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  1. #81
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    If the people who want to use this stuff kept to soloing, I personally wouldn't care all that much. It wouldn't be affecting me at all, and I'm not bothered by people taking shortcuts to "get through" content. But it's different when in a party.

    I don't report people who use this exploit, and I don't create any drama. I may ask someone not to use a healing or buff ability on me, and that's it. But if their use of these abilities is ruining the fun of the quest -- which is often the case -- then I'll excuse myself from the party when done the current quest.

    I honestly can't recall ever seeing any of this "drama" in most groups I'm in. The abuse of these ED abilities is widespread, and most people don't want to speak up and say anything about it.
    It's gonna be gone in U20 - I'm predicting big-XP stones for re-levelling EDs and an ED-blank after the TR-pass.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Stay in your own group of exploiters and let those of us who want to actually have fun with whatever challenge is left in the game be. That goes for anybody else who resorts to taking advantage of bugs
    This. If cheaters/exploiters want to show quickly they can zip through past lives, at least have the decency to cheat by yourselves and not bring everyone else into it.
    Last edited by kwyjibo_lol; 09-10-2013 at 09:01 AM.

  3. #83
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    Title says it all. Heroic is not challenging. The only important element to DDO is grinding life after life after life. So what if people with ED's get to use their abilities on Heroic level quests? It's not like the Heroic quests are difficult to begin with!

    This sounds more like people whining about not having ED abilities they can use on Heroic lives than anything else. Suck it up, get some epic xp and some ED abilities of your own and quit complaining about how unfair it is. No one likes a crybaby.
    You may have turned DDO into grinding life after life after life, but thats not the only thing important by a long shot. Any assumption that people are whining about not having twists they can use in heroic is straw man argumentation. No one is jealous of exploiters.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  4. #84
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    Yes, grinding heroic is annoying. That's no excuse to cheat - that's an occasion to look at the grind and make it less annoying.

    /ignore the players doing it, if you feel like that. Or just ignore them doing it. Doing heroic elite is rarely challenging, anyway.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  5. #85
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    That's the definition of Exploiting.
    Mobs are exploiting too.
    So why cant we?

  6. #86
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    Heroic elite can still be challenging, depending on the character, level of experience and the content. I'm currently on a rogue life and finding some content rather easy and other content quite challenging -- especially quests that are heavy on undead.

    It's not a grind for me because I enjoy finding (legitimate) ways to get through the more difficult quests. It's part of enjoying the game, for me at least.

  7. #87
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Mobs are exploiting too.
    So why cant we?
    Mobs are doing what the computer tells them to do. They cannot choose whether or not to exploit. You can!

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by pssyche View Post
    I can't believe any sane person would consider this as wai, so I'm pretty sure you guys are just trolling.
    When I first learned of this I asked the person that taught me how to do it if it were a bug. He said he did not know for sure, but he thought it was working as intended because he knew for sure that the devs knew about it.

    It is true that my first thought when I learned of it was that it was a bug. When I think about twisting in some of those incredibly powerful abilities that can one-shot bosses it still sounds like a bug to me. But when I think about how long it has been in the game with apparently no serious attempts to fix it (as has been pointed out all they would need to do is reset all of our ED points when we TR) and when I look at how most players seem to use it (largely to learn rejuvenation cocoon on their spell point characters especially those that cannot heal like arcane casters) it appears that it may be WAI. Honestly, after seeing people cast rejuvenation cocoon on my heroic characters for months the only thing that makes me still think this may be an exploit is that some of those abilities just do too much damage to be useable at such low levels. If those few active ED abilities that do huge damage were untwistable at heroic levels I would think this is working as intended. And given that the developers still have not taken any steps to fix this (such as resetting ED's when you TR) I am currently unsure if this is a bug that they are going to label WAI so they don't have to fix it. That happens a lot in this game and we all have to adapt to it.

    My personal opinion is that people should feel free to twist in heroic levels, but should leave the huge damage abilities out of their twists. They should do this first because it makes the content very boring (how much fun is it really to one shot everything you look at?) and because it cuts down the fun for everyone else as well (how much fun is it to watch someone else one-shot everything they look at)? Other than that, enjoy your twists. Most of the passive ones are harmless and can be a nice addition to your character (every character that can't self heal should twist in the fully upgraded Fast Healing passive ability just to cut down on the amount of healing the other group members need to use on them).
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  9. #89
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Translates to;
    I'm an A-hole that exploits ridiculously easy content so leave me alone and let me cheat.
    Nice to know your one of those 'bad people' that DDO has.
    See, I can do that too.
    You're doing it wrong.

    Firstly, I used what you actually said to point out the Irony in acting all high and mighty, while at the same time being rather petty.

    Second, you assumption that I cheat, use exploits, or even need to is kind of absurd. I never said cheating, exploiting, or anything similar was okay, or a justifiable action. In fact I couldn't care less about the subject if I tried, since it affects me in no way what-so-ever. I don't use these exploits, I don't know anyone who does, and frankly Heroic content is mostly so easy that it doesn't matter.

    And finally, I'm a B*tch. If you're going to try an insult me, at least get your facts right.
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  10. #90
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Even with no twists at all it is very very very rare that I run into any problems on Heroic Elite even if im soloing. As we tend to be a couple levels of the quest before we do them (mostly due to BB mechanics) its just a laugher. The only real danger in the quests are Traps.

    Thats why I dont see why there is a problem....its not turning hard/challenging content into a laugher...its taking easy content and blowing through it.

    To each his own....my ****er is the drama involved with the whole thing. Most everyone in the game at this point is aware of the twists. To be shocked to see it happening in your pug group and then to continually report those players is just .....petty.

