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  1. #1
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Default update 19 tank 8 monk 6 paladin 6 ranger

    It is a fact that tanks are not needed or efficient in the current content. This character is built with the raid coming next year in mind. The hope is that next year will have more tank friendly content. Here is to also hoping that features of this character will not be nerfed because the tank is the character I have remade the most in my time of playing compared to any other character type. Turbine has constantly changed the best tank builds repeatedly throughout DDO's history forcing players to change and alter their tanks many times. Sorry for the confusion, but actually this character will have to be an 8 ranger 6 paladin 6 monk in order to fit the below feats in.

    This character dual wields shortswords (celestia)and is in earth stance and sacred stance at all times. It has superior saves, 100 intimidate + high hate + intolerant blow, over 1k hit points, 140 prr, 32% dodge, cocoon and endless lay on hands for self healing with high positive spell power and healing amp. Suggestions are welcome.

    Halfling
    8 ranger 6 monk 6 paladin
    18 str = 6 str +8 str + 4 tome
    43 dex = 18 dex (10) + 7 levels ups +4 tome + 10 item +3 insight dex +1 racial enhancement +2 ship -2 mountain
    44 con = 17 con (13) +4 (tome) + 10 (item) +3 (insight) +4 (Mountain stance) +2 ship +3 destiny +1 exceptional
    15 int = 10 int (2) +4 tome
    30 wis = 13 wis (6) + 4 tome + 10 wisdom + 1 exceptional +2 ship
    31 cha = 14 cha (6) + 10 charisma + 1 exceptional + 4 tome + 2 ship

    Feats:
    1 Toughness
    3 Two Weapon Defense
    6 Spring Attack
    9 Empower Healing
    12 Master of Forms
    15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    18 grand master of forms
    Monk 1 dodge
    Monk 2 mobility
    Monk 6 Combat Expertise
    21 epic toughness
    24 bulwark of defense
    26 epic skill focus intimidate
    27 epic reflexes
    28 epic mage armor


    Physical Resistance: 134 = 25 (sacred defense) + 15 (grandmaster forms) + 10 (improved parry tempest) + 15 (iron skin) +5 (two weapon defense) +24 (ring from new quests) +15 (artifact) +10 (Heed no Pain passive) +15 (standing with stone)

    Dodge: 32 dodge% = 7 (spring Attack) + 9 (enhancements) + 10 (item) + 6 (monk)

    AC: 138 = 20% mountain stance + 10% combat expertise feat + 106 = 10 wisdom + 16 dexterity + 20 armor bonus (epic mage armor) + 8 shield + 8 protection + 9 natural armor + 4 parry insight + 6 Bulwark Aura +9 Hardened epic destiny + 5 sacred bonus unyielding sentinal +4 bulwark defense feat + 6 monk ac +1 halfling ac

    Hit Points:
    1083 = 20 (Heroic) + 10 (GH Favor) + 172 (base) + 80 (epic levels) + 70 (toughness feats) +50 gfl + 20 vitality +448 (con) +19 sacred defender +50 unyielding + 50 vigor + 15 standing with stone +50 white dragon armor set

    Skill: Intimidate
    98 = 23 Ranks + 5 enhancement + 20 competence +2 good luck +2 coin lord favor +10 charisma +5 unyielding +3 skill tome +6 exceptional cha skills +4 gh +8 epic skills levels +5 epic skill focus intimidate +6 draconic presence +3 exemplar -4 intimidate halfling
    Intolerant Blow
    Hate : 405% = 100% + 125 sacred +70 insight +100 divine righteousness +10% Exemplar

    Healing Amp: 1.3 (30% item) * 1.2 (20% item) * 1.15 (shintao core 3) * 1.10(2 past lifes) * 1.10 (ship) * 1.10 (vigor stance)
    Positive Spell Power: 298 = 114 devotion item? + 105 spell power (30 shintao+ 60 deepwood sniper + 19 sacred defender) + 75 empower healing.
    Cocoon and regenerating lay on hands.

