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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    You experienced a disruption of service, which you agreed they are not responsible for.
    Word of advice: take a screenshot of that webpage. That way the next time they alter the terms of service, those alterations are not binding.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    You might want to READ what you are linking:

    You experienced a disruption of service, which you agreed they are not responsible for.
    Thanks, didn't catch that. Which is why I posted the link so people can correct me.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    Word of advice: take a screenshot of that webpage. That way the next time they alter the terms of service, those alterations are not binding.
    There's phrasing in there that lets them change it and make it binding provided you continue playing. I don't see any useful action from this unless you prepaid for a long subscription and want to get out of it.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by golruul View Post
    There's phrasing in there that lets them change it and make it binding provided you continue playing. I don't see any useful action from this unless you prepaid for a long subscription and want to get out of it.
    Yep section 2, which contradicts the statement in the miscellaneous section, or that latter statement at the end contradicts section 2. Regardless, it is a very sloppy piece of legal writing which allows for such obvious contradictions over such a crucial issue as consideration.

    And for the mods reading this post, let me stress I would like to abide by your terms and conditions, yet in order to abide by section 2 means I cannot consider the miscellaneous statement as anyway binding, yet if I am abide by the miscellaneous statement, I cannot abide the statements in section 2 as being valid. Which means by reading the agreement as currently written I cannot agree to it in its entirety and I really want to do that since I want to play your game.

    Please realize that this is due to my insufficient lack of reasoning abilities and obvious poor understanding of the English language.

    Please moderators, can you help me with my conundrum?

  5. #65
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    dont know what happened and I also understand that devs dont want to tell the whole truth. What I know is that first service which has been unavaiable was the update site. This persisted even when ddo has been reopened. Turbine simply created a new update site and redirected the launcher to it. it only needed to restart launcher to force it update its configuration files. I dont know, which hosting stopped to work and i only guess that Turbine had to have to find a new hosting and upload all files there in the very short time.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art19), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic6)

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Also, for perspective, the average VIP subscriber is paying $10/month (some $15, some $8). For that average $10/month person, a 1.5 day outage is 50 cents worth of service. I'd offer you a roll of pennies as compensation but my country just removed pennies from circulation.
    Not all time is equal. If the game is down in the middle of a U.S. week day, it won't affect as many people as the game being down on a weekend day or even worse on a holiday weekend day. So I have to disagree with your valuation.

    This is also why people who work hourly get paid more for working on weekends and even more for holidays.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    (snip)

    So how far down the chain is Turbine responsible? Their servers were up. Their software was working. Their datacenter was up. Their own provider was up and running. Beyond that, something went wrong. So if you think that Turbine is responsible for a third party down line from their datacenter and their provider, I was wondering if it would include YOUR ISP as well. Because essentially, it was this exact situation that occurred, except it wasn't your specific ISP, it was someone else's provider. Not yours. Not Turbines. Is that reasonable enough for you?
    Snipped part was debate caused by changing of seller/shipper in two scenarios. I don't think there's anything to debate for that and argument was caused by confusion. More interesting and relevant is quoted part above.

    Yes, I continue to believe it's Turbine's responsibility until they show me something along the lines of me being at fault. So, for instance, interaction would begin with me contacting their support and getting escalated until eventually they ask for a trace route. I would provide that. If then they come back and show that the problem is on my end (as in, the packets I send aren't even getting to them or their ISP), then the problem and responsibility falls to me and Turbine is in the clear (in my view). If my packets get to them, are processed, and are then sent a response that gets lost, then it's back to being Turbine's responsibility.

  8. #68
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golruul View Post
    Yes, I continue to believe it's Turbine's responsibility until they show me something along the lines of me being at fault. So, for instance, interaction would begin with me contacting their support and getting escalated until eventually they ask for a trace route. I would provide that. If then they come back and show that the problem is on my end (as in, the packets I send aren't even getting to them or their ISP), then the problem and responsibility falls to me and Turbine is in the clear (in my view). If my packets get to them, are processed, and are then sent a response that gets lost, then it's back to being Turbine's responsibility.
    This is, in fact, exactly what was happening. The packets were getting lost PART WAY to Turbine. Not on your ISP, but not on their provider either. There were multiple posts in these forums by users detailing their trace routes to prove this. Which is also how many of us know where the fault lies.

    It seems to me that you are arguing if it isn't YOUR provider, then everything else is Turbine's fault. Well Turbine doesn't own all the rest of the Internet, there are many many hops in between your network and their network.

