during the enhancement pass discussions?

    You have two options in this game, be proactive and use the proper means of feedback, or be reactive and rant on the forums afterwards/leave the game. While you won't always get what you want if you didn't even put your voice in when they were listening whose fault is that?
    hehe, I never did see why anyone would do completionist, you can't even take most the past life feats, and what you can only is tier 1, which is all but meaningless, and do very little to bolster the tune, even the 3 pts to all stats is what,, a massive +1 to ability damage or DC's?,, bfd? Put that up against my +6 spell pen, and +6 wand , staff, and scroll DC's, +4 evocation,,Completionist is a waste of time IMO
    and your right I am blunt in RL too,, and I'm scary to some people, but I have great passion for the Game since the age of 12 (46 now), with my first basic D&D set. I had hoped DDO would continue the tradition. I'm doing what I can, the only way I know how. You can see only the tone if you choose, but then you miss the message. Die hard gamers don't post on the forums 2.300 times like you. In fact, a lot never post because they don't think it will change anything with all the forums lifers wining in the devs ears all day. And they are probably right. forum people are forum people, gamers are a different breed. Try to hear the content , not the tone. There is no denying facts in RL, and RL people are quitting, and some big spenders too. Is that good for the game? Ignorance and over sensitivity to tone are not helping either. But it got you another post counter,, oh mighty founder. Where I come from , people love conflict and sharp words,, they find it entertaining to read, sparks interest . No offense personally, I assure you.

    Hypothesis: Ideas mentioned so far this thread.

    1)separate Class skill tree (general, non prestige) to round diversity out.
    2)separate skill tree for all class's ( to make attributes unique to the individual and deviate from the constricting mold of some trees)
    3) Quotes that admitted the sorc tree is in need of some love (which gives me hope, thanx to those who posted that,, I had missed it)
    4)Others pointed out similar redundant and unwanted skill groupings in other class's as well (moral support, I am not alone)
    5) Plainly , pure class characters are at a disadvantage in this restricting new tree system (more support)
    6)And a whole lot of forum crawlers easily offended and getting emo about my tone

    See , something was gained from where I'm sitting anyhow, I feel better, thanx for asking.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    Dream on,, Tr's take much longer to level,, past your second life it takes the xp of 3 lv 20+ to lv a single 3rd life TR,, you might want to check your math man. All your xp combined is but half of what I have on a single character. Not to mention how you fit in the past life feats you choose to use, because you only get 5, each past life feat you choose takes a slot away from your current class. So you actually have no idea how it would impact your build. I have +6 with magic wands , staves and scrolls dc's, +4 on all evocation DC's spell cast, +6 spell penetration, +1 to ALL spell schools cast,, etc,, just from past life feats. You don't have a clue what its like until you make one.
    The rage from you is amazing. Are you sure you aren't a barbarian?

    TR's are fine to level. You just need more practice. 4.4m xp? Easy. I showed my mate this thread, he had a laugh at you
    Oh, right. He's a triple completionist, has played for over 5 years and solo's EE for fun - also a bad player like me.
    +6 to wands? Why use wands? Honstly..
    +4 to evok? Cool. I have bracers that do that.
    Past life feats? My wizard is on his 8th life (and he's not my main), so.. Yeah, TRing is fine. Just do it faster.

    It took you 5 lives to learn what a prestige is.

    I'm sorry, you're a terrible player based off everything you've said and you rage like a little kid - even worse than I do.
    Don't like an update? Bye bye, find a new game.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by singular View Post
    no one is denying that sorcs need another tree - even the developer chimed in to say that sorcs will be the first to have a new tree. As for the skill boost, they seem cheaper and better. In air savant, you get +2/+4/+6 to your tumble, jump and balance skills for the price of one, for ex. All the savants get multiple skill increases, which means that, as a sorc, you have access to two sets of skill bonuses. That's bonuses to 4-6 skills for the price of 2. Sure, you lose a bit of flexibility, but you gain broadly.

    Personally, i can't imagine why anyone would take any skill bonus, except for umd. Do you really, really need jump to be +3 when you could just use the jump spell?