    Fortification: 146%

    Can not Fail Reflex on 1.
    Saves: F: 82 = 17 (base) + 4 epic levels + 17 (con) + 10 resistance bonus + 3 Halflings saves and enhance +4 gh +4 insight +2 good luck + 10 charisma +3 saves for resilient defense +4 resistance aura +2 bulwark defense +2 brace for impact
    Saves R: 83 = 14 base + 4 epic levels + 16 (dex) + 10 resistance bonus + 3 Halflings saves and enhance +4 gh +4 insight +2 good luck + 10 charisma +3 saves for resilient defense +4 resistance aura +2 bulwark defense +2 epic reflexes feat +3 improved reaction +2 brace for impact
    Saves W: 69 = 11 base +4 epic levels + 10 wis + 10 resistance bonus + 3 Halflings saves and enhance +4 gh +4 insight +2 good luck + 10 charisma +3 saves for resilient defense +4 resistance aura +2 bulwark defense +2 brace for impact

    Pally Defender
    1 Holy Bastion
    1 Divine Righteousness
    1 Sacred Defense
    3 Durable Defense
    3 Inciting Defense
    3 Resilient Defense
    3 Bulwark Aura
    3 Resistance Aura
    -----
    18

    Halfling:
    2: Halfling Saves
    2: halfling dex.
    3: Acrobatic
    3: Nimble Reactions +3 dodge cap and max dex bonus
    3: Improved Dodge +3 dodge

    ----
    13

    Ninja spy
    1 ninja training
    1 faster sneaking
    3 acrobatic
    3 agility
    1 Ninja Training
    1 stealthy
    1 Shadow Veil
    ---
    11

    Tempest
    1 Shield of whirling Steel
    1 Tempest
    1 Graceful Death
    3 Improved Reaction
    6 Improved Parry
    3 Improved Dodge
    3 Improved Mobility
    ----
    18


    Shintao
    1 Bastion of Purity
    1 Protection of Tainted Creatures
    1 Iron Hand
    3 Exemplar
    1 Reed in the Wind
    2 Fists of Iron
    6 Iron Skin
    ----
    15

    Deepwood Sniper
    1 Far shot
    3 increased empathy
    1 versatile empathy
    ----
    5

    Epic Destiny
    4 Brace for Impact
    6 Con +3
    3 Endless Lay on Hands
    3 Block Energy
    3 Hardened
    2 Intolerant Blows
    2 Purify Weapons
    1 Endless Turning

    Twists
    Cacoon
    Draconic Presence
    Standing With Stone

    Gear:
    Goggles: charisma +10 of Resistance +10 (green slot: +9 natural armor)
    Helmet:: White Dragon +3 insight constitution (green slot: vitality +20)
    Trinket: Prowress +3 insight dexterity
    Armor: White Dragon Robe (blue slot: good luck)
    Cloak: shroud triple air +6 charisma skills +300 spell points.
    Bracer: parry VII and +20% healing amp
    Gloves: Epic Gloves of Claw
    Belt: +10 dexterity and +50 greater false life
    Ring 1: Guardians ring +8 strength +24 sheltering yellow slot (imperial blood)
    Ring 2: intimidate +20 of wisdom +10:
    Boots: +10 con of dodge 10%
    Celestia x2 one with devotion 114 slotted in red slot.
    Last edited by maddmatt70; 09-16-2013 at 07:26 PM.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  2. #2
    Community Member kuro_zero's Avatar
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    1) EDIT: Ninja spy should still stay centered with celestia. - was thinking of the DEX to hit/dmg ability.

    2) Fully upgraded celestia get a green slot, not red since slotting a dmg type (alighnment or metal type) would break its innate DR breaking properties. Thus you can not slot spellpower gem into one.

    3) Deft Strikes doesn't appear to work with tempest. Tested with PDK kensai centered with khopeshes and 6 rgr and was not getting 100% off hand with tempest core 2 and deft strikes. WAI or bug dunno - submitted a bug report anyway.
    Last edited by kuro_zero; 09-08-2013 at 10:00 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuro_zero View Post
    1) EDIT: Ninja spy should still stay centered with celestia. - was thinking of the DEX to hit/dmg ability.

    2) Fully upgraded celestia get a green slot, not red since slotting a dmg type (alighnment or metal type) would break its innate DR breaking properties. Thus you can not slot spellpower gem into one.

