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Thread: U19 Monkcher

  1. #1
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Default U19 Monkcher

    Yet another character needing optimization after the enhancement pass:

    Elf
    12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Fighter

    STR 16 + 4 levels +3 tome
    DEX 17 + 1 level +3 tome
    CON 10 +3 tome
    INT 8
    WIS 16 +1 level +4 tome
    CHA 8


    1R Point Blank Shot
    2M Zen Archery
    3R Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    4M Dodge
    5R
    6M Power Attack
    7R
    8R
    9M Improved Critical: Ranged
    10R
    11M
    12M Precision, 10 Thousand Stars
    13M
    14M
    15M Improved Precise Shot
    16M
    17M
    18M Grandmaster of Forms
    19F Cleave
    20F Great Cleave
    21 Overwhelming Critical
    24 Combat Archery
    27 Improved Martial Arts


    Anyone think that the DEX/WIS build is better somehow? I'm open to the idea, but this looks so much better.
    Last edited by elg582; 09-17-2013 at 01:32 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post


    Anyone think that the DEX/WIS build is better somehow? I'm open to the idea, but this looks so much better.
    Str / wis is the way to go.

    There's not much point having 10k stars if you don't pump your wisdom.

    your an elf.
    bump con to 10.
    have just enough dex to qualify for combat archery with tomes.
    have just enough str to qualify for overwhelming crit with tomes and 2-4 level ups depending on tomes.
    put the rest of your stats into wisdom.

    My monkchers Stats

    Str 16 + 4 tome + 3 levels (qualified for OC)
    Dex 17 + 4 tome (qualified for combat archery)
    Con 11
    Int 8
    Wis 17 +4 tome + 4 levels (with 10k stars, the more wis the better.)
    Cha 8

    Wisdom is also your to hit stat, there's no point in dumping dex and wisdom to focus soley on strength.
    Last edited by fTdOmen; 09-09-2013 at 08:59 PM.

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Missing Precision.
    Epic Damage Reduction might be better choice than perma haste.
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  4. #4
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Many good points, thx.

    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Str / wis is the way to go.

    There's not much point having 10k stars if you don't pump your wisdom.

    your an elf.
    bump con to 10.
    have just enough dex to qualify for combat archery with tomes.
    have just enough str to qualify for overwhelming crit with tomes and 2-4 level ups depending on tomes.
    put the rest of your stats into wisdom.
    Ah, yea, except that I only have +2 STR and DEX tomes, so this is basically my version of that

    Edit: Went and bought a +3 DEX, haggling for a +3 STR now.

    Dropping CON is a good idea, though.

    What I meant by DEX/WIS was dumping STR entirely and maxing DEX for highest pure damage. No OC, but 4-5 more damage per hit.




    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Missing Precision.
    Without hard numbers on how fortification and crits work nowadays, I'm not blowing a feat that may or may not have an effect on any particular fight, although that might be a good choice on a DEX/WIS build since I won't have PA/Cleave/Great Cleave.

    Edit: Noticed that I was hitting the dodge cap, so I replaced Mobility with Precision.


    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Epic Damage Reduction might be better choice than perma haste.
    Considering that I just ran a eh Gianthold PUG with a sorc and a wizard, neither of whom had haste available... if I only ran with guildies, that might be a good idea, but between Shadow Veil and Dragonmark Displacement, this build is already about impossible to hit.
    Last edited by elg582; 09-09-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    At what point did we decide starting below CON 14 was a good idea? Did I miss the memo?

    BTW, has Imp Martial Arts been fixed so it works w/bows now?

  6. #6
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    At what point did we decide starting below CON 14 was a good idea? Did I miss the memo?
    When you no longer needed 16 base CON for Earth III stance?

    I wouldn't go that low an a pure melee, but when I'm ranging ~85% of the time, anyway...


    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    BTW, has Imp Martial Arts been fixed so it works w/bows now?
    I don't think so.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    Yet another character needing optimization after the enhancement pass:

    Elf
    12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Fighter

    STR 16 + 4 levels +3 tome
    DEX 17 + 1 level +3 tome
    CON 10 +3 tome
    INT 8
    WIS 16 +1 level +4 tome
    CHA 8


    1R Point Blank Shot
    2M Zen Archery
    3R Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    4M Dodge
    5R
    6M Power Attack
    7R
    8R
    9M Improved Critical: Ranged
    10R
    11M
    12M Precision, 10 Thousand Stars
    13M
    14M
    15M Improved Precise Shot
    16M
    17M
    18M Grandmaster of Forms
    19F Cleave
    20F Great Cleave
    21 Overwhelming Critical: Ranged
    24 Combat Archery
    27 Blinding Speed


    Anyone think that the DEX/WIS build is better somehow? I'm open to the idea, but this looks so much better.
    What're your enhancements? Since U19 that's half the build and you didn't list it.

