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  1. #1
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    Default All weapons, armor, shields have prefixes and suffixes

    Whatever happened to the plain jane +5 Battle Plate?

    Looks like Turbine was in a hurry to tell us all about retributive armor and shields, and weapons of riposte or weapons of deception.

    You do realize that D&D has just +5 armor and weapons?
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  2. #2
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    What would be the point of intentionally generating obviously terrible items?

    Especially when they sell those terrible items in the store!

  3. #3
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomooprincess View Post
    You do realize that D&D has just +5 armor and weapons?
    Keep in mind that Eberron is a very magic heavy setting. To the point where basic magical items are commonplace.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    What would be the point of intentionally generating obviously terrible items?

    Especially when they sell those terrible items in the store!
    The problem isn't that they are not making items with no prefixes or suffixes, but rather that they are not making any items that do not have both a prefix AND a suffix. There was a time when you could find a vorpal great axe at level 10. With the new system vorpal should be found on a level 8 great axe (since they lowered how many levels it adds). But that is only true if you can find a weapon with just a prefix or just a suffix but not both. Instead every weapon has both a prefix and a suffix and those prefixes and suffixes are only 1 level apart, so in order for an item to have vorpal (a +4 effect) it must also have another +3, 4, or 5 effect on it and thus the level is raised greatly. I have not found any of the insta-killing effects on weapons below level 18.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    The problem isn't that they are not making items with no prefixes or suffixes, but rather that they are not making any items that do not have both a prefix AND a suffix. There was a time when you could find a vorpal great axe at level 10. With the new system vorpal should be found on a level 8 great axe (since they lowered how many levels it adds). But that is only true if you can find a weapon with just a prefix or just a suffix but not both. Instead every weapon has both a prefix and a suffix and those prefixes and suffixes are only 1 level apart, so in order for an item to have vorpal (a +4 effect) it must also have another +3, 4, or 5 effect on it and thus the level is raised greatly. I have not found any of the insta-killing effects on weapons below level 18.
    they are still out there just hard to find.

    I'm hunting Deadly items for TRing with only deadly on them. I want the highest Deadly effect on the lowest possible so no additional suffix and I have found a few but, not exactly what I'm looking for.

    I am not sure what min lvl a Deadly X item with nothing else on it would be but, I'm very curious.

  6. #6
    Scourge of Slayers FAQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    they are still out there just hard to find.

    I'm hunting Deadly items for TRing with only deadly on them. I want the highest Deadly effect on the lowest possible so no additional suffix and I have found a few but, not exactly what I'm looking for.

    I am not sure what min lvl a Deadly X item with nothing else on it would be but, I'm very curious.
    I grabbed a cloak with only Deadly VI on it for my TR. Min level 11.

  7. #7
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    I am not sure what min lvl a Deadly X item with nothing else on it would be but, I'm very curious.
    I doubt you'll find one due to two basic concepts. First, that certain tiers are going to be Epic-only. Second, that the enhancement value they add to an item won't be sufficient by themselves to make up the total enhancement required for an Epic item. Simply put if Deadly X were valued at +10, but Epic requires at least a +15 enhancement total then you will never find it by itself.
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  8. #8
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    I've seen +X affixless items, but I'm sure the probability of rolling them gets exponentially smaller as the level goes up and you get more and more other possible affixes to draw. But that's not new, that's always been the case - around L8 or 10, you pretty much stop finding unaffixed gear in chests or quest rewards.

    I've definitely seen one-affix gear, at least at mid-level, where it should be (I imagine Deadly with no suffix will be popular for leveling, max your damage bonus at-level). By endgame, no one affix is going to completely fill out the enchantment bonus alone...

    Luckily, you can still CRAFT a plain +5 whatever, if you're just interested in maxing your armor bonus.

  9. #9
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    they are still out there just hard to find.

    I'm hunting Deadly items for TRing with only deadly on them. I want the highest Deadly effect on the lowest possible so no additional suffix and I have found a few but, not exactly what I'm looking for.

    I am not sure what min lvl a Deadly X item with nothing else on it would be but, I'm very curious.
    Guildie linked us a Deadly +5 helm. That's it, Deadly +5. ML11, and was commenting about how it was 99% of what made the EE Dream Visor worthwhile at less than half the ML.

  10. #10
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    What would be the point of intentionally generating obviously terrible items?

    Especially when they sell those terrible items in the store!
    Simple It's about gear choices and how the Minimum level on items works. A two affix ML7 items is often far less useful than a single affix ML7 item. False Life +20 ML7, versus Dex +2 False Life +5, or Dex +1 False Life +10. D&D ML system simply doesn't generate great random items with more than 1 affix, because when you combine two the ML usually goes up more than the sum of the two affixes really merits. This is especially true a low levels where almost all 2 affix gear is junk that will never be worn. Examples include Stat gear (+4 STR ML7 etc.).

    Also often builds make best use of certain affixes more than others. A +5 Tower Shield is highly desirable to an AC build, whereas a +1 Tower with two affixes that aren't compensating for the +4 AC are very undesirable.

    A +1 Paralyzer with nothing else is by far the best Paralyzer the game has to offer because it can be used AT LEAST 2 levels sooner, in content where stuff is actually vulnerable to it. Whereas a Paralyzer with a bunch of stuff on it at level 18 is trash loot, because nearly every mob in the game at 20th level quests (which you do at 18th level for BB natch) makes it's save and barely anything ever gets paralyzed.