    3) Deft Strikes doesn't appear to work with tempest. Tested with PDK kensai centered with khopeshes and 6 rgr and was not getting 100% off hand with tempest core 2 and deft strikes. WAI or bug dunno - submitted a bug report anyway.
    I quite probably will have to drop deft strikes for something else - I had a feeling that would not work - tempest core 3 costs 1 pt and deft costs 6 so core 3 wins. The 114 positive spell power will probably have to wait for another short sword I am surprised that the new short sword elemental fury does not have a red slot - that hardly makes sense. I could have gone with celestia and elemental fury perhaps.

    Made several other errors in here. Tanks are so complex now - you have a zillion things to keep track of.
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  4. #4
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    46 dex (10) + 7 levels ups +4 tome + 3 insight + 10 item +3 insight dex +1 racial enhancement +2 ship -2 mountain
    This only adds up to 38 and you have insight listed twice.

  5. #5
    Community Member kuro_zero's Avatar
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    Actually looking closer at your build, yes my original point about ninja spy applies. Celestia has no pierce/slash damage component and therefore does not work with ninja spy's ability to add DEX to-hit and DMG with it.

    Possible alternative is taking weapon finesse and getting Improved Weapon Finesse in one of the ranger trees (DWS I think).
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  6. #6
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuro_zero View Post
    Actually looking closer at your build, yes my original point about ninja spy applies. Celestia has no pierce/slash damage component and therefore does not work with ninja spy's ability to add DEX to-hit and DMG with it.

    Possible alternative is taking weapon finesse and getting Improved Weapon Finesse in one of the ranger trees (DWS I think).
    This build has graceful death from the tempest tree which provides would provide dex to damage. I will probably have to swap out two weapon defense for weapon finesse which would put the prr at 135 which is worth it because the celestia overcomes the dr on dracoliches..
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  7. #7
    Community Member Willan's Avatar
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    Improved Dodge from two different enhancement trees does not stack (Halfling and Tempest).

  8. #8
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willan View Post
    Improved Dodge from two different enhancement trees does not stack (Halfling and Tempest).
    It should stack espcially since we are talking about racial and class enhancements. It must be a bug if it does not stack or there is an issue with your dodge cap.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #9
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    Don't forget to include the -4 racial penalty to Intimidate for halflings.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Physical Resistance: 140 = 25 (sacred defense) + 15 (grandmaster forms) + 15 (improved parry tempest) + 15 (iron skin) +5 (two weapon defense) +26 (ring from new quests) +14 (artifact) +10 (Heed no Pain passive) +15 (standing with stone)
    Guardian's Ring is 24 PRR (not 26). Improved Parry is 10 PRR (not 15). Planar Conflux is 15 PRR (not 14).

    AC: 126
    What does this translate to in terms of epic elite mobs missing you? I'm trying to understand where the tipping point is for AC in Shadowfell EE content.

    Hit Points: 70 (toughness feats)
    Toughness + Epic Toughness is 80 HP (not 70).

    Healing Amp: 1.3 (30% item) * 1.2 (20% item) * 1.15 (shintao core 3) * 1.10(2 past lifes) * 1.05 (ship) * 1.10 (vigor stance)
    Ship is 10% healing amp.

    Ninja spy
    1 ninja training
    1 faster sneaking
    3 acrobatic
    3 agility
    ---
    8
    It deserves 3 more points for Shadow Veil. 25% Incorporeality is amazing survivability.

    Gear:
    Goggles: charisma +10 of Resistance +10 (color slot: imperial blood)
    Belt: +10 dexterity and +45 greater false life
    Ring 1: Guardians ring +8 strength +24 sheltering green slot (+9 natural armor)
    Celestia x2 one with devotion 114 slotted in red slot.
    From what I've seen so far, PREFIX 10 of SUFFIX 10 items must be ML28 wondrous crafting which cannot have a slot. If you can confirm seeing a 10 of 10 item with a slot, I'd love to know.

    10 DEX of 50 HP is possible for the belt.

    The ring has a yellow slot, not green.

    There's no easy solution for slotting Devotion/Potency. You'd have to gear around Halcyon Boots for 80 Potency.

