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  1. #101
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    They have no respect for heroic levels? Geez, we should do something about it!

    ...Aside from the fact that I have no respect for heroic levels either. All I learn is how stupid the xp changes where, now that I need to farm more. Hate to tell you, heroic is a joke and I don't blame them for using ED abilities. Main reason why I don't? I don't know how.

    Soloing elite is a joke anyway. A good VON III party? Why VON III? At least I can pretend fleshmaker is difficult.

    In short, heroic is a joke, nobody cares about it, many players solo 1-20 to avoid PUG drama (because it's easy) and... VON III is easy by heroic standards!
    to me if i see someone do this i think they're just a fail that they resort to a crutch that isnt needed for heroic. im sorry if you need to go about and go this route then you're sad. i see a lot of players jump on the bandwagon and follow when they see something their not suppose to do. its just weak.

    its easy to get exp as a third life+ tr. its simple enough you dont need these extra abilities. if people would just play the game as it was intended instead of trying to find shortcuts not intended.

  2. #102
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Being on wiki doesnt mean its proof, wiki is edited by players, devs or turbine have nothing with it.
    I hear you on that, but am wondering if the fact its no longer on the wiki, the players who do edit it acknowledge that it is an exploit - or maybe have been asked to remove it.

    *shrugs* all conjecture I know but eh ... that's what we're left with.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    But that is exactly what DDO is about Chai.
    It is only about that if you choose to make it about that. It certainly isn't for me. I grind rarely and then only for short durations. I mostly do what I think will be fun.

    It's a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    DDO is about grinding out past lives and then grinding out gear for your final build. The game is about repeating quests over and over and over again until you get what you want.
    What's the point of that? You get all your PLs and gear and.. then what? What are you going to do then? Nothing... you'll be bored and probably quit. All because you rushed through and didn't enjoy the content because you were trying to get "somewhere" that turned out to be "nowhere".

    The whole thing has always struck me as being like spending your entire life doing things you hate so you can get into a good nursing home when you're 80.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    And I assure you, some of the people whining in this thread certainly do not have any ED abilities and are jealous pure and simple. There really doesn't have to be more of a reason than that. People are jealous of what they do not or can not have.
    I think it's convenient for people who don't want to examine their actions and choices to hand-wave the issue away by saying that others are "jealous". Personally, I have 19 fate points right now, enough to unlock the maximum possible fate slots.

    I use those slots when I get to level 20.

  4. #104
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyjibo_lol View Post
    Shrinking the number of players does not concern me, I have 9 months left on my subscription and it won't be renewed if such widespread cheating is allowed. It has been going for some time, but now it is endemic.
    Turbine has already alienated the hardcore raiders among many others. There is no need to alienate any more by fixing something that is trivial.

    For all of you that are standing on principle, why don’t you quit playing the game and go down the local mission and show them how to live? You people can keep pointing the moral stick at everyone but I am sure you do not live the life of a pope either.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    I don't understand your point. Enhancements are used both for heroic and epic levels and are not exclusive to heroic levels. Epic destinies are exclusive to epic levels. While I don't know the specific issue you are referring to, it's not directly nonsensical.

    I do agree that a poor precedent is given by leaving the exploit in for a year and not fixing it.
    Arcane archer's last 2 core abilities (if you are not a pure ranger) in the new enhancement system only available at lvl 25. So you can't spend your AP on them on heroic level. Usually you are spending your AP at heroic levels, right? Now, sometimes, you have to wait and spend them, when you are at epic levels. It's WAI. So, for an exchange, maybe you can use some of your epic stuff on heroic levels. I know, it's stupid. But it's as stupid as the need to get to lvl 25 to spend heroic AP...

  6. #106
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    If they fix it, I want them to fix all bugs, not just the ones that benefit players.
    Do you think its fair to us that they dont want to fix bugs for years, but can fix bugs like this?
    The existence of other bugs is a bad argument not to fix an exploit.

    And yea, I think it's fair. Exploits take the fun and challenge out of the game very quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  7. #107
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    The existence of other bugs is a bad argument not to fix an exploit.

    And yea, I think it's fair. Exploits take the fun and challenge out of the game very quickly.
    It isnt an argument not to fix it, I want them to fix it both, not fix one and ignore other.
    YOu think it is fair, lol.
    I can bet with everything that more people have left due to bugs like ladder, double login etc, than because of exploits of bugs.

  8. #108
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    I think we need Vladimir Putin to come in and tell the cheaters to stop cheating. it'd work.

  9. #109
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I dont have to limit my contact because im not the one on the wrong here. The exploiters have to limit their actions, because they are in the wrong. Its not a personal discussion regarding whether I like it or not, its a discussion of playing the game as intended, which the exploiters certainly are not.

    Trying to argue it doesnt affect anyone else and then recommending people limit their contact if they dont like it is a direct contradiction in terms. If people need to limit their own activity in order to have fun it certainly does affect them.
    You and I have discussed this issue into a circle before Chai. Until DDO states this is an exploit it is not. There is no "shady" mechanics involved. From all appearances it could be a game feature. This is another part of the issue. There is no indication that WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT.

    But thats by the by....my point remains that if you are one of those people who just dispises seeing it then perhaps you should take steps to avoid it. I dont take your word on what is allowed and or not allowed in this game any more than you should take mine. When there is no guidance then there is no right or wrong, you do what you like and I would expect others to do the same.

  10. #110
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    You and I have discussed this issue into a circle before Chai. Until DDO states this is an exploit it is not. There is no "shady" mechanics involved. From all appearances it could be a game feature. This is another part of the issue. There is no indication that WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT.
    Horse-hockey.

