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  1. #1
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    Default Suggestions for a melee TWF DPS multiclass build??

    Hey I would appreciate some thoughts on a melee crossclass build:

    main goals:

    DPS, DPS, DPS, DPS
    TWF-- khopeshes
    good tactical maneuver dc's

    self sustainability-- **** it I got hires and healers for that, if i wanted self sustainability i would play bard or fvs

    in a nutshell- is there a version of Blitz build for the new enhancements?

  2. #2
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacyreus View Post
    self sustainability-- **** it I got hires and healers for that
    I'm so glad I TR'd my cleric.

  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacyreus View Post

    in a nutshell- is there a version of Blitz build for the new enhancements?
    First - throwing survivability out the window is just plain stupid. Hirelings are useless 90% of the time and finding a divine that'll actually heal you is like trying to find three wise men and a virgin in New Jersey.

    With that caveat . . . the strongest TWFer needs:

    - at least 3 ranger levels (10% more off-hand attacks)
    - at least 1 monk level (another 10% off-hand while centered which a kensai can be)
    - at least 8 fighter levels (top tier kensai) and centered weapons
    - at least master of forms.

    Currently running a Fighter 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2 centered "monster" build. It's good, might not be the highest DPS TWFer but it's the highest I've personally seen.

  4. #4
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    First - throwing survivability out the window is just plain stupid. Hirelings are useless 90% of the time and finding a divine that'll actually heal you is like trying to find three wise men and a virgin in New Jersey.

    With that caveat . . . the strongest TWFer needs:

    - at least 3 ranger levels (10% more off-hand attacks)
    - at least 1 monk level (another 10% off-hand while centered which a kensai can be)
    - at least 8 fighter levels (top tier kensai) and centered weapons
    - at least master of forms.

    Currently running a Fighter 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2 centered "monster" build. It's good, might not be the highest DPS TWFer but it's the highest I've personally seen.
    Word on the forums from one forum poster is that 3 rangers off hand does not stack with deft strikes from shintao monk 1. I have not personally tested that out. Have you had the opportunity to do so? I know this is the multiclass thread but pure rogue twf and I am thinking pure ranger are both pretty solid from a dps standopint neither has great tactics so your idea of a multi class with fighter levels is probably the correct call. I would go 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 cleric myself especially if deft strikes does not stack with core 3 ranger.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  5. #5
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Word on the forums from one forum poster is that 3 rangers off hand does not stack with deft strikes from shintao monk 1. I have not personally tested that out. Have you had the opportunity to do so?
    You know on Lamania I beat the ever-living stuff out of kobolds for hours and yes it did work there . . . but since that was like 18 patches ago I should test this again.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I know this is the multiclass thread but pure rogue twf and I am thinking pure ranger are both pretty solid from a dps standopint neither has great tactics so your idea of a multi class with fighter levels is probably the correct call. I would go 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 cleric myself especially if deft strikes does not stack with core 3 ranger.
    - Rogues are probably the best DPS still like they always have been. Splash or not I'm not sure.
    - That gives up evasion and i THINK I can get close to a 60 reflex save on my 12/6/2 without gimping it so it's worth having. Also a Dance of Flowers working with weapons is really strong.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Currently running a Fighter 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2 centered "monster" build. It's good, might not be the highest DPS TWFer but it's the highest I've personally seen.
    What do you think of rgr 2 / monk 6 instead? You lose Ram's Might and 4 rgr feats (not that anyone cares about Diehard); but gain an extra monk feat, Adept of Forms, Shadow Veil, 10K Stars if going the monkcher route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What do you think of rgr 2 / monk 6 instead? You lose Ram's Might and 4 rgr feats (not that anyone cares about Diehard); but gain an extra monk feat, Adept of Forms, Shadow Veil, 10K Stars if going the monkcher route.
    For a moncher yes, but not a melee oriented toon. I think you are trading offense for defense, which isn't inherently bad but isn't the goal of the OP. The monk feat options give nothing that compensates for losing precise shot, ITWF, and especially manyshot which are all very strong feats to get for free. Adept offsets one of those, and 10k stars is key for a moncher build, but for melee it would fall short I think. I found even with the incredible # of feats this build gets (including auto-grants) you still want about 6 more, so losing 2 isn't appealing, especially when you also lose ram's might and resist elements. 8/6/6 would probably be a good split on a moncher, you lose 2 fighter feats to gain a monk feat and stance feat and lose power surge (which is no big deal if going elf for the dex damage and racial damage bonuses). But... I'm no expert on monchers =)

  8. #8
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You know on Lamania I beat the ever-living stuff out of kobolds for hours and yes it did work there . . . but since that was like 18 patches ago I should test this again.