    And your customization of skills is provided at the beginning, when you make your character and each level thereafter - just as customizable as it was before.

    I can see your point that sorcs need another tree, and understand that you no longer have the build you want b/c all sorcs are forced to be savants of some flavor. Well at least a new tree is coming. Until then, if you want to play, and no one is forcing you, clatterfist gave excellent ideas above. Or you could respec to a wiz and take quicken - but i'm with you on not liking playing them. I skipped my wizzie life by using the +20 lr stone.
    edit; Oh holy moly,, you mean the jump , balance , tumble is in addition to the skills you get during leveling,, duh,, oh im such a boob,, ok,, that is a huge fix right there,(since it is unchanged), I have not played since the change, have not leveled in some 5 months. But I noticed I cannot jump like I could,, and wolves knock me over all the time,, and Im nearly blind to stealth mobs now, wonder what changed? Thanx for this post,, Ill log in and give it another chance.
    Last edited by Daangerousda; 09-11-2013 at 12:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    The rage from you is amazing. Are you sure you aren't a barbarian?

    TR's are fine to level. You just need more practice. 4.4m xp? Easy. I showed my mate this thread, he had a laugh at you
    Oh, right. He's a triple completionist, has played for over 5 years and solo's EE for fun - also a bad player like me.
    +6 to wands? Why use wands? Honstly..
    +4 to evok? Cool. I have bracers that do that.
    Past life feats? My wizard is on his 8th life (and he's not my main), so.. Yeah, TRing is fine. Just do it faster.

    It took you 5 lives to learn what a prestige is.

    I'm sorry, you're a terrible player based off everything you've said and you rage like a little kid - even worse than I do.
    Don't like an update? Bye bye, find a new game.
    Would you please stop encouraging people to leave the game?
    There is no scenario where that is helpful.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    The rage from you is amazing. Are you sure you aren't a barbarian?

    TR's are fine to level. You just need more practice. 4.4m xp? Easy. I showed my mate this thread, he had a laugh at you
    Oh, right. He's a triple completionist, has played for over 5 years and solo's EE for fun - also a bad player like me.
    +6 to wands? Why use wands? Honstly..
    +4 to evok? Cool. I have bracers that do that.
    Past life feats? My wizard is on his 8th life (and he's not my main), so.. Yeah, TRing is fine. Just do it faster.

    It took you 5 lives to learn what a prestige is.

    I'm sorry, you're a terrible player based off everything you've said and you rage like a little kid - even worse than I do.
    Don't like an update? Bye bye, find a new game.
    lOL,, you goober,, everyone has bracers that do that,, it stacks with the feat smart guy, your still 4 less on Evo than me,, completionist or not ;P

    Wand of blasting, epic Wand of winters Wrath, epic Brimstone Verge, Master Transmuters staff, Alarphon's Staff,, all epic quality and very powerful. Any of this ringin any bells? or are you truly noob? The question is ,, what caster wouldn't use them ,,

    dont get your panties in an uproar, I'm here to complain about the game changes , not your or my gaming prowess, sorry for the drifting topic. I've been having a full life the past few years, not so much time for DDO, and FYI,, Savants didn't exist until my 3rd life, they arrived in a patch like this skill tree did, but that patch did not remove my ability choices like this one. Sorry to have effected you so dramatically, it is not my intention. PS completionist is a waste of time :P
    Last edited by Daangerousda; 09-11-2013 at 12:44 AM.

  18. #78
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    The rage from you is amazing. Are you sure you aren't a barbarian?

    TR's are fine to level. You just need more practice. 4.4m xp? Easy. I showed my mate this thread, he had a laugh at you
    Oh, right. He's a triple completionist, has played for over 5 years and solo's EE for fun - also a bad player like me.
    +6 to wands? Why use wands? Honstly..
    +4 to evok? Cool. I have bracers that do that.
    Past life feats? My wizard is on his 8th life (and he's not my main), so.. Yeah, TRing is fine. Just do it faster.