  8. #8
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    What're your enhancements? Since U19 that's half the build and you didn't list it.
    Ah, well, I imagine that that will vary from build to build (depending on what melee weapons you have available, etc), but here's mine:


    Elf
    -Elven Accuracy I
    -Elven Dexterity I
    -Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus I
    -Aerenal Weapons Training
    -Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    -Arcanum I
    -Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    -Arcane Archer

    Arcane Archer
    -Arcane Archer
    -Morphic Arrows
    -Metalline Arrows
    -Aligned Arrows
    -Shadow Arrows
    -Master of Imbuement
    -Energy of the Wild
    -Soul Magic
    -Conjure Arrows
    -Elemental Arrows (entire line)
    -Terror Arrows
    -Paralyzing Arrows
    -Banishing Arrows
    -Smiting Arrows
    -Arrow of Slaying
    -Moonbow

    Ninja Spy
    -Ninja Training II
    -Sneak Attack Training II
    -Acrobatic III
    -Shadow Veil
    -Agility I
    -Sting of the Ninja

    Henshin Mystic
    -Riddle of Fire
    -Staff Training
    -Way of the Patient Tortoise
    -Quick Strike

    Deepwood Stalker (I would put more points here, but OMFG, could they have made the tier abilities any less useful?)
    -Far Shot

    I use staves for melee (Sireth, Dreampiercer, Rahl's Might) since I couldn't squeeze GTWF in, so a few points in Henshin make sense. If you took GTWF somewhere, Shintao + Tempest would give some hefty attack speed.

    Other than that, this build is just exploiting the Displacement + Incorporeal synergy for defense and trying not to draw too much aggro from Manyshot + 10k Stars + Arrow of Slaying.

    Obviously, Fury of the Wild is the best ED, with some Shiradi and GM of Flowers abilities twisted in (if they ever fix A Dance of Flowers to work with bows...!), although I had a lot of fun in Legendary Dreadnought opening up GMoF.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  9. #9
    Community Member gDra's Avatar
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    You have covered the essential feats. I cant't comment on enhancements yet, lacking experience.

    I am about to rebuild my monk into a monkcher and wondered if more people choose to forgo Shintao enhancements.

    (This opens up monk dilly for my halfelf to get 20% Heal amp and another point of wisdom, while losing the option for 15 PRR and HP)

    And about your level order (might be your taste):
    It seems easier to start into the game with PA, Cleave, Great Cleave.
    If you intend to max any skills, its also better to take classes with more skill points and less cross class skills last.
    > Leading to early Fighter levels
    Last edited by gDra; 09-12-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    I use staves for melee (Sireth, Dreampiercer, Rahl's Might) since I couldn't squeeze GTWF in, so a few points in Henshin make sense. If you took GTWF somewhere, Shintao + Tempest would give some hefty attack speed.
    You could drop Dodge, which is no longer a pre-req for anything on this build, and rejigger your feats to squeeze in GTWF; move Precision to one of our monk feats.

  11. #11
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gDra View Post
    And about your level order (might be your taste):
    It seems easier to start into the game with PA, Cleave, Great Cleave.
    If you intend to max any skills, its also better to take classes with more skill points and less cross class skills last.
    > Leading to early Fighter levels
    You have to have 12 monk levels by 18 to take GM of Forms, and since this is a 80%+ ranged build, the Cleaves don't mean that much.

    Besides, you'll barely be able to keep Concentration and Balance decently high, as few skill points as Fighters and Monks get.


    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    You could drop Dodge, which is no longer a pre-req for anything on this build, and rejigger your feats to squeeze in GTWF; move Precision to one of our monk feats.
    You could, but I already had a Sireth because no one else wanted it...

    Also, between this build being super AP-tight as it is and the improvements to staves, I'm not sure you are getting as much advantage as you might think. Just the full AA line eats up 56 AP (including 14 from Elf, which is why I don't feel so bad about the dragonmark ), and you need 13 in Ninja for DEX to damage with bows, Shadow Veil, and Sting of the Ninja, leaving you just enough AP for Deft Strikes and Tempest, but none of the real goodies from higher tiers. Or, you can get Quick Strike for 25% Doublestrike with Staves half the time.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  12. #12
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    Have you considered 8 Ftr / 6 Mnk / 6 Rng to open up the Kensei tree fully and get more Feats from fighter levels for WF, GWF, Wspec and Power Crit to go all out on ranged dps?