    It's a pretty cool build, nice job.
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  11. #11
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Guardian's Ring is 24 PRR (not 26). Improved Parry is 10 PRR (not 15). Planar Conflux is 15 PRR (not 14).


    What does this translate to in terms of epic elite mobs missing you? I'm trying to understand where the tipping point is for AC in Shadowfell EE content.


    Toughness + Epic Toughness is 80 HP (not 70).


    Ship is 10% healing amp.


    It deserves 3 more points for Shadow Veil. 25% Incorporeality is amazing survivability.


    From what I've seen so far, PREFIX 10 of SUFFIX 10 items must be ML28 wondrous crafting which cannot have a slot. If you can confirm seeing a 10 of 10 item with a slot, I'd love to know.

    10 DEX of 50 HP is possible for the belt.

    The ring has a yellow slot, not green.

    There's no easy solution for slotting Devotion/Potency. You'd have to gear around Halcyon Boots for 80 Potency.

    It's a pretty cool build, nice job.
    Thanks for the comments and yeah I made a gadzillion errors although hopefully people got the overall concept. Builds, especially tank builds have gotten so complicated with so many details. My old guildie Darkstaar when he was playing was very good at capturing all the details - too bad he is not playing.

    I have seen a +10 stat and +10% dodge I think although I would have to verify, but otherwise gear needs tweaking. I am pretty sure I have a +10 charisma and +10 resistance item. I agree with the shadow veil. I am going to have to figure out a way to fit that in the two things I noticed is a: no incorpreality/blur and b: fitting in the healing power someway.

    Edit: if I switch perfect two weapon fighting out and swap in epic mage armor I hit a 138 ac. hmm that probably would be a 30% to hit miss on ee or something like that. I have to rearrange the gear and test the dodge, but what have you will get to it. This character is currently 18 but will get to him in a week or two.
    Last edited by maddmatt70; 09-10-2013 at 12:11 AM.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    A couple of questions.

    1) Why 8 monk and not 8 paladin? What are you getting from the extra monk levels? It looks like Shadow Veil which is pretty useful I'll admit. But, after that I can't see what it is you are getting.

    2) Why DEX based? Losing the 7 stat increases costs 3 AC and 3 reflex save. Dropping 2 build points in DEX costs another 1 in each. Doing so lets you go STR focused instead and allows possible inclusion of Power Attack. Does the character really need the 4 AC?

    I realize that this build is focused on epic content and anticipates a new raid. On a somewhat similar build I was only able to raise maximum dodge to 31%. I believe Willan is correct that different sources of improved dodge do not stack.

  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Edit: if I switch perfect two weapon fighting out and swap in epic mage armor I hit a 138 ac. hmm that probably would be a 30% to hit miss on ee or something like that. .
    No way in hell that's a 30% miss unless the to-hits of the mobs drop significantly from GH.

  14. #14
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    A couple of questions.

    1) Why 8 monk and not 8 paladin? What are you getting from the extra monk levels? It looks like Shadow Veil which is pretty useful I'll admit. But, after that I can't see what it is you are getting.
    Well I am not sure what you get from 8 paladin. 8 monk does give +2 to all saves which is nice for the will save, but I believe I might have to reduce this character's save gear in order to fit in some of the above gear regardless my suspicions for the new raid is saves potentially in the low 80s might be the threshold for it. Another nice feature of having super saves is if I need to chug silver flame pots having a higher save is advantageous because you can still succeed on the saves despite teh stats being lowered. I did this in ee gianthold tor on the blue dragon fight on a previous build. I could keep myself up while tanking the blue dragon in the electrical fields with silver flame pots.
    2) Why DEX based? Losing the 7 stat increases costs 3 AC and 3 reflex save. Dropping 2 build points in DEX costs another 1 in each. Doing so lets you go STR focused instead and allows possible inclusion of Power Attack. Does the character really need the 4 AC?
    Power attack is another feat that I would have to spend which adds only a little dps and would prevent me from having combat expertise equipped. See above for reflex saves. To be honest I do not see much advantage to strength based on a tank build other then if the tank had a high tactics score for sunder and stunning blow or for qualitfying for momentum swing/lay waste on S& B build (would need power attack/cleave/great cleave for that). On twf or unarmed tank should always go dex basd.
    I realize that this build is focused on epic content and anticipates a new raid. On a somewhat similar build I was only able to raise maximum dodge to 31%. I believe Willan is correct that different sources of improved dodge do not stack.
    Well it is a bug. It is no different then if Human healing amp did not stack with the shintao or the pally amp. I do wonder though about the text in the halfling dodge cap (it almost implies only for armor or something like that).
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  15. #15
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    No way in hell that's a 30% miss unless the to-hits of the mobs drop significantly from GH.
    I disagree with yeah here. I need to test, but I do think a 138 ac is about a 30% miss chance. One thing that should be pointed out about AC is I think that dodge and incorpeality get checked first and ac is the third progression check.
    What I mean is mob attacks:
    1. missed due to incorpreality.
    2. if mob does not miss due to incorpeality it then could miss due to dodge.
    3. if mob does not miss due to dodge or incorpeality it then could miss due to ac.
    4. mob hits.