    It took you 5 lives to learn what a prestige is.

    I'm sorry, you're a terrible player based off everything you've said and you rage like a little kid - even worse than I do.
    Don't like an update? Bye bye, find a new game.
    I agree with a lot of what you said. He is raging at people that don't agree with him. Telling them they suck because they haven't done 7 past lifes on a sorc.

    1. Taking 5 of those lives to learn there even was a prestige shows me your knowledge already.
    2. All you know is Sorc so you may be somewhat knowledgeable about sorcs, but the game in whole you know very little.
    3. The pass upgraded and made all my characters better even my sorc who I like being a savant and having a secondary line that am very powerful in.
    4. Calm down and read what others say. All agree and me to that another line is needed forcing savant on someone that don't want it is'nt the best idea turbine has had. Dev did post they are first in line for new one soon.
    5. Some just don't play one class and like to learn more of the game than just that one class. Doesn't make them noobs. Actually makes them extremely more knowledgeable of classes and game mechanics and what others bring to table with characters and builds.
    6. Stop the tunnel vision there is more to the game than sorcs and this pass was awsome for it, maybe not for your sorc, but overall it was a great upgrade to this game and what can do with characters now. So much versatility.

    I can't wait for you to rage at some more posts including mine. Time to get some popcorn for this one is good and very enjoyable.
    Proud Officer of The Madborn

  19. #79
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    lOL,, you goober,, everyone has bracers that do that,, it stacks with the feat smart guy, your still 4 less on Evo than me,, completionist or not ;P

    dont get your panties in an uproar, I'm here to complain about the game changes , not your or my gaming prowess, sorry for the drifting topic. I've been having a full life the past few years, not so much time for DDO, and FYI,, Savants didn't exist until my 3rd life, they arrived in a patch like this skill tree did, but that patch did not remove my ability choices like this one. Sorry to have effected you so dramatically, it is not my intention. PS completionist is a waste of time :P
    I have 4 less, completionist or not? That statement is wrong by default.
    If I'm a completionist, I'm ahead - because I bother getting each PL*3, meaning I have completionist - +1 DC over you. If I'm not a completionist, it's a draw, sadly enough.
    How do you know I'm not a drow evoker? Suddenly I have more.

    Completionist isn't a waste of time if you play harder content... +1 DC matters. Frankly, nothing is a waste of time, because it's a game. It doesn't have the aim of sitting at level 28. It has the aim of amusing you, however that may be.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    edit; Oh holy moly,, you mean the jump , balance , tumble is in addition to the skills you get during leveling,, duh,, oh im such a boob,, ok,, that is a huge fix right there,(since it is unchanged), I have not played since the change, have not leveled in some 5 months. But I noticed I cannot jump like I could,, and wolves knock me over all the time,, and Im nearly blind to stealth mobs now, wonder what changed? Thanx for this post,, Ill log in and give it another chance.
    Yeah. You still get your regular skill choices during character design, and then you can increase whatever skills you want during the leveling process, just like it has always been.

    There are three important extras to note:

    1. Spellcraft is now a must have for casters, as it directly affects your power (one for one, I think). That means that sorcs have to balance Con versus Int, survivability versus damage output. Some see this as a further nerf to sorcs, but I see it as an interesting choice to make. I personally went 18 Cha, 16 Con, 16 Int.

    2. Perform is used as Spellcraft above for sonic boost. I like this change, too, since I rely upon sonic spells a lot and they've always been weak in damage output. Plus it's fun to have a place to spend all my skill points, thanks to the higher Int I was forced to take.

    3. Yeah, the Savant trees each grant a package deal in terms of improving skills. Each one grants a small bonus of some sort if you take level 3 in it. See here the wiki for details:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Water_Savant_enhancements

    At the top of the page, you can change from water to air to fire, etc. They're all tier 1 abilities.

    -----------

    I don't know why you're getting knocked down more. Yeah, I've been blind to mobs more, lately, too, come to think about it. I used to see their outlines but now I don't see anything - there have been changes made to stealth. I wonder if that's what's affecting us?

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