    - Rogues are probably the best DPS still like they always have been. Splash or not I'm not sure.
    - That gives up evasion and i THINK I can get close to a 60 reflex save on my 12/6/2 without gimping it so it's worth having. Also a Dance of Flowers working with weapons is really strong.
    I am very intrigued with the ranger tempest higher core abilities the capstone of 25% off hand double strike for example looks great. The problem is actually the epic destinies do not tend to favor a character that hits more so much as hits harder. The fury of the wild's epic moment has a 5 minute cooldown and primal nature has a limit of acquiring 1 spirt every 3 seconds which both restrict the tempest advantage of hitting more often. A tempest should be able to do these epic moments more frequently then a two handed fighting character for example, but really can not due to the limits put on these abilities. Now vorpal or perhaps ability score damage if they come back into vogue have some interesting possiblities.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #9
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I am very intrigued with the ranger tempest higher core abilities the capstone of 25% off hand double strike for example looks great.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but an user posted his tests about tempest capstone.
    He found that his offhand doublestrike chance wasn't 25%, but one quarter of his mainhand doublestrike chance. Don't know if it's / was a bug or WAI.

    EDIT: I'm not wrong, it's a bug.
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5077060
    Last edited by mezzorco; 09-10-2013 at 01:18 AM.

  10. #10
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    If I were doing a TWF DPS build, I'd go 9 Monk/8 Fighter/3 Ranger for centered Nightmares, Improved Evasion, 10% offhand attacks and 75 positive spell power. The level draining from them exceeds whatever damage you think you're doing with a khopesh, or sneak attack from a rogue.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What do you think of rgr 2 / monk 6 instead? You lose Ram's Might and 4 rgr feats (not that anyone cares about Diehard); but gain an extra monk feat, Adept of Forms, Shadow Veil, 10K Stars if going the monkcher route.
    You lose precise shot, ITWF, and Manyshot. Since the point is to be centered, you need the 3 mostly worthless weapon focus/specialization feats... And Overwhelming Critical requires 3 pre-req feats (PA, Cleave, Great Cleave), so there's a lot of feats one needs to be a centered fighter with manyshot and Overwhelming Critical.

    If you want the 6 monk levels, I'd suggest dropping 4 fighter levels... You only lose 1 feat that way. I changed my 12/6/2 fighter/ranger/monk to a 8/6/6 fighter/ranger/monk, and I love him... Master of Dodge, plus 25% incorporeal, plus the good monk stances. And still able to stun. Usually have him in Fury of the Wild.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #12
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    If I were doing a TWF DPS build, I'd go 9 Monk/8 Fighter/3 Ranger for centered Nightmares, Improved Evasion, 10% offhand attacks and 75 positive spell power. The level draining from them exceeds whatever damage you think you're doing with a khopesh, or sneak attack from a rogue.
    That's for epic elite only right? Because they have so many hit points, a neg level takes away a lot more hit points than epic hard and epic normal, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  13. #13
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I am very intrigued with the ranger tempest higher core abilities the capstone of 25% off hand double strike for example looks great. The problem is actually the epic destinies do not tend to favor a character that hits more so much as hits harder. The fury of the wild's epic moment has a 5 minute cooldown and primal nature has a limit of acquiring 1 spirt every 3 seconds which both restrict the tempest advantage of hitting more often. A tempest should be able to do these epic moments more frequently then a two handed fighting character for example, but really can not due to the limits put on these abilities. Now vorpal or perhaps ability score damage if they come back into vogue have some interesting possiblities.
    I notice my TWF regens Adrenaline almost as fast as he uses it (and since I have the knockdown effect in Fury, I use it a lot even on trash). So there's one advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  14. #14
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    That's for epic elite only right? Because they have so many hit points, a neg level takes away a lot more hit points than epic hard and epic normal, right?
    Even in eHard it has a pretty large effect at the start of a fight. 1d3 negs will take away 500ish hp from what I remember of my monk days. Certainly nothing to scoff at.

  15. #15
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What do you think of rgr 2 / monk 6 instead? You lose Ram's Might and 4 rgr feats (not that anyone cares about Diehard); but gain an extra monk feat, Adept of Forms, Shadow Veil, 10K Stars if going the monkcher route.
    Meh . . . shadowveil is kinda meh with 10% easily available with gear. Honestly this thing it so AP tight that I wouldn't be able to afford this anyway.

    and you need 3 ranger fro 100% off-hand anyway.

    and yes . . . Tempest and Deft-strikes ABSOLUTELY DOES STACK.