  9. #69
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Not all time is equal.
    Actually it's not even really the loss of play time = money that concerns me, since the amount is next to nothing. My problem is that Turbine can't give me another day off work to make up for the day off I was going to spend playing. lol

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    More that the info was posted here dozens of times by folks who discovered it over there and immediately brought it over here. They worked faster than me, and since the cause was being widely distributed, and came from an official Turbine voice, it seemed unnecessary to copy/paste it here myself.
    The problem with that idea is that average joe user does not show up in the Dev Tracker so the information is not very findable.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Actually it's not even really the loss of play time = money that concerns me, since the amount is next to nothing. My problem is that Turbine can't give me another day off work to make up for the day off I was going to spend playing. lol
    Exactly.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    It seems to me that you are arguing if it isn't YOUR provider, then everything else is Turbine's fault. Well Turbine doesn't own all the rest of the Internet, there are many many hops in between your network and their network.
    Just so I'm clear, if a paid service isn't working correctly and the company cannot show me that I'm (and by extension, my ISP) causing the problem, then by default it's the company's responsibility. It may not be their fault, but it's their responsibility to do something about it. One option is to pursue the issue and get it resolved. Another option is to stop providing service to the customer.

    So far it looks like Turbine took responsibility for customers not being able to use their service (even though it wasn't their fault), pursued the issue, and resolved it (for now at least). This is what I would expect from a paid service, and they delivered.

  13. #73
    Community Member Arianka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    What would it take to get Sapience over to the DDO side? I really like the way that he communicates with the player base. Also the LOTRO Facebook and Twitter accounts were a much better source for information regarding the outage than any of the DDO related sites (Except the Forum Which Shall Not Be Named which, ironically, got the info from the LOTRO guy.)

    And you seem to love to quote him too. He must be doing something right!
    Sapience good, Cordovan not. Is that wat ur saying?

  14. #74
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    Default Thanls Cordovan - and to other repliers...

    Thanks for the snippet and the reference, Cordovan. I had not considered checking the LOTRO forums.

    I religiously follow the Dev Tracker in this forum so if this happens again *shudder* could you please post a link here so O'll know where to look?

    Thanks!

    (And I hope they gave you the day after off...or at least flex time.)

    To the readers of this thread: Look, something big happened, and the one fellow we rely on to inform us (and for all we know he does it voluntarily) was overwhelmed (I would be) and thinking from a Turbine Wide perspective. All we need to do is ask nice for the next time and move on.

    I have felt the way internet service is provided, in fact many services and products are provided, are based on a purposefully engineered lack of information to glean the most money out of the unknowing consumer, but that's not Turbine's fault nor their employees.

    If I were Turbine's provider, though, I would be having a few words with THEIR provider. Probably not regulated.

    Unbridled capitalism, the wild west. At least in DDO we know the rules and they don't change and we stand a chance.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    No company will readily tell their customers where they buy from and much less will the companies they buy from tell them where they in turn buy from. It's inviting bankruptcy, because customers would just directly go to the companies they know their contractor buys from as it increases the profit margin.

    There's a very good reason why customer/provider lists are often considered trade secrets and employees are required to sign NDAs about that specific knowkedge or given compensation to stay quiet about it.

    lol wat? So if I know who turbines data supplier is I can go and make my own DDO for cheaper? I see your knowledge of how business actually works is zero...

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Actually it's not even really the loss of play time = money that concerns me, since the amount is next to nothing. My problem is that Turbine can't give me another day off work to make up for the day off I was going to spend playing. lol

    I had to spend the day working in the yard with the wife and mother-in-law. There is no earthly way I can be compensated for that!

  17. #77
    Community Member Turtlsdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Sure it certainly is. Notice UPS is responsible, not the company who sold the product that did not get delivered. If you want to try and sue the provider for your missed DDO play time, good luck.




    So if your ISP went down, Turbine is still responsible to somehow let you connect to their servers and play?
    Just to pipe in and derail a bit. If you get a refund from UPS after your package is delayed due to severe weather, you got really lucky with their customer service. As a general rule, UPS is not obligated and won't offer refunds if the delay is due to bad weather.

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,
    This is where we are now. Ride the walrus, or drown in its wake
    Thanks.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    ^^

    After the second time, they should have dropped them or at least asked for a guarantee that it would not happen again...they are a business that requires a consistent ISP to survive.

    As far as compensation...we pay Turbine for a service as VIPs...same as Turbine pays the ISP for service...you don't think Turbine is looking for compensation? Heck this is approaching a legal matter for them after the 3rd time.
    The most it should be for any VIP is .50 a day and most will pay less

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I seriously doubt that even if Turbine gave us an Excuse for the Outage we'd believe it - Well there'd be conspiracy theories all over the place!


    As for Compensation...
    They could very easily stick a 500TP Code {only Usable on Adventure Packs/Guest Passes} in the Inventory of the Next Logged In Character of Every Non-VIP. {Or Mailbox if Inventory is an Issue}.

    VIPs could get a Double Bonus TP Month.
    500 tp for 2 days is a bit much

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    Word of advice: take a screenshot of that webpage. That way the next time they alter the terms of service, those alterations are not binding.
    Try again it says right in there it can change at any time without notice

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

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