    If it smells like cheese it's cheese. This is clearly not WAI to any intelligent person, please stop trying to rationalize it and just embrace the dark-side.

  11. #111
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Mobs are exploiting too.
    So why cant we?
    Really?

    You need to try harder to justify cheating in a video game. But whatever allows you to sleep at night, justify away. Just don't cry when your caught.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Of course it's exploiting/cheating.

    It's bad enough to cheat, but there's a special place in hell for people who aren't even honest enough to admit when they're cheating right in front of you. Unless they don't know because they're ********. Then maybe they get a pass.
    Its not cheating because you say it is. If a dev popped in the thread and said its not WAI please don't do it they are working on a fix I'd stop, and I'd agree with you, its cheating. Otherwise what do people have to deny? Its the same as using greensteel at min level on tr lives. You wouldn't have it at level on your first life, but after that you do, are you going to not use it because you didn't have it til level 20 on your first life?

    I find it highly offensive you question people's integrity and accuse people of going to hell based on this, especially when there aren't even people in the thread denying they do it. If I thought it was cheating and wanted to do it but didn't want to get caught I'd only be twisting passive buffs and cocoon for self use only. I wouldn't be twisting party buffs and saying I do so on the forums if I had anything to hide.

  13. #113
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    But that is exactly what DDO is about Chai. It certainly is not about the new content that gets rolled out every few months. DDO is about grinding out past lives and then grinding out gear for your final build. The game is about repeating quests over and over and over again until you get what you want.
    Your terms might be grinding past lives, but thats not why everyone is playing. No one is jealous of exploiters cheating by using abilities scaled for post level 20 play in pre level 20 content. Saying so is a straw man argument. Its becomming mildly entertaining how people justify cheating. I wish Turbine had more of a backbone when it comes to exploiters, because when they used to, we got to see full well how this justification fails. The fact that they are all fight club and dont talk about it is the only reason why we are here having this conversation where people try to say that its WAI until Turbine, who they know will say nothing, says otherwise. How convenient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    And I assure you, some of the people whining in this thread certainly do not have any ED abilities and are jealous pure and simple. There really doesn't have to be more of a reason than that. People are jealous of what they do not or can not have.
    Jealous? LOL. If I can get through heroic content in the same amount of time but I dont have to exploit, perhaps its the cheaters who are jealous of me, the guy who doesnt have to cheat, and thats why they exploit, to keep up with my more skillful play. If they were as skillful, they wouldnt have to cheat in the first place You see, I can make a nice strawman argument too, only I call a spade a spade when I do so.

  14. #114
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    So next time you are in a party red dooring a quest report yourself. By your definition you are cheating and ruining my game experience.

    This is my point, play your game. Dont worry about others. If what others are doing doesnt allow you to enjoy yourself, remove them from the equation by playing with someone else.

    It is just SO DAMNED SIMPLE it boggles.

    And I should be clear...I dont give a rats rear about the twists. If it was changed today that is great. If not, thats great too. What hacks my arse is when folks try to police how I can or cannot play the game. You do you. I'll do me. And we'll both get it done.

  15. #115
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    So next time you are in a party red dooring a quest report yourself. By your definition you are cheating and ruining my game experience.
    There was already commentation on that back in 2007 and again in 2008. Turbine wasnt nearly as fight club back then as they are now.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Really?

    You need to try harder to justify cheating in a video game. But whatever allows you to sleep at night, justify away. Just don't cry when your caught.
    That's funny, the devs have never made a statement on the issue, and its not in the list of known bugs. If they want to clarify for us or add it to the bugs list, then I'd agree with you all day.

    Otherwise at this point, I think you people for calling for mass bans need to realize that its not going to happen, because nobodies cheating, and if it did happen for some stupid reason, they might as well just shut the servers down, they'd lose far too many players by deciding to retro punish people for doing something that as far as we know is working as intended whether you like it or not.

  17. #117
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    So next time you are in a party red dooring a quest report yourself. By your definition you are cheating and ruining my game experience.

    This is my point, play your game. Dont worry about others. If what others are doing doesnt allow you to enjoy yourself, remove them from the equation by playing with someone else.

    It is just SO DAMNED SIMPLE it boggles.

    And I should be clear...I dont give a rats rear about the twists. If it was changed today that is great. If not, thats great too. What hacks my arse is when folks try to police how I can or cannot play the game. You do you. I'll do me. And we'll both get it done.
    You have agreed not to cheat/exploit.

    If you cannot live up to that agreement why shouldn't you be reported and held accountable for your actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  18. #118
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Yeah I hear ya Chai, I really wish they'd cut that ****. Some solid guidance one way or the other would make a big difference. By not changing it and not advising it is not WAI it leaves the whole thing open to interpretation IMO. And in that interpretation is where we as a community are having our disconnect on it.

  19. #119
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Ok wait wait, time out. Myself, thrudh, hendrik, AND troll are agreeing in the same thread. How is there any other trolling here, I thought we controlled exclusive rights. The rest of you owe us royalties. Please have the checks in the mail before the vortex opens up and swallows the multiverse due to massive division by zero.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    And I should be clear...I dont give a rats rear about the twists. If it was changed today that is great. If not, thats great too. What hacks my arse is when folks try to police how I can or cannot play the game. You do you. I'll do me. And we'll both get it done.
    This pretty much sums it up. You pick your twists and drag them on your hotbar and they work just like do at level 20+ Its been like this for so long I just figured its how its supposed to be so I do it. If they take it out that's cool. If they leave it in, whatever. It really doesn't matter to me if I'm popping healing springs or cocoon, or using wands/scrolls. The devs are usually pretty quick about fixing bugs that actually benefit players, so if something like this has been in game for so long...maybe its just not a bug?

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