    I have not tested the above either but it can be tested by removing dodge and incorpeality gear and then wearing them and taking data measures.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I think that dodge and incorpeality get checked first and ac is the third progression check.
    First, thanks for previous answers.

    Second, the order that hit/miss gets checked should have no impact on whether the final result is a hit or a miss. I'm pretty sure that mathematically it does not matter.

    Just a simple example. Say 50% miss due to AC, 20% due to concealment, 25% due to dodge comparing 100 attacks.

    100*(1-.5)=50*(1-.2)=40*(1-.25)=30 (AC check first, then concealment, then dodge).

    100*(1-.25)=75*(1-.5)=37.5*(1-.2)=30 (dodge check first, then AC, then concealment).

    As long as the attack measures a hit it gets checked against whatever is next in queue but it doesn't matter what the order is in the queue.

    Lastly, I'm not sure that non-stacking dodge is an error. There are many things in DDO that do stack and many that do not. However, I haven't checked it closely so it could be that this is worry over nothing at all. It just seemed to me from previous characters when playing around on Lamannia that the different improved dodges did not stack.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    and b: fitting in the healing power someway.
    Epic Mask of Comedy was pretty strong pre-U19...haven't checked mine after (I'm on a life for which it doesn't matter).

  18. #18
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Lastly, I'm not sure that non-stacking dodge is an error. There are many things in DDO that do stack and many that do not. However, I haven't checked it closely so it could be that this is worry over nothing at all. It just seemed to me from previous characters when playing around on Lamannia that the different improved dodges did not stack.
    Check the release notes, this is an error. I wish it wasn't . . .

    Good luck to you on that 138 AC working. 150 AC saw SOME misses against EE GH trash, few misses from EE low-level quest trash, and no missed from EE LOB or Truthful One. It did yield some misses from EE Lailat for what it's worth.

  19. #19
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    First, thanks for previous answers.

    Second, the order that hit/miss gets checked should have no impact on whether the final result is a hit or a miss. I'm pretty sure that mathematically it does not matter.

    Just a simple example. Say 50% miss due to AC, 20% due to concealment, 25% due to dodge comparing 100 attacks.

    100*(1-.5)=50*(1-.2)=40*(1-.25)=30 (AC check first, then concealment, then dodge).

    100*(1-.25)=75*(1-.5)=37.5*(1-.2)=30 (dodge check first, then AC, then concealment).
    I agree with you it does not matter from a mathematical standpoint, but when you see the text in game and it checks incorpeality first and it says so and so was missed due to incorpeality and dodge after that then that leaves the player with the impression that ac does not matter as much as it does and the mobs are hitting a higher % then they are when it comes to AC. I had a 130 ac on a previous tank in the MOTU epic elites and I got missed at least 30% if not more. I think that players undercut the value ac brings. I had a non tank build that had a crazy goal of 90% total damage mitigation which a part of which inolved getting an ac that mattered some to reduce a small % of damage taken.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I had a 130 ac on a previous tank in the MOTU epic elites and I got missed at least 30% if not more.
    Motu EE yes, you'll see some misses from trash. Some it the old epic.

    The to-hits went up a lot in the high-road.

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