  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    That's for epic elite only right? Because they have so many hit points, a neg level takes away a lot more hit points than epic hard and epic normal, right?
    On EH the nightmare is even better. The Vamprism is mostly all that's needed to keep you alive and the PK procs constantly on low-fort mobs.

    I'm heavy blades which affects BOTH Khopesh and B-Sword. I also have dual balizardes/celestias which would have been more raw DPS over the Drow Khopesh but since we now have CR70+ trash mobs the level draining is more important.

    His raw DPS with drow Khopesh is still pretty friggin good, average EE Sobrien kill times (solo-scaling, helpless, fighter dungeon scaling) is about 25 seconds.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 09-10-2013 at 08:09 AM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I am very intrigued with the ranger tempest higher core abilities the capstone of 25% off hand double strike for example looks great. The problem is actually the epic destinies do not tend to favor a character that hits more so much as hits harder. The fury of the wild's epic moment has a 5 minute cooldown and primal nature has a limit of acquiring 1 spirt every 3 seconds which both restrict the tempest advantage of hitting more often. A tempest should be able to do these epic moments more frequently then a two handed fighting character for example, but really can not due to the limits put on these abilities. Now vorpal or perhaps ability score damage if they come back into vogue have some interesting possiblities.
    I play in FoTW 99% of the time. TWFers have no problem charging up adrenalines. My ESoS toon almost wants to cry when in FoTW.

  18. #18
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    Default race

    Thanks all for the suggestions and comments


    Nightmares is nice for mobs-- doesnt mean dps though, its not going to work on red/purple names. adn its not build worthy as you can kill a lot of mobs and deal 0 damage to a boss with what would be the worst build ever.

    My "dps" referred to sustained damage that works even on red/purple names. everything else is just a matter of weapon, not build per se. I am asking for the build that gives me more damage, not more kills. I do apreciate the hint and i will make my best to put my hads on my second nightamares.

    I am pretty much convinced to go for a 12 fighter/6 ranger/ 2 monk

    im thinking the only really valid race would be human, any other?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I notice my TWF regens Adrenaline almost as fast as he uses it (and since I have the knockdown effect in Fury, I use it a lot even on trash). So there's one advantage.
    This. Fury is great for TWF for just this reason, especially if you have stunning blow also, you can pretty much alternate stunning blow and adrenaline and not run out. By the time you might run out of adrenaline you kick in fury shot and recharge it.

  20. #20
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacyreus View Post
    Thanks all for the suggestions and comments


    Nightmares is nice for mobs-- doesnt mean dps though, its not going to work on red/purple names. adn its not build worthy as you can kill a lot of mobs and deal 0 damage to a boss with what would be the worst build ever.

    My "dps" referred to sustained damage that works even on red/purple names. everything else is just a matter of weapon, not build per se. I am asking for the build that gives me more damage, not more kills. I do apreciate the hint and i will make my best to put my hads on my second nightamares.
    Heavy Blades Kensai focus affects bother Khopesh and B-sword - nightmares on trash and Drow khopesh on red-names has been an excellent combo so far.

    Drow Khopesh is not that far behind a balizarde, It was close enough in the beat-down tests that I decided to go with heavy blades.

    And against orange-names where a woowoo can remove 10-20k HP . . . it's more damage than any other weapon. And the more ridiculous Turbine gets with mob HP the better Nightmares get.

    So yes, going light-blades would get you SLIGHTLY more boss DPS but the over-all utility of the character is less. That said it saves you two feats not needed Khopesh and B-Sword proficiencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by cacyreus View Post
    I am pretty much convinced to go for a 12 fighter/6 ranger/ 2 monk
    It's a very strong split, there are arguments for different ones but so far I am happy with this split.

    Quote Originally Posted by cacyreus View Post
    im thinking the only really valid race would be human, any other?
    Human is probably the best. I went with the below feats (not 100% on the order, I winged it during the LR):

    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack

    Level 2 (Ranger)

    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave

    Level 4 (Ranger)

    Level 5 (Ranger)

    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave

    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh

    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword

    Level 11 (Fighter)

    Level 12 (Fighter)

    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

    Level 13 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

    Level 14 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision

    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Adept of forms

    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

    Level 17 (Fighter)

    Level 18 (Fighter)

    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
    Feat: (Selected) Master of forms

    Level 19 (Fighter)

    Level 20 (Fighter)

    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

    Epic Feats:

    21: OC
    24: Epic Toughness
    26: Superior TWF
    27: Perma-haste
    28: Whatever

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