  13. #13
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Have you considered 8 Ftr / 6 Mnk / 6 Rng to open up the Kensei tree fully and get more Feats from fighter levels for WF, GWF, Wspec and Power Crit to go all out on ranged dps?
    You lose as much as you gain, IMO; you WILL get aggro with this build, so more monk is better, you would blow one of your extra feats on Master of Forms, and as I pointed out earlier, you don't have the AP to take advantage of any other trees above the first 2 tiers, anyway.

    And the enhancement you want from Kensei, Keen Edge, locks out Arrow of Slaying and Improved Elemental Arrows, either of which alone would be better.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    You lose as much as you gain, IMO; you WILL get aggro with this build, so more monk is better, you would blow one of your extra feats on Master of Forms, and as I pointed out earlier, you don't have the AP to take advantage of any other trees above the first 2 tiers, anyway.

    And the enhancement you want from Kensei, Keen Edge, locks out Arrow of Slaying and Improved Elemental Arrows, either of which alone would be better.
    I see, thanks for the explanation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    At what point did we decide starting below CON 14 was a good idea? Did I miss the memo?
    Yes, it's right next to the "Things new players say for 100.00" pile.
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    Ah, well, I imagine that that will vary from build to build (depending on what melee weapons you have available, etc), but here's mine:


    Elf
    -Elven Accuracy I
    -Elven Dexterity I
    -Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus I
    -Aerenal Weapons Training
    -Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    -Arcanum I
    -Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    -Arcane Archer

    Arcane Archer
    -Arcane Archer
    -Morphic Arrows
    -Metalline Arrows
    -Aligned Arrows
    -Shadow Arrows
    -Master of Imbuement
    -Energy of the Wild
    -Soul Magic
    -Conjure Arrows
    -Elemental Arrows (entire line)
    -Terror Arrows
    -Paralyzing Arrows
    -Banishing Arrows
    -Smiting Arrows
    -Arrow of Slaying
    -Moonbow

    Ninja Spy
    -Ninja Training II
    -Sneak Attack Training II
    -Acrobatic III
    -Shadow Veil
    -Agility I
    -Sting of the Ninja

    Henshin Mystic
    -Riddle of Fire
    -Staff Training
    -Way of the Patient Tortoise
    -Quick Strike

    Deepwood Stalker (I would put more points here, but OMFG, could they have made the tier abilities any less useful?)
    -Far Shot

    I use staves for melee (Sireth, Dreampiercer, Rahl's Might) since I couldn't squeeze GTWF in, so a few points in Henshin make sense. If you took GTWF somewhere, Shintao + Tempest would give some hefty attack speed.

    Other than that, this build is just exploiting the Displacement + Incorporeal synergy for defense and trying not to draw too much aggro from Manyshot + 10k Stars + Arrow of Slaying.

    Obviously, Fury of the Wild is the best ED, with some Shiradi and GM of Flowers abilities twisted in (if they ever fix A Dance of Flowers to work with bows...!), although I had a lot of fun in Legendary Dreadnought opening up GMoF.
    Any reason why you unlocked AA via Elf Tree rather than just Class Tree? Im guessing you needed to spend x amount of pts for something else?

    Ilmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlmerSilverhilt View Post
    Any reason why you unlocked AA via Elf Tree rather than just Class Tree? Im guessing you needed to spend x amount of pts for something else?

    Ilmer
    Because if they used the Class Tree they would only be able to progress to Level 6, which means no Core Abilities above Level 6.

    Would mean they couldn't get:

    Metalline Arrows.
    Aligned Arrows.
    Shadow Arrows.
    Master of Imbuement.

  18. #18
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    Something to note for a Monkcher in the current system: Strength is only used for Overwhelming Critical, not damage. The second Ninja Spy core enhancement makes bows use their Dex for damage if you are centered. This effect overwrites Bow Strength, not letting you use the higher of the two values.

  19. #19
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Because if they used the Class Tree they would only be able to progress to Level 6, which means no Core Abilities above Level 6.

    Would mean they couldn't get:

    Metalline Arrows.
    Aligned Arrows.
    Shadow Arrows.
    Master of Imbuement.
    6 ranger is enough for metalline arrows.

    Given how easy pure good augments are, I've not really missed aligned arrows yet.
    Shadow arrows suck on a monkcher given the penalty to doubleshot after 10k stars & manyshot.
    Master of Imbument is pretty good atm with the bug, won't be worth much when it's fixed.

    I too am surprised the op blew 4ap on elven AA.

  20. #20
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwonbush View Post
    Something to note for a Monkcher in the current system: Strength is only used for Overwhelming Critical, not damage. The second Ninja Spy core enhancement makes bows use their Dex for damage if you are centered. This effect overwrites Bow Strength, not letting you use the higher of the two values.
    Carpone, who first noticed the Ninja Training II+Bow Strength bug, thinks that it's fixed in U19.2. I haven't looked myself, though I should.

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