    IMO if you are part of the crowd that feels the need to report it and cant seem to have fun when people join you and use twists you may want to start limiting your contact with the general game population. If it is that painful for you I mean....

    Thats what Im doing..limiting my exposure to the gen pop. Not because I condone or hate the twisters...,..but because I dont want to be involved in the yak yak yak about it while I'm trying to enjoy playing my game. The 10 days or so it takes to finish a TR are just much better spent with very little sampling of the LFM panel (or none at all).

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    I'm sorry man, but using common sense can sometimes help. Epic destinies are designed and intended for epic levels only.

    Furthermore, it's Turbines policy not to respond to threads about exploits. Only if something is not an exploit, you will get a confirmation that it is not.
    haha, common sense would say I can spend AP for EVERY arcane archer enhancement at heroic, but it's not the case, some thing only available if you are LVL 25!! for AP you get from HEROIC levels!! so, it could be totally WAI for twists, it's in the game from MOTU, it's more than a year!!!

  12. #92
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You may have turned DDO into grinding life after life after life, but thats not the only thing important by a long shot. Any assumption that people are whining about not having twists they can use in heroic is straw man argumentation. No one is jealous of exploiters.
    But that is exactly what DDO is about Chai. It certainly is not about the new content that gets rolled out every few months. DDO is about grinding out past lives and then grinding out gear for your final build. The game is about repeating quests over and over and over again until you get what you want. And I assure you, some of the people whining in this thread certainly do not have any ED abilities and are jealous pure and simple. There really doesn't have to be more of a reason than that. People are jealous of what they do not or can not have.
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  13. #93
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Even with no twists at all it is very very very rare that I run into any problems on Heroic Elite even if im soloing. As we tend to be a couple levels of the quest before we do them (mostly due to BB mechanics) its just a laugher. The only real danger in the quests are Traps.

    Thats why I dont see why there is a problem....its not turning hard/challenging content into a laugher...its taking easy content and blowing through it.

    To each his own....my ****er is the drama involved with the whole thing. Most everyone in the game at this point is aware of the twists. To be shocked to see it happening in your pug group and then to continually report those players is just .....petty.

    IMO if you are part of the crowd that feels the need to report it and cant seem to have fun when people join you and use twists you may want to start limiting your contact with the general game population. If it is that painful for you I mean....

    Thats what Im doing..limiting my exposure to the gen pop. Not because I condone or hate the twisters...,..but because I dont want to be involved in the yak yak yak about it while I'm trying to enjoy playing my game. The 10 days or so it takes to finish a TR are just much better spent with very little sampling of the LFM panel (or none at all).
    I dont have to limit my contact because im not the one on the wrong here. The exploiters have to limit their actions, because they are in the wrong. Its not a personal discussion regarding whether I like it or not, its a discussion of playing the game as intended, which the exploiters certainly are not.

    Trying to argue it doesnt affect anyone else and then recommending people limit their contact if they dont like it is a direct contradiction in terms. If people need to limit their own activity in order to have fun it certainly does affect them.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #94
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalinaa View Post
    haha, common sense would say I can spend AP for EVERY arcane archer enhancement at heroic, but it's not the case, some thing only available if you are LVL 25!! for AP you get from HEROIC levels!! so, it could be totally WAI for twists, it's in the game from MOTU, it's more than a year!!!
    I don't understand your point. Enhancements are used both for heroic and epic levels and are not exclusive to heroic levels. Epic destinies are exclusive to epic levels. While I don't know the specific issue you are referring to, it's not directly nonsensical.

    I do agree that a poor precedent is given by leaving the exploit in for a year and not fixing it.

  15. #95
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Mobs are doing what the computer tells them to do. They cannot choose whether or not to exploit. You can!
    So whats the big deal then?
    Dont like exploiting, dont do it, like it, do it.

  16. #96
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    The last time I asked on the forums as to whether using twists in heroic content was okay, I was told by another forumite that it was WAI and then got linked to the ddo wiki as proof. I do remember there being a statement on the wiki to do with twists and that they could be used in heroic content. I'm having probs finding that again though so am wondering if it got edited away.

  17. #97
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    So whats the big deal then?
    Dont like exploiting, dont do it, like it, do it.
    It's completely up to yourself if you want to exploit or not, but it's certainly not an intended game mechanic and it should therefore be fixed. Especially if it spoils the fun of other people who want to play fair.

  18. #98
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zillee View Post
    The last time I asked on the forums as to whether using twists in heroic content was okay, I was told by another forumite that it was WAI and then got linked to the ddo wiki as proof. I do remember there being a statement on the wiki to do with twists and that they could be used in heroic content. I'm having probs finding that again though so am wondering if it got edited away.
    Being on wiki doesnt mean its proof, wiki is edited by players, devs or turbine have nothing with it.

  19. #99
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    It's completely up to yourself if you want to exploit or not, but it's certainly not an intended game mechanic and it should therefore be fixed. Especially if it spoils the fun of other people who want to play fair.
    If they fix it, I want them to fix all bugs, not just the ones that benefit players.
    Do you think its fair to us that they dont want to fix bugs for years, but can fix bugs like this?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFlay View Post
    *** that is cheating? I set my twists and drag them to my hot bar and they work...isn't that WAI? I thought I was being a nice guy for months now popping healing springs for people in heroic quests. Every time I pop healing spring on a group they say ty, nobody accuses me of cheating, and I've seen more people using them then not. I just figured those that weren't using them were just using passive ones like sense weakness.
    It's very clearly not WAI. Think for yourself.

    I don't really care who's using what, but I would indeed take offense to someone assuming that I was gimp enough to need an epic booster seat in heroic.

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