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  1. #1
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Barbarians have a tree that has an Armor class bonus?

    What is the purpose of this?

    What specific build would benefit from this.

    It must be a multi class build.

    Which build and why?

    Actually this is good for the game. I like to see that something positive can come from a unique build that might have this. But is it the general opinion that unless we have at least 90 to 100 armor class it is worthless to have AC and I do not see casters needing more than one level of Barb so that leaves caster builds out of the picture. So what is left?

    I would like to hear about the build that make use of this tree of armor class for any build with barbarian in it worth it.

    Or is armor class not such a big deal anymore?


    Lots of questions and speculation just from the thought of a Barbarian investing action points in armor class is crazy but worth it if anyone can prove it is warranted.

    I just don't see it working and to take these enhancements that add armor class to my barbarian build is just stupid in my opinion.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by zDragonz; 09-08-2013 at 08:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    does AC really have to be around 90-100 to be useful? o_O

  3. #3
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    I sit at 60-70 without actually putting in any effort and it's pretty good on EN and EH as well as heroic raids, for EE I sometimes see misses but I wouldn't waste AP on it unless you had some to spare as it's barely noticeable.

  4. #4
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    The AC is most worthwhile in heroic content, and that's fine with me. I won't complain about anything that lets my barbarian mitigate or avoid damage.

  5. #5
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    does AC really have to be around 90-100 to be useful? o_O
    Depending on the content and character you are running, yes.

    AC >100 and PRR >100 are both reasonable goals. Keep in mind that everything about a character's defenses is a combination of dodge, concealment, incorporeality, armor class, physical resistance rating and damage reduction. If you are running a front-line melee character and do not have the highest, or nearly the highest, attainable numbers in each of these then you can be in serious trouble unless you are running low difficulty content.

    Non-melee characters (or second-line melee characters) can get by with less -- which sometimes is necessary when gear slots are at a premium.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    does AC really have to be around 90-100 to be useful? o_O
    Yes, on the forums. Where everything is done at the cap in only the hardest EE quests.

    If you meant the actual game, then no even a theoretical 15 or 20 percent miss chance from AC added to the other stuff like dodge PRR, etc. Helps in 90 of the game for 90 of your characters journey.

    On the forum something is either 100% immunity, or max crit chance, or max DPS, or its rubbish.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  7. #7
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    does AC really have to be around 90-100 to be useful? o_O
    AC is worthless unless you have above 120, even then it's the least important defense. The combat pass was suppossed to make ac worth more but in fact made it worth less imo.

    If you want to not be hit, get a

    blurry item, http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bracers..._%28Level_4%29

    ghostly item, http://ddowiki.com/page/Cloak_of_Invisibility

    (The links are for the lowest ml versions of each that I can think of)

    Dodge as much as you can based on your armor cap

    After that work on getting your saves up, then umd up so that you can cast fireshield scrolls.
    Last edited by Charononus; 09-08-2013 at 10:24 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Yes, on the forums. Where everything is done at the cap in only the hardest EE quests.

    If you meant the actual game, then no even a theoretical 15 or 20 percent miss chance from AC added to the other stuff like dodge PRR, etc. Helps in 90 of the game for 90 of your characters journey.

    On the forum something is either 100% immunity, or max crit chance, or max DPS, or its rubbish.
    That 15-20 is more like 5, as in only on a 1 because the defense at level means vs a mob that has the same cr as you. How often does that happen? Most the time they're much much higher.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    That 15-20 is more like 5, as in only on a 1 because the defense at level means vs a mob that has the same cr as you. How often does that happen? Most the time they're much much higher.
    First of all that number can be anything 40 to 50, 35 to 45, its called an example. Second I used the word "theoretical" after it meaning the actual number you manage to get, not the estimate the game shows you which we all know is misleading.

    The only place you need 120 (or whatever other number you want to pull out, is in a forum and some tiny portions of the game, that few of DDO's players actually.

    The following statement is true: AC is useful for most of the game, get as much as you can without overly worrying about min maxing It because its on a curve.

    Your statement is effectively false or at least extremely misleading because it needs to be massively excepted with a medicine advertisement like disclaimer about only being true after you've done almost all your leveling and progression through the game and only in some small parts of the least played and least popular parts of the game. Even then, the CR of mobs varies significantly, and so won't be true at all times. May cause runny ear holes, itchy eyeball, forum rolleyes, slight hair loss, exclamations of the word NI! Etc.
    Last edited by IronClan; 09-08-2013 at 11:14 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  10. #10
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    does AC really have to be around 90-100 to be useful? o_O
    The words AC and useful by definition equal each other out lol.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  11. #11
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    What's even more worthless is the horrible, HORRIBLE barbarian Capstone for Frenzy Berserker. It gives stacking +1 damage, -1 ac, and -1 attack bonus while ALSO giving you a SELF-dot of 1d20. All of this stacks every 6 seconds, until you are at 50% HP.

    So, you go to +2 dmg, -2 ac/atk, 2d20, then 3d20, and so on. The benefits are NOWHERE NEAR high enough to justify the INSANE penalties you. If it were simply 1d20 every 6 seconds, it would be bad enough but at least somewhat useful. But having it stack upon itself? Madness. Whomever designed this obviously did so within a godmode vacuum, and never tested it in any at-level quest where they could actually be hurt by the mobs.

  12. #12
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Yes, on the forums. Where everything is done at the cap in only the hardest EE quests.

    If you meant the actual game, then no even a theoretical 15 or 20 percent miss chance from AC added to the other stuff like dodge PRR, etc. Helps in 90 of the game for 90 of your characters journey.

    On the forum something is either 100% immunity, or max crit chance, or max DPS, or its rubbish.
    I usually disagree with a lot of what you say, but you are perfectly correct here.

    If not min/max blah blah blah.... the forumites will say it is gimp and useless.

    AC may be the lesser of the defences, but does play a big role in game. Anything from 70-120 is fine in most of the game, and gasp even in EE . Any miss is help in EE and any help getting missed helps when getting smacked for 200-300+ a hit.

    Most don't run EE llke everyone here claims to and prob only 60-70% are being slightly truthful.

    Anything you read on these boards is all about EE viability or not. Which a lot of people can not run or don't on a regular basis. I like running EE, but I don't always do it and would be lying if say do it all the time. XP farming on EH and such is so much faster and less time consuming for more xp for the time put in that run that mostly. EE is more for me a favor,fun, or loot runs not for xp.

    Now that being said making characters to the best of that builds abilities should always be a priority and EE is a good goal to shoot for.
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  13. #13
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    There's no intrinsic reason why a barbarian can't be tougher and better-defended than they have been in the game prior to this point. Up until now, it's a class that's been dominated by a single available prestige option which they've needed to be worthwhile, the Frenzied Berserker... which is your screaming madcap killer vision of the barbarian, the suicidal meathead who doesn't feel pain.

    There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not the only barbarian concept - just the only one that's been supported in the past. Barbarians have shield proficiency, dodge bonuses, a nice fat hit die, extra speed, medium armour with the potential to upgrade to heavy... the class itself supports the possibility of a more defensively oriented character, even if that's just a more durable (or less self-harming) striker. Occult Slayer and Ravager can both support playstyles that fall somewhere along that spectrum.

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