    A plain +5 weapon is far more desirable than a +1 Flaming 1d6 weapon, for some builds, because it's an average of 5 damage and +5 to hit, where the other one is an average of 4.5 but only +1 to hit. It's also 5 damage that is not resisted by fire resistant mobs. And 5 damage that can help break the DR of a mob, because it's part of base damage unlike the 1d6 fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Guildie linked us a Deadly +5 helm. That's it, Deadly +5. ML11, and was commenting about how it was 99% of what made the EE Dream Visor worthwhile at less than half the ML.
    I looted a Deadly 5 last night with a Dex -1 curse on it that is ML7, I put it on immediately, it might be the first piece of random loot that I actually put on in the middle of a quest in the years I've been playing DDO.

    That happens all the time in games like Diablo... it's not really a thing in DDO... maybe it should become more of a thing, but they need to add the other stuff back into the new random loot.

  11. #11
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Simple It's about gear choices and how the Minimum level on items works. A two affix ML7 items is often far less useful than a single affix ML7 item.
    I certainly understand the desirability of single affix items, which still drop. No-affix items, which are what the OP is about, are very questionable, however.

    Also often builds make best use of certain affixes more than others. A +5 Tower Shield is highly desirable to an AC build, whereas a +1 Tower with two affixes that aren't compensating for the +4 AC are very undesirable.
    AC isn't that valuable anymore. A naked +5 is very unlikely to be a better choice than a +3 or +4 with decent affixes.

    A plain +5 weapon is far more desirable than a +1 Flaming 1d6 weapon, for some builds, because it's an average of 5 damage and +5 to hit, where the other one is an average of 4.5 but only +1 to hit. It's also 5 damage that is not resisted by fire resistant mobs. And 5 damage that can help break the DR of a mob, because it's part of base damage unlike the 1d6 fire.
    To hit isn't that valuable anymore.

    And +5 vs +1 flaming I isn't a fair comparison. The +5 is almost always strictly better, but it has a much higher ML. Compare +5 to +4 flaming I, and the +5 is highly unlikely to come out on top in any but the most contrived situations. And in those situations, a +4 of something else is probably better.

  12. #12
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    What would be the point of intentionally generating obviously terrible items?

    Especially when they sell those terrible items in the store!
    To have a really good prefix or really good sufix so the ML of the item is lower. Previous to the expansion the harbor was dropping lacerating weapons, which is only a suffix, and has ML of 2.

  13. #13
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    AC isn't that valuable anymore. A naked +5 is very unlikely to be a better choice than a +3 or +4 with decent affixes.
    AC is still valuable in heroics, and twinking a TR to run through that stuff faster still has value for people. Its when we get to EE tha AC has no value.

  14. #14
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    I doubt you'll find one due to two basic concepts. First, that certain tiers are going to be Epic-only. Second, that the enhancement value they add to an item won't be sufficient by themselves to make up the total enhancement required for an Epic item. Simply put if Deadly X were valued at +10, but Epic requires at least a +15 enhancement total then you will never find it by itself.
    please share your source for this information because I have seen no such info in release notes.

  15. #15
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    To the OP: I've had plain +X items drop several times in the last couple days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    AC is still valuable in heroics
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Good one.

  16. #16
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    I certainly understand the desirability of single affix items, which still drop. No-affix items, which are what the OP is about, are very questionable, however.
    I'm not going to argue with you about what you subjectively value, single affix versus double affix versus no affix with a high enhancement value is the same thing just degree of difference.

    Your original statement just amounts to the same thing either way, "why is anything less than uber loot ever dropped" and the answer as I said is that there are often permutations where the "less uber" but lower ML version lets you do what you set out to do with your build, as an example a Cannith crafted shield with nothing but devotion on it, or nothing but the highest enhancement bonus to max out AC as much as possible (which you don't value) same concept, just the player focusing on what they want to focus on. Whether you find it worthy of focusing on is totally irrelevant.

    Ultimately your question logically extended works out to: Why is there "sub optimal" loot.

  17. #17
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    AC is still valuable in heroics, and twinking a TR to run through that stuff faster still has value for people. Its when we get to EE tha AC has no value.
    On hindsight I wish I hadn't bothered with his question as it was clearly just an attempt to assert how uber he is and how anything he wouldn't put on his character should just be stricken from the game.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    please share your source for this information because I have seen no such info in release notes.
    The concept is based off some thought and observations I have made over the years while examining randomly generated loot. Especially the prefixes and suffixes added by MOTU. How many Convalescent items were there? Have you ever seen an item where the effect was by itself? Typically it either has Parrying in some form or a skill bonus. But never by itself. To me this implies that the enhancement value each effect has is simply too low by itself to make up the total enhancement value required to have an Epic item.

    As for the concept that everything has to be stated in the release notes to be understood, that's simply not true. Shroud in its original form never had info as to how to build which effects. They were discovered and documented entirely by the community. The Shroud altars that exist now were created both because Shroud is no longer end game and because the info is already completely understood.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 09-06-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    The concept is based off some thought and observations I have made over the years while examining randomly generated loot. Especially the prefixes and suffixes added by MOTU. How many Convalescent items were there? Have you ever seen an item where the effect was by itself? Typically it either has Parrying in some form or a skill bonus. But never by itself. To me this implies that the enhancement value each effect has is simply too low by itself to make up the total enhancement value required to have an Epic item.

    As for the concept that everything has to be stated in the release notes to be understood, that's simply not true. Shroud in its original form never had info as to how to build which effects. They were discovered and documented entirely by the community. The Shroud altars that exist now were created both because Shroud is no longer end game and because the info is already completely understood.
    your not wrong about Shroud however its may be too soon to apply observations to gear changes that have been completely revamped as of U19 the years of examining random gen is out the window with a whole new set of rules.

    Deadly VI +6 min lvl 11 is the highest single effect I have seen to date.

    Deadly V +5 (Cursed) min lvl 13 w/ colorless + yellow slot is will probably be the one that makes its home in my TR builds if that's as good as it gets without going epic for now.


    I'll keep watch for anything better always looking for a twink item just better than